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I thought hairy chest was a class feature for barbarians.

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We all know (or should know) that a hairless torso is mandatory for unarmored fighting (less air resistance f.e.), as well as for attracting a diversity of people. It's the secret why some barbarians are successful or others not, thrust me, ahm, trust me.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Demoulius
I wonder what it will do the balance of the game...
Nothing.

Once rolled stats will be implemented (and it was promised) nothing stops you to roll as long as you want ... in single player ofc. in multiplayer, maybe people will urge you to "goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo". laugh
Even if there would be some mechanism to allow you only certain amount of rerolls ... quite honestly so what? You spend them, then leave to the menu and start new game again, heading right to the ability scores.

Thats why i say once rolled stats will be implemented (and it was promised), they should aswell implement infinite point buy ... the outcome would be the same, it only saves time to people. smile
You mention a few times it was promised? Can you provide a link? I dont recall them ever promising that confused

And it WILL do something for balance, lol. Theres simply no way around that. Max stats you can get with a 2+ bonus to a statline is 17 with point buy. So you would have 1 statline that high. With dice rolling the max is 18 for potentially multiple stats. Specially if players can just endleslly reroll they WILL be more powerfull. That Monk that I listed earlier cant be made with point buy. The highest the stats can go is 15. And when making 5 stats 15 and 1 stat 13 like my previously mentioned monk has he would use up 50 of the 27 points that he has with point buy. Which is obviously impossible xD

Hhigher statblocks have direct influence on combat capability. Higher dex boosts your AC. Strength boosts melee damage, CON raises HP, etc. You get the picture. It also boosts your saves versus debuffs or outright damage. Now that isent to say that its a bad thing to implement. But it will no doubt make the game easier. And I do believe developers like to at least challenge us with encounters, which is harder to do if all our stats are 18....

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Yeah, higher stats at character creation will affect balance. But it won't matter all that much. D&D 5e has a concept called bounded accuracy that limits the extent to which you can stack bonuses. Even level 20 character cannot have stats higher than 20 except for very specific situations (level 20 barbarian for instance).

So, having a 20 in your prime stat at level 1 will be helpful, and it will make the first few levels easier, but tough encounters will not be trivialized. Late game balance will be affected by the fact that people can spend their ASI's on feats rather than stats, but they will not be able to push their prime stats any higher in the long run than a player with point buy. This will just make the game a little bit easier. It won't be equivalent to activating god mode or anything of that sort.

The feats will make the characters stronger, but even then bounded accuracy means that they will still miss fairly often, and they will still get hit fairly often.

Just make it so that hosts can toggle off the ability to roll stats for multiplayer (or enforce ONE roll, or something) and let the decisions for the single player game be made by the player.

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Originally Posted by Demoulius
You mention a few times it was promised? Can you provide a link?
Surprisingly (no joke here, i didnt think i will search it again laugh ) ... i can! laugh

Here: https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=669477#Post669477
Originally Posted by Danielbda
https://twinfinite.net/2020/02/baldurs-gate-3-interview/

"Ed: Can you roll for stats? How will that work?

Walgrave: You can! In the character creation, you can accept what’s there or you can use the point buy option, or you can roll for stats. We’re going to implement I think two or three different ways of doing it. "


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I definitely think there should be Variant Humans, or at the very least, the standard humans should get tweaked. Some things have been tweaked from the pen and paper rules, such as changes to Ranger, so tweaking Humans wouldn't be out of line either. Wyll and Gale should also become Variant Humans if they get added.

There are many ways to tweak humans, and many would be fine without giving them a feat.

  • Humans get a +2 / +1 ASI which float (they can go anywhere) instead of +1 All. That would obviously look weak if BG3 adds in floating ability scores from Tasha's to everyone, but I don't think they'll do that.
  • Humans get two floating +1 ASIs, AND expertise (double proficiency bonus) in a skill proficiency of their choice. That would work with the "Jack of all trades" type without granting them special things like Darkvision.


