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#812744 01/04/22 06:29 PM
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Yeah, either that or go back to level limits for non-human player races.

"Now there's no more Oak oppression, for they passed a noble law. And the trees are all kept equal, by hatchet, ax, ... and saw!"

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YES! Variant humans PLEASE! Also roll for stats.

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Originally Posted by andreasrylander
YES! Variant humans PLEASE! Also roll for stats.
+1


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Argyle #812766 01/04/22 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Argyle
Yeah, either that or go back to level limits for non-human player races.

"Now there's no more Oak oppression, for they passed a noble law. And the trees are all kept equal, by hatchet, ax, ... and saw!"

+1 for a Geddy Lee lyric quote!

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Humans drool; Elves rule.

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sorry i'm new to dnd5e. just why human is bad? +1 to all ability score that would be it's wise to make all scores odd to gain advantage on it? checked fextralife human only has base racial speed and no subraces. if humans really do suxs, is there anything larian can do about it seeing it's tied to dnd?

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Originally Posted by Archaven
sorry i'm new to dnd5e. just why human is bad? +1 to all ability score that would be it's wise to make all scores odd to gain advantage on it? checked fextralife human only has base racial speed and no subraces. if humans really do suxs, is there anything larian can do about it seeing it's tied to dnd?
Most classes only care about 2 to 3 ability scores, so it's usually better to get a +2 in your main stat than a +1 in a stat you don't often use. And it's very unlikely that all your ability scores will be odd, so some of the +1's will be going to waste.

Additionally, base humans don't get any cool abilities like darkvision or a vampiric bite or a free spell or a breath weapon or natural armor. Combined with above, they are generally underpowered and give the player less options during gameplay compared to other races. Take the Half-Elf: ASIs are Cha +2 and two other scores +1 (so almost as good, if not better, than base human already), but then they also get Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, and proficiency in 2 skills.

D&D has an optional Variant Human that gets two +1s, proficiency in a skill, and a feat, which is nearly universally regarded as a better option than the base-human. This rule is in the base Player's Handbook, so Larian really should implement it. (Though I might argue that they should only get a single +1 to an ability score because some feats are just so incredibly powerful).

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It mostly depends on the looks for me. I usually play humans but here I choose halfelf because at least one of the heads looks nice. I don't like the hairy muscular body for an elf, but there is only one for all, so be it. Human male heads all were ugly last time I checked. The stats for humans indeed are not the best, something should be done about it; but if halfelf had the same, I would nevertheless take it.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Archaven
sorry i'm new to dnd5e. just why human is bad? +1 to all ability score that would be it's wise to make all scores odd to gain advantage on it? checked fextralife human only has base racial speed and no subraces. if humans really do suxs, is there anything larian can do about it seeing it's tied to dnd?
Most classes only care about 2 to 3 ability scores, so it's usually better to get a +2 in your main stat than a +1 in a stat you don't often use. And it's very unlikely that all your ability scores will be odd, so some of the +1's will be going to waste.

Additionally, base humans don't get any cool abilities like darkvision or a vampiric bite or a free spell or a breath weapon or natural armor. Combined with above, they are generally underpowered and give the player less options during gameplay compared to other races. Take the Half-Elf: ASIs are Cha +2 and two other scores +1 (so almost as good, if not better, than base human already), but then they also get Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, and proficiency in 2 skills.

D&D has an optional Variant Human that gets two +1s, proficiency in a skill, and a feat, which is nearly universally regarded as a better option than the base-human. This rule is in the base Player's Handbook, so Larian really should implement it. (Though I might argue that they should only get a single +1 to an ability score because some feats are just so incredibly powerful).
You can probably justify being Human for some specific builds if you know you will have, say, 12+ levels; but it is certainly difficult in EA with a level-cap of 4 to see any reason to choose human, which is completely at odds with the original D&D where Human was an obvious choice.

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"Good? Good? Ms. La Belle, elves aren't 'good'... they are better. These people can run twice as fast as you can without making a sound. They can see to the farthest horizon on a starless night and they can hear the heart beat of a mouse. They don't sweat. If they fart, you'll never hear about it. They can go into a human town and **** everybody's wives, sons, and daughters for fifteen hours straight, they are going to live forever... and can you imagine what would happen if the brand-new emperor had stood before his people and said, 'Hey, these are the people who are going to be in charge of you.' Do you think the people who had just thrown off one tyrant would have just rolled over and accepted that?

smberg #812829 02/04/22 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by smberg
Originally Posted by Argyle
Yeah, either that or go back to level limits for non-human player races.

"Now there's no more Oak oppression, for they passed a noble law. And the trees are all kept equal, by hatchet, ax, ... and saw!"

+1 for a Geddy Lee lyric quote!

Didn't Neil Peart write all the lyrics?

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Originally Posted by andreasrylander
YES! Variant humans PLEASE! Also roll for stats.

Yes please...variant humans and vanilla Half Elf. Both of these are easy to code. The mod version allows you to select any Half-Elf portrait, which works nicely. These are both in the standard players handbook.

I thought dice roll was a verbal confirmation already.


P.S. Neil Peart writes the Lyrics and Lee sings them...great album!

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P.S. Neil Peart writes the Lyrics and Lee sings them...great album!

Thanks for the clarification. I always just think of Geddy Lee’s vocals, but should give writing credit where it’s due. My first Rush concert was the Moving Pictures Tour in February 1981. Saw them a bunch of times over the years. Amazing that 3 people can put out that quality and complexity of musicianship in a live show.

