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Originally Posted by Dustmen
Doors should be locked, home owners should be aggressive, and danger should be associated with every uninvited entry a party makes.

This. I always hated in BG1 that you could enter 99% of the houses uninvited and there would be no consequences, no guards, no one told you to get the hell out. It's like:''Hi! I'm just exploring to see if there's anything to loot, don't mind me :)''

Last edited by Gt27mustang; 29/03/22 01:09 PM.
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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Dustmen
Doors should be locked, home owners should be aggressive, and danger should be associated with every uninvited entry a party makes.
By modern standard yes, but people weren't always so distrustful at least in certain parts of the world.
"In certain parts of the words" they arent even now. wink


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I have no need or desire to be able to enter every single building in BG. We should be able to enter (many of) the public buildings - shops, inns, churches, jails, etc- but aside from those, only the houses that contain quest-relevant people/items should to be accessible.

I think I'd also prefer if BG was split up into different maps you can fast travel between rather than a single continuous map. In the case of a single map, either 1.) an underwhelmingly small BG will result in areas that should have distinct atmospheres being crammed too close together, or 2.) an appropriately large BG won't be very fun to navigate. While walking around Novigrad in TW3 is very immersive due to the perspective/single PC/control scheme, walking through a humongous city in BG3 will be more of a point->click->wait tedium.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
"In certain parts of the words" they arent even now. wink
True, but Baldur's Gate doesn't exist now and in real world. I would say that a more imporportant consideration is how Larian wants Baldur's Gate to feel. I don't mind exploring a bit more idyllic universe. But considering how much of an ass NPCs in BG3 are, perhaps they should become hostile not only if you try to pop in to say hi, but even if you loiter for too long in front of their property.

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Agreed ...
I would not even mind some people become "preventively hostile" ... not by attacking of course, but lack of racism (even tho i understand its a thorny topic) really bothers me ... so i would actualy appreciate if some people would yell at my Tiefling/Drow/Half-Orc to keep my distance from their property, or there will be throubles. :3

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 29/03/22 06:23 PM.

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I don't believe we have seen all of chapter 1 yet, and there will be 3 chapters. I am pleased with "massive".

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and again, day night would be the perfect solution to appease both those wanting to enter every house and those demanding consequences for that.
a) enter house during day --> occupant walks up to intruder and asks to leave, if not leaving immediately NPC asks one more time , then after x-seconds guards appear which you can either follow outside, pay bribe or agro
b) enter house during night, NPC's sleep, so opportunity to sneak around and loot but if noticed or fail at stealth, occupants will wake up, notice and immediately go aggro/call guards.

No ? smile

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Size is one thing, pacing and content handling another. Talking about classic BG, Kingdom Come Deliverance reminded me a lot of BG1, except taken a step further.

-It's world is generally neither an amusement/theme park (Bethesda school of design), nor a movie setpiece (Bioware school of design).
-Places exist not merely to feed the player a new quest, loot or enemies, but because they exist, as they would in the world (which makes things also less predictable, as a hut in a forest may be jsut that, a hut, whereas in most games that hut is specifically placed there for the player to discover something in)
-Every house in a city/settlement is enterable, however, inhabitants may actually object if you enter private territory

As a consequence, both kinda feel like actual worlds, as opposed to something existing solely for the player to toy around with/in and/or advancing plot and character.

To this day outside of KCD I've rarely played a game that feels much like BG1, which is of course because the majority found BG1, in particular the wilderness areas to be empty and boring (KCD is even more extreme than this, and the devs are well aware it is not made for everyone, 34:15).


Larian's world design firmly fits the theme park mold, btw. Not only do you stumple upon another NPC, location or combat at least every ten feet or so. It's also heavily compressed and condensed, as druid groves happily sit right next do damp dungeons, which in turn sit right next to goblin camps, etc. Technically, their maps are quite big, but due to the compressed and packed nature, it doesn't always quite feel like it.


As such I'm curious what their vision of BG as a city will be like. One of the more "ingenious" aspects of BG1 in turn was the stark contrast feeling you had when you finally could enter Baldur's Gate, which is comparable late into the game's campaign. Rather than adventuring oft barren plaines, woods and mountains, you suddenly had a place that was busy with stuff to the hilt. Obviously BG3 is gonna be a bit different in that regard. Curious what it will be like nonetheless.

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"One of the more "ingenious" aspects of BG1 in turn was the stark contrast feeling you had when you finally could enter Baldur's Gate, which is comparable late into the game's campaign. Rather than adventuring oft barren plaines, woods and mountains, you suddenly had a place that was busy with stuff to the hilt."

