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Ragnarok is on fire today laugh

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No kidding: BG3 throws a LOT of vendor trash the player's way. That said, in Baldur's Gate 2, a Bag of Holding is eventually obtainable.

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I'm not sure but the "artwork frame" and the negative space you might be talking about is a result of the game being run at a resolution far exceeding what was expected.

As for inventory management, that used to be a thing before everyone's belt became a pocket plane.

I'll quibble with mr_planescape on one thing, I don't think the current inventory in BG3 is efficient in anyway, it's more like Diablo than Baldur's Gate.

Last edited by Sozz; 13/04/22 07:02 PM.
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To be fair, every game in the BG series (1, 2, and now 3) has had atrocious inventory management/UI. Inventory management in BG1/2 is like trying to fit a castle's worth of personal possessions into a shoebox apartment. In BG3 it's more akin to having a junk yard that occasionally randomizes object locations to search through.


Inventory space is always an issue in BG1, and especially BG2 when you are littered with well-designed, useful magical items. My character may have graduated beyond using Daystar or Ilbratha as my main weapon, but you betcha I'm keeping them around for the mirror image and sunray castings.

The containers introduced in SoA and TOB helps with the spacing, and there's a reason why some of the most popular BG2 mods are more containers and item stacks, but searching through them is even worst. Needing to open up and scroll through multiple bags of holding or scroll/potion/ammo cases to find the 1 item you actually need is NOT a good time.

By today's standards, the classic BG2 is missing a lot of things you'd expect in a UI - i.e. not being able to see how items affect your stats in the Inventory (i.e. damage, thac0), any form of item compare, etc. For all the questionable new content and mechanical changes the EE brought, they've actually improved on this quite a bit. At least there's a decently accurate damage calculator and Thac0 indicator ON the inventory screen now. Whereas before you had to manually switch over to the Records screen to see that.


Now after the Patch 7 update, BG3's biggest inventory sin continues to be how incredibly janky it feels to move items around, and the fact that it's not well designed to manage the amount of items you can accumulate. Also, it's multi-player-first design of inventories (most noticeable on things like the vendor interaction screen), really drags it down in a single player experience.

BG3 definitely has the most optional clutter of all the games - since any interactable object can be added to the inventory. This on its own isn't the worst thing in the world - the issue is the inventory control lacks any features and options to help you move around large amounts of objects easily. You accidentally press the "loot all" button a few times too many, and now your inventory has TONS of trash that you have to remove one-by-one. No way to select multiple items. Not easy way to remove from inventory in 1 click/action.

IMO, they really need to add the scroll, potion cases, etc from BG1/2 to BG3. Specific item type containers that helps the players keep organized - not just random bags you can toss any random thing into.

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Originally Posted by Sozz
I'm not sure but the "artwork frame" and the negative space you might be talking about is a result of the game being run at a resolution far exceeding what was expected.
I thought it would be something like that ... but was not sure.
KotOR had simmilar "solution".

But even if i ignore that huge wide frame around ... i still cant help the feeling that there is many unused space. :-/


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
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Originally Posted by Topgoon
IMO, they really need to add the scroll, potion cases, etc from BG1/2 to BG3. Specific item type containers that helps the players keep organized - not just random bags you can toss any random thing into.
+1. Custom backpacks aren't the same as dedicated [consumable] cases.

With a backpack, items only automatically go into that backpack IF:
a.) you already have at least 1 of that item in the backpack, AND
b.) the correct character picks it up.

The former encourages you to never use the last of any given item, and the latter encourages you to maintain 1 backpack per resource type per character (which means you now are discouraged from using the last 4 of any given consumable). Or you have to constantly manage who's picking up items/shifting items between characters to get them out of your main inventory and into a backpack.

Plus, obviously, dedicated [consumable] cases will look visually distinct = easier inventory management.

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Originally Posted by Topgoon
IMO, they really need to add the scroll, potion cases, etc from BG1/2 to BG3. Specific item type containers that helps the players keep organized - not just random bags you can toss any random thing into.