If certain Feats are too strong, they could add Variant Human and level-gate those Feats so that while they can get selected at level 1, they don't come fully online until level 4. Or alternatively, at level 4 the Variant human gets both an ASI and a Feat. (Possibly they can exchange the ASI for a second Feat, but they won't be able to exchange the Feat for a second ASI.)


***

If Larian, as presumed, won't be allowing floating ability scores in the game, I do want rolling for stats to be in the game, to allow for more variety in character builds. For instance, if I want to make a Wizard from a race which doesn't normally get any bonus to Intelligence, rolling would let me get a 16-18 I could use to allocate into INT.

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Inasmuch as the game is based on 5e rules, and variant humans are in the ruleset, I would really like to see variant humans in the game.

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It's a computer game and something you need to avoid is large range RNG. It simply doesn't work that one person playing get all tails and another person in the world get all heads, because the RNG range allows it, we need to have a system where every single player in their game get close to a 50% ratio of head and tails. We aren't statistics, RNG systems that is based on ALL of us having 50% head and tails is silly, as I will never get to experience everyone else's rolls.


I really wish they would do something about the cringe worthy 8 stat char's, you can't loot much in the naut with only 8 str (Good punish people for silly builds), but you can still be a genius with 8 int.

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Originally Posted by "Miravlix"
RNG systems that is based on ALL of us having 50% head and tails is silly
And mechanicaly impossible. laugh

Originally Posted by "Miravlix"
but you can still be a genius with 8 int
Eh ... no you cant. laugh
Unless you want to be some odd kind of "genius" who *almost* never remembers anything ... *almost* never understands anything ... *almost* never figure anything ... and all your "genius" is showed by the fact that you are *able* to make a full sentence. :-/


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Originally Posted by Stabbey
I definitely think there should be Variant Humans, or at the very least, the standard humans should get tweaked. Some things have been tweaked from the pen and paper rules, such as changes to Ranger, so tweaking Humans wouldn't be out of line either. Wyll and Gale should also become Variant Humans if they get added.

There are many ways to tweak humans, and many would be fine without giving them a feat.

  • Humans get a +2 / +1 ASI which float (they can go anywhere) instead of +1 All. That would obviously look weak if BG3 adds in floating ability scores from Tasha's to everyone, but I don't think they'll do that.
  • Humans get two floating +1 ASIs, AND expertise (double proficiency bonus) in a skill proficiency of their choice. That would work with the "Jack of all trades" type without granting them special things like Darkvision.


If certain Feats are too strong, they could add Variant Human and level-gate those Feats so that while they can get selected at level 1, they don't come fully online until level 4. Or alternatively, at level 4 the Variant human gets both an ASI and a Feat. (Possibly they can exchange the ASI for a second Feat, but they won't be able to exchange the Feat for a second ASI.)


***

If Larian, as presumed, won't be allowing floating ability scores in the game, I do want rolling for stats to be in the game, to allow for more variety in character builds. For instance, if I want to make a Wizard from a race which doesn't normally get any bonus to Intelligence, rolling would let me get a 16-18 I could use to allocate into INT.


tried solasta rerolling.. i must say either Tactical Adventures must be really generous or i'm just darn lucky. Here's my current Ranger stats:

15 STR
19 DEX (+2 DEX due to Ancestry)
18 CON
11 INT
18 WIS (+1 DEX due to Ancestry)
11 CHA

i must admit i did take some time to roll though but it's not as bad as baldur's gate 2 IIRC. Hence +1 to Larian adding Rerolls. not sure if the rolls are better due to 4d6 and keeping the 3 best rolls. definitely really good for people who wanted it. also i wanted the free edit too. sometimes i'm creating a new character because of some minor stuff that i made mistake of like character name, gender, appearance, race, etc. so i really like the free edit option (at least for single player).

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I don't think there is anything preventing them from putting Variant Humans in the game. Larian has not said either way, but as its in the PHB then its likely to be there. It's probably just not a priority to address this right now.