That is an excellent observation! I recall that the people who were complaining the most about the open space exploration (Draconis, et. al.) were doing so only after they had played the game several times. When the areas are totally new and you don't know what is coming, the feeling of exploration is awesome. And yes, then when you gain access to BG City, the feel changes completely (in a good way).

Contrast and dynamics are an important part of any type of art. The pastorale sections in a musical piece add to the emotional impact of the more dramatic sections ... like in Rush's awesome song, Red Barchetta.

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I have developed a strong dislike of dense population hubs in RPGs. You tend to be bombarded by so many new quests, they degenerate into a check-list hunt where each new quest diminishes the one before. In short; too much gawd damned much talking and reading, and too little action! Hopefully the developers are mindful of this.

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Picking up quests at a quest hub before heading out to cross them off and return for your reward is bad quest design, not a problem with cities.

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My favorite quest design in the entire BG series (so far!) was the adventure with Narlen Darkwalk. He actually comes with you on several thief capers, and then he takes action on his own back the Guild office. So different from most of the other quest-givers. I would have loved to keep bumping into him in other areas, even just to exchange pleasantries and some Cant dialog.

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Originally Posted by Gt27mustang
Originally Posted by Dustmen
Doors should be locked, home owners should be aggressive, and danger should be associated with every uninvited entry a party makes.

This. I always hated in BG1 that you could enter 99% of the houses uninvited and there would be no consequences, no guards, no one told you to get the hell out. It's like:''Hi! I'm just exploring to see if there's anything to loot, don't mind me :)''

I adored (and still adore) that decision; it makes the world feels fantastic.

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Originally Posted by Ragitsu
Originally Posted by Gt27mustang
Originally Posted by Dustmen
Doors should be locked, home owners should be aggressive, and danger should be associated with every uninvited entry a party makes.

This. I always hated in BG1 that you could enter 99% of the houses uninvited and there would be no consequences, no guards, no one told you to get the hell out. It's like:''Hi! I'm just exploring to see if there's anything to loot, don't mind me :)''

I adored (and still adore) that decision; it makes the world feels fantastic.

People want to enter every house in BG? Fine, no problem. But at least bring up some reactivity/consequences. Maybe some residents will try to fight you, maybe some will flee, maybe some will call the guards, maybe some will HAVE guards, maybe some will panic and give you their valuables,....THAT would feel fantastic and immersive.

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No, that would be appealing to this modern notion that realism/"realism" is inherently a virtue.

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Originally Posted by Gt27mustang
People want to enter every house in BG? Fine, no problem. But at least bring up some reactivity/consequences. Maybe some residents will try to fight you, maybe some will flee, maybe some will call the guards, maybe some will HAVE guards, maybe some will panic and give you their valuables,....THAT would feel fantastic and immersive.
That would be awesome. Lack of reactivity and consequences makes things really boring.

Last edited by Zarna; 02/04/22 12:31 AM.
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Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Gt27mustang
People want to enter every house in BG? Fine, no problem. But at least bring up some reactivity/consequences. Maybe some residents will try to fight you, maybe some will flee, maybe some will call the guards, maybe some will HAVE guards, maybe some will panic and give you their valuables,....THAT would feel fantastic and immersive.
That would be awesome. Lack of reactivity and consequences makes things really boring.

Would you say that it is unrealistic?

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Which part?

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Originally Posted by Ragitsu
Originally Posted by Zarna
Originally Posted by Gt27mustang
People want to enter every house in BG? Fine, no problem. But at least bring up some reactivity/consequences. Maybe some residents will try to fight you, maybe some will flee, maybe some will call the guards, maybe some will HAVE guards, maybe some will panic and give you their valuables,....THAT would feel fantastic and immersive.
That would be awesome. Lack of reactivity and consequences makes things really boring.

Would you say that it is unrealistic?

How it was done in BG1 was unrealistic, if that's what you meant.

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Originally Posted by Sozz
So Swen has said this about the game a few times. What do you guys think that means? If Baldur's Gate was, say, 4xEAs in size that sounds pretty big. Or 10 Novigrads with every building fully accessible.

Have they said much else about the scope of the story. It seems like a jaunt in Avernum is possible, originally when they said that the EA was most of Act I, I'd tempered my expectations a little, but it really doesn't have to have much bearing on the acts to come.

The way scale and distances in DOS:2 were treated also had me temper my expectations a little, with maps feeling more like King's Bounty or Heroes Quest in terms of size and scale. That sensibility kind of shows in the EA too.

But Swen really talking up the size of the game does give me some hope.

not sure how big the game for bg3. has larian confirmed how many Acts will there be? also if if entire game having low level cap, even the game is going to be massive, does level matters that much? what i mean to say is, i hope they get the progression correct. like how long would it take to next level up and if the level ups bring enough difference and generally better and more fun gameplay wise.

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