I agree so much with this too !
And I'd add a quiver for ammunitions ! In BG1/2 quivers were "items slots", which wouldn't make sense in BG3. A proper quiver in which you can put all your ammunitions would be so cool.
And an icon on the hotbar with the quiver. If you click on it, a popup opens and you can select any amunition you have to use them (normal or special). Somekind of "ammunition toggle" so you don't have to put all your arrows on your hotbar and you don't have to go in your inventory everytime you want to use a special ammo.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 13/04/22 07:55 PM.
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I'm glad that Larian decided to fuse their own style with Forgotten Realms.

I never played BG2, but I have played BG1, and I hate it with a passion. I hate clunky controls, where you can't have a thief check for traps and sneak at the same time, I hate Tarnesh at the Friendly Arm's Inn, I hate the chess level in Durlag's Tower, I hate random encounters with web traps that just turn your entire group off for about 5 mins of irl time. I didn't use any guides for the game, and learned to deal with every challenge with minimal losses, but it didn't feel like a victory. It felt like learning to live with a serious case of hemorrhoids. I also am not fond of the fact that nobody cares about your race/class, and the awful, juvenile dialogue with about 5 instances in the entire game where your choice affects the outcome (yes, that includes the Marl dialogue).

I'm no stranger to games that don't hold your hand much. I'm a huge fan of Morrowind, VtMB, both KotORs and many other old titles. When I play them, I feel that these games genuinely want to pull me into their atmosphere and provide reasonable chanllenge. And when I play BG1, it feels like the game wants to fuck with me just for the sake of it. To make the journey as bland, tedious and harrowing as possible. I hope to God that BG3 is nothing like at least one of it's predecessors.

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Inventory management in BG:3 is probably the worst thing about the EA for me, whether it's selling things to the merchant, moving things around various characters, moving things to and from the camp chest, the auto-sorting system and the tabs (more tabs please). It's enough to make you not really want to pick up things after a while, and not for the right reasons, like a weight/value/space calculus, but just so you don't have to deal with the UI.

Considering there are still buggy things with the merchant menus and the auto-sort, maybe there's a bigger overhaul coming.

Last edited by Sozz; 13/04/22 08:58 PM.
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Originally Posted by Topgoon
Inventory management in BG1/2 is like trying to fit a castle's worth of personal possessions into a shoebox apartment.
That's not really true though, is it, unless you try to keep every weapon, even if you found a far better replacement. I don't remember BG1 having many weapons worth keeping (though, I admit, I didn't play BG1 too many times) and BG2 very early introduced bag of holding, so you could carry whatever you wanted. I never manage overfill my inventory before that. The only real criticism of BG2 inventory I have are containers for potions and scrolls - yeah they work fine, meaning they contain my collection of scrolls and potions, but once there, I almost never ever use them. Too much out of sight.


Originally Posted by Sozz
Inventory management in BG:3 is probably the worst thing about the EA for me, whether it's selling things to the merchant, moving things around various characters, moving things to and from the camp chest, the auto-sorting system and the tabs (more tabs please).
Yeah, Larian's hasn't been great with secondary mechanics - they are too complicated and too tedious to interact with.

I have been thinking about it, while playing Weird West today. Also a lot of items. Also a lot of junk. Companions to whom you can give stuff to carry. A horse in whose saddles you can leave loot. When shopping you can access al those inventory easily. Minimum hassle, maximum fun.

Pay more attention to this stuff, Larian. Good control/UI can really sour the experience.

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Originally Posted by Moradin's hammer
I never played BG2, but I have played BG1, and I hate it with a passion. I hate clunky controls, where you can't have a thief check for traps and sneak at the same time, I hate Tarnesh at the Friendly Arm's Inn, I hate the chess level in Durlag's Tower, I hate random encounters with web traps that just turn your entire group off for about 5 mins of irl time. I didn't use any guides for the game, and learned to deal with every challenge with minimal losses, but it didn't feel like a victory. It felt like learning to live with a serious case of hemorrhoids. I also am not fond of the fact that nobody cares about your race/class, and the awful, juvenile dialogue with about 5 instances in the entire game where your choice affects the outcome (yes, that includes the Marl dialogue).