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But the reality is that with Variant Human the "normal" human is death on arrival.
I think the normal human needs a plain +2Stats for a useful Attribut modifier and a solid base for Multiclass in every direction.

A Shield dwarf Tank has +2Con +2Str ++ battlehammerprofiency , axeprofiency and Darkvision
A Human Tank +2Con +2Str but maybe better at Mulitclasses when a 3 Attribut comes into play or you use a Sword which negates the Shield dwarf Profiency bonus. But he has Darkvision...
I think thats balanced in a way.

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Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Archaven
sorry i'm new to dnd5e. just why human is bad? +1 to all ability score that would be it's wise to make all scores odd to gain advantage on it? checked fextralife human only has base racial speed and no subraces. if humans really do suxs, is there anything larian can do about it seeing it's tied to dnd?
Most classes only care about 2 to 3 ability scores, so it's usually better to get a +2 in your main stat than a +1 in a stat you don't often use. And it's very unlikely that all your ability scores will be odd, so some of the +1's will be going to waste.

Additionally, base humans don't get any cool abilities like darkvision or a vampiric bite or a free spell or a breath weapon or natural armor. Combined with above, they are generally underpowered and give the player less options during gameplay compared to other races. Take the Half-Elf: ASIs are Cha +2 and two other scores +1 (so almost as good, if not better, than base human already), but then they also get Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, and proficiency in 2 skills.

D&D has an optional Variant Human that gets two +1s, proficiency in a skill, and a feat, which is nearly universally regarded as a better option than the base-human. This rule is in the base Player's Handbook, so Larian really should implement it. (Though I might argue that they should only get a single +1 to an ability score because some feats are just so incredibly powerful).

thank you!. that helps alot. if that's the case i'm in favor of the variant human.

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Originally Posted by etonbears
Originally Posted by mrfuji3
Originally Posted by Archaven
sorry i'm new to dnd5e. just why human is bad? +1 to all ability score that would be it's wise to make all scores odd to gain advantage on it? checked fextralife human only has base racial speed and no subraces. if humans really do suxs, is there anything larian can do about it seeing it's tied to dnd?
Most classes only care about 2 to 3 ability scores, so it's usually better to get a +2 in your main stat than a +1 in a stat you don't often use. And it's very unlikely that all your ability scores will be odd, so some of the +1's will be going to waste.

Additionally, base humans don't get any cool abilities like darkvision or a vampiric bite or a free spell or a breath weapon or natural armor. Combined with above, they are generally underpowered and give the player less options during gameplay compared to other races. Take the Half-Elf: ASIs are Cha +2 and two other scores +1 (so almost as good, if not better, than base human already), but then they also get Darkvision, Fey Ancestry, and proficiency in 2 skills.

D&D has an optional Variant Human that gets two +1s, proficiency in a skill, and a feat, which is nearly universally regarded as a better option than the base-human. This rule is in the base Player's Handbook, so Larian really should implement it. (Though I might argue that they should only get a single +1 to an ability score because some feats are just so incredibly powerful).
You can probably justify being Human for some specific builds if you know you will have, say, 12+ levels; but it is certainly difficult in EA with a level-cap of 4 to see any reason to choose human, which is completely at odds with the original D&D where Human was an obvious choice.

which specific builds that justify the human race at 12+ levels? genuinely would like to know.

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Human's are the only race that can get a 16 in str, con, and dex during character creation. This is a minor advantage, at best, but it does allow for an AC 16 barechested barbarian, if that's a thing that you want.

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Originally Posted by Caparino
But the reality is that with Variant Human the "normal" human is death on arrival.
I think the normal human needs a plain +2Stats for a useful Attribut modifier and a solid base for Multiclass in every direction.

A Shield dwarf Tank has +2Con +2Str ++ battlehammerprofiency , axeprofiency and Darkvision
A Human Tank +2Con +2Str but maybe better at Mulitclasses when a 3 Attribut comes into play or you use a Sword which negates the Shield dwarf Profiency bonus. But he has Darkvision...
I think thats balanced in a way.
Honestly, so what if the normal human is dead on arrival? It almost certainly is in pnp dnd. Compared to variant human its very niche in what it can do. Like some people said you can do very specific things with it but for every other other build variant human is just better.

And thats oke. For some builds races like elves are bare non the best. Or dwarves. If people want to pick those options they can do that. Almost all of the other PhB race options are in the game and some that arent in the PhB at all! So why not variant human?

Compared to alot of other races humans already get no darkvision, no racial spells, no resistances, no bonus proficienes, no better speed then 30 feet (looking at you wood elves), etc etc. Variant human was one of the only things going for players who wanted to play a human and now theyre robbed of that as well smirk


+1 for variant humans. I would like to see rolling for skills but I feel it would just be us rerolling forever till we get the best build evar! (like in bg1 and bg2 incidentily) and I donno. It might take away from the game a little bit. That said, more options is always better. So +1 for rolling for stats as well!

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I like rolling for stats. Sometimes I get the "fever", ya know, and I just gotta roll them bones. The Deck of Many Things is another table I like to run.

D&D was originally conceived to be "humanocentric". The old AD&D Dungeon Master Guide has a pretty well written explanation as to why that is so. To summarize what I got out of it, it is because we players are all human, and we can all identify with our own limitations. The projection of our own experience into the game story is what makes it satisfying. The DMG goes on to talk about monsters as player characters, like Gold Dragons for example, and the long-run pitfalls of doing so.

“After a time, you may find that having is not so pleasing a thing after all as wanting. It is not logical, but is often true.” - Spock

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