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In the many threads like this, it's personal taste all over, and by and large rather meaningless. You can analyse what is different between the DnD rules and BG3. Then you can say you don't like it, worded usually as "It's objectively a fault to do x instead of y". But the latter is just not objective, it's an opinion. Larian has a different opinion.

For me it was very clear (before I bought the game) that they would take the DnD rules and change some stuff to their liking, based on what they see as fun in a video game. Every player will judge the game by the fun and good time they'll have. I don't care wether something is in the DnD rulebook or not, as long as it is an interesting result in the game. There is something (or: a lot) to do to make the game better, and based on the changes already done in EA I have a certain but not full faith in Larian, but some wishes of DnD purists I read about should not enter BG3 in my opinion. Which is an opinion.

It's ok/necessary to criticize the game and propose changes. But some of the criticism is so fundamental that I would say, sorry, not your game, move along. Play Solasta, for example. I'm not interested in Solasta because of some of the game design, but that's ok, I just don't play it and would not try to change fundamental design choices.

Last edited by geala; 12/04/22 12:33 PM.
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Originally Posted by geala
I don't care wether something is in the DnD rulebook or not

People who are here because it's an official D&D game do care.

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Personally I think it's... I don't want to say "wrong" as it's not exactly the right meaning, but as a player I think it's flawed to treat any D&D-based video game as a replacement of D&D, because it just can't be the same. (Though I do have a few ideas on that). Going into it expecting a D&D-simulator where the DM role is automated and perfect, and other associations with being around a table with friends using your imagination as the main driving-force of a game just won't tickle the same alone, in front of a screen with a software that inevitably can only be rigid in its decision-making just can't do that. So in some ways, I think it's a trap to promote any game as D&D because it brings expectations in all forms and shapes that can never be equally and adequately satisfied across the board, in a general sense.

Even in D&D, each game, even using the same campaign is always different, depending on the DM you have. I, for example, never ever under any circumstance use random encounters. I think they're a slog, adds nothing to the game and is generally boring. Instead I have intentional and more impactful encounters for players to potentially encounter during their travels, and helps make travelling from point A to point B a more interactive journey and roleplay for them, rather than at the mercy of a dice roll. Whereas other people, some of which frequent these forums, highly adore random encounters and would like to see them added into for example BG3.

Back to my "ideas" though. What I personally would really love to see is a mode in BG3 that throws all NPC AI out the window and adds a 5th role, a DM role for multiplayer lobbies that does the traditional DM role. They're in control of the enemy NPCs, a toggle to hide units, manage player/NPC inventories for trade RP etc, and in a quick swoop (though intermediate cost of development), turn it into a D&D-sim where the videogame is the adventure PDF and the DM gets to do what a DM does in a campaign, and players play more of a traditional role as well. The problem with this, is it's exclusively a multiplayer feature and is unplayable for any solo-players or spouses looking for a couch-game, but is definitely a mode I'd enjoy as both a DM and player. And in my opinion, the only way I'd allow myself to approach and play the game to tickle my D&D fancies.

Until then, I find it healthier for myself to approach the game as a video game with somewhat relatable features and systems. But for my love for D&D and urges and tickles to scratch for it, nothing can replace my Saturday sessions. Is it Saturday yet?

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Originally Posted by The Composer
Personally I think it's... I don't want to say "wrong" as it's not exactly the right meaning, but as a player I think it's flawed to treat any D&D-based video game as a replacement of D&D, because it just can't be the same. (Though I do have a few ideas on that). Going into it expecting a D&D-simulator where the DM role is automated and perfect, and other associations with being around a table with friends using your imagination as the main driving-force of a game just won't tickle the same alone, in front of a screen with a software that inevitably can only be rigid in its decision-making just can't do that. So in some ways, I think it's a trap to promote any game as D&D because it brings expectations in all forms and shapes that can never be equally and adequately satisfied across the board, in a general sense.

Even in D&D, each game, even using the same campaign is always different, depending on the DM you have. I, for example, never ever under any circumstance use random encounters. I think they're a slog, adds nothing to the game and is generally boring. Instead I have intentional and more impactful encounters for players to potentially encounter during their