I'm no stranger to games that don't hold your hand much. I'm a huge fan of Morrowind, VtMB, both KotORs and many other old titles. When I play them, I feel that these games genuinely want to pull me into their atmosphere and provide reasonable chanllenge. And when I play BG1, it feels like the game wants to fuck with me just for the sake of it. To make the journey as bland, tedious and harrowing as possible. I hope to God that BG3 is nothing like at least one of it's predecessors.

Baldur's Gate 3 would be fortunate to run its tongue along the underside of Baldur's Gate's boots.

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

I dunno ... what i see here is tons of useless "wannabe artwork frame" shit ... and ridiculously small inventory that would be filled in BG3 in ... duno, aproximately 12 seconds. :-/

Rag the nag, I am almost done with your BG2 mod! Be patient!

And what I see is a non imaginative newbi wannabe UI art style in BG3's inventory. Actually, there is very little art-style. Just a couple of boxes to fill to the gut with worthless crap.

I view unused <negative> space in artwork as a HUGE positive. And I am sure many graphic designers would also concur. But of course you don't! I get it.
You must HATE Tatami rooms (but of course you don't!!! I get it.) Its useless "wannabe artwork frame# shit I guess. FILL IT WITH STUFF!!
So there, heres a Tatami room for you to Nag at:

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 14/04/22 12:36 AM.
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[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]
Woops sorry, too much unused space, here:

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Oh wait...sorry. The way Rag likes it smile :

[Linked Image from i.ibb.co]

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 14/04/22 02:12 AM.
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To anwser OP's question, I still play them yes. And they are indeed dated.

Mostly in terms of game design (but theyre old games so kinda understandable), visuals (old engine. Hard to flaw them for that) and the version of dnd theyre based on (also hard to flaw the devs for that. It was current when they made it). The former is found in the pretty linear story telling and fixed location for enemy placements. You often have multiple ways to fix problems (well sometimes, not always) but at the end of the day alot of the encounters always happen in the same manner. If you played the game onnce or twice though its hard not to prepare for the fights that you know are coming which can make them easier then they should be. Visuals is kinda hard to flaw them for speaking from the future. The enhanced editions also kind of fixed a part of that. Its pretty visually appealing now. On the subject of editon, we play 5e now and bg1 and 2 were based on 2nd ed (or version 2.5? Dont recall) which shows its age. Concepts like Thac0 are very dated and while not that super hard to grasp (the lower, the better) can be confusing for new players.

That said, it isent all bad. The pathing AI is in some areas better then more modern games (if you can believe that), the targetting AI is pretty top notch and will abuse any downside in your defenses that it can find. Mostly beause magic is INSANELY overpowered in this version of dnd. But still. The game reacts to your gameplan. Brought summons? If they have the spell, they will insant-gib those. Have defenses? They will quikly dispell those. The game doesent hold back at all! And it is infact this aspect of the game that I love so much. It is brutal! And the feeling and power you gain when you manage to beat the (often optional) boss fights is amazing. Even in the worst case youre still walking away with a metric ton of XP, some coin and if you are lucky some magical items. You rarely find yourself finding the encounters not rewarding.