The biggest problem with re-rolls is multiplayer. I don't care what you do in your single player adventures, feel free to cheat yourself of a challenging experience all you want, just keep that shit out of multiplayer. Nobody wants to spend an hour in character creation while four people re-roll for that *perfect* roll. Ugh. Point buy is honestly the system with the most integrity from a gaming perspective.

Finally, humans are definitely not underpowered. Even without variant humans they get the highest stats overall and make the best barbarians currently.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by "Miravlix"
but you can still be a genius with 8 int
Eh ... no you cant. laugh
Unless you want to be some odd kind of "genius" who *almost* never remembers anything ... *almost* never understands anything ... *almost* never figure anything ... and all your "genius" is showed by the fact that you are *able* to make a full sentence. :-/

Yes a human GM can do int checks, but as I said it was talking about a computer GM and none of your examples is something the game can handle.


The voicing of the avatar is a problem too, there is no way most of those lines would be said by an 8 int/wiz person.

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A more flexible way to do standard human - and this would only be one small step, but a worthwhile one all the same - would be that rather than giving them one ability point to each stat across the board, give them six ability points to allocate, with the limitation that they cannot put more than two points into any one score; this gives them actual *flexibility*, which is the supposed theme of humans, rather than the generic blandness that is 'one to each', but it remains within the balance bounds of ability point allocation set by other races.

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I've said this before and I'll say it again.

8 Intelligence doesn't make you a simpleton unable to form complete sentences. This is a thing that several crpgs decided to do, but it's not a thing in 5e DnD, or in 4e, or in 3e.

Just as a comparison, the lowest threshold for sentient creatures, for being able to speak, is 3 Intelligence. Having 8 Int just means you're a bit of a dumbarse, and plenty of people these days go through the world being dumbarses while being able to speak just fine.

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Originally Posted by Niara
A more flexible way to do standard human - and this would only be one small step, but a worthwhile one all the same - would be that rather than giving them one ability point to each stat across the board, give them six ability points to allocate, with the limitation that they cannot put more than two points into any one score; this gives them actual *flexibility*, which is the supposed theme of humans, rather than the generic blandness that is 'one to each', but it remains within the balance bounds of ability point allocation set by other races.
Hmm this would be a big boon to MAD classes like Monk, Barb, & Paladin. Easily have 16 16 14 and non-terrible other stats.

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The whole stats system of DnD (and similar games) is a mess because it's totally oversimplified and unrealistic, out of necessity and/or tradition. It's a big fault to use the same stats for combat and dialog for example. There are no reasons why a gifted sorcerer, a cleric, a fighter or barbarian cannot be charismatic, full of wisdom or strong and "intelligent" at the same time. The dialogs do not fit for a dumb person on the other hand, mostly. It's difficult to allocate most of the options to a person of low intelligence and at the same time stay consistent in behavior.

I think there is no way to make this system better without huge effort, so it's best to send your common sense on vacation and just overlook the many faults of the system. From this point of view it would be best to have freedom and variety for stats disposition for as many races as possible, which speaks for the introduction of the variant human.

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UNREALISTIC.

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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Nobody wants to spend an hour in character creation while four people re-roll for that *perfect* roll. Ugh.
One more reason to implement infinite point buy. laugh
And set lowest value on 3. :P

Seriously tho ...
I dont think there is any difference between people waiting for party member to roll "perfect stats" ... and people waiting for last party member to decide if he likes his character more with purple or black eyeshadows. laugh

And i believe we have solution for both ...
Once leader feels like its taking too long ... he can kick that person out. :P


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Originally Posted by Miravlix
Yes a human GM can do int checks, but as I said it was talking about a computer GM and none of your examples is something the game can handle.
Im not sure i follow ...
How is PC-GM "unable to do int check" ? O_o

RNG generates your roll ... adds your modifier ... and see the result.
Just like human GM do ...

Originally Posted by Miravlix
there is no way most of those lines would be said by an 8 int/wiz person.
Sometimes i wonder where this trend originate ...
I mean what is the logic behind this? Sure, as 8int/wis person you are not "as smart as" 14int/wis person ... but why should that automaticly mean you are practicaly on edge of mental retardation? O_o


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