What I loved about the game was:
-Interparty banter. People have personalities and some of them clash. Have some people in your party that hate eachother and they WILL start killing eachother. Some companions are couples, and you cant have 1 without the other. Can be a pain in the ass, but it fits. The bigger parties also kind of counteract the latter downside.
-Dialogue: the options player get in conversation are insane. And imho a staple for what rpg's should be. Sometimes it comes down to what you say to a person. Are you a dick? Are you kind? Are you mocking them? Are you taunting them? And at other times you can actively deflate an upcoming combat. Other times you can actually cause fighting to erupt instead. You can lie. You can be evasive. You can be straight to the point and blunt or you can as agressive as you want to be. In most cases you have choice in how you approach dialogue. You are allowed to ROLE PLAY your character! And I love it!
-Story. Although some parts of the story can be quite linear and obvious. At other times it is the complete opposite. Want to find the bandit camp? Unless you find the proper information (IIRC you have to keep your 1 lead alive to interrogate him and that can fail) you will only have a vague idea of where to look. And that enforces exploration and adventure!
-The world feels large and alive. Although alot of npc's have fixed locations. Come to the towns and you will find alot of them moving about. Even if theyre just moving around abit randomly it gives the feeling that you just arrived in a town where people do their own thing. They have their own things to worry about. Talk to random npc's and what they say will be reflected in their standing in life. If theyre a far,er theyre worried about crops and maybe the iron crisis but they wont comment on things they realisticly wouldnt. It all fits. Its immersive. Sometimes people will have offhand comments or gossip that are actual leads and other times its just that. Rumors and not actually important.
-Optional content. In BG1 the areas you NEED to be in to follow the story is like..... 1/5 of the map? All of the other areas are completly optional. Theres still stuff going around in those areas and npc companions you can easily miss in those areas as well. Realisticly you will be doing some adventuring sooner or later. Maybe because a companion has something to do. Minsc for example needs to go to the gnoll fortress. Which is completly tucked away in a corner somewhere. While you travel there you move through like 3-4 areas and find that most areas have something going on. And even the areas that dont got things like a xvart village or something.
-it felt like proper dnd. The devs had respect for the source material and it showed!

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I still have them installed and dip into them now and again. There IS something very special about BG1 and 2 and I think its a combination of good writing (for the most part) and as a few others have mentioned, the size of the world. I would also however agree that they have not aged well and I doubt I'd ever do a full play through of them again. BG3 is the new age and I have to say I am loving it so far.

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It took 18 years before I learned that the chest behind Winthrop in the Candlekeep Inn is trapped.
1 .... 8 ..... y .... e .... a .... r .... s


The tools for modding the game are what made BG interesting for me in my later years.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Topgoon
IMO, they really need to add the scroll, potion cases, etc from BG1/2 to BG3. Specific item type containers that helps the players keep organized - not just random bags you can toss any random thing into.

I agree so much with this too !
And I'd add a quiver for ammunitions ! In BG1/2 quivers were "items slots", which wouldn't make sense in BG3. A proper quiver in which you can put all your ammunitions would be so cool.
And an icon on the hotbar with the quiver. If you click on it, a popup opens and you can select any amunition you have to use them (normal or special). Somekind of "ammunition toggle" so you don't have to put all your arrows on your hotbar and you don't have to go in your inventory everytime you want to use a special ammo.

I like this a lot.

They honestly need to have more "subcategories" toggles on various things in the UI, in general.

I.e. currently trying to throw a weapon in BG3 opens the ENTIRE inventory in the tiny UI space for you to scroll through, when they should at least auto-separate dedicated throwing weapons vs. any random object, and make things easy to search in some way.

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I played BG1 and BG2 both with my brother at home cooperative play through LAN connection. Long time ago and you do not need to be adult to play them.
I have met my brother this year and his plan is to buy BG3 when it releases (year 2023 99% sure I believe) and play it with me.

This sligthly more modern remix version I like fairly much:

Last edited by Terminator2020; 25/04/22 07:03 PM.
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The technological progress has made the old games awful.

It's like anything, sure I could live a thousand years ago (No I can't I would have died due to my genetics, but some people could) and been just fine, but there is no way I would want to live in the past, I don't even want to live in the time I have, because the future will bring improvements.

Music made by past generation is no different than music made tomorrow, because our hearing and understanding of sound doesn't evolve, with computers we haven't even figured out how to make the perfect user interface yet or the level of graphics.

I loved BG1 and BG2 in there time and day, but they are cringe worthy when trying to play them after having experienced the progress since then. Technology does not age well.

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A pox on whoever started this "cringe" meme; everything and anything is apparently "cringe" worthy. Constitutions are weakened and sensibilities are excessively sensitive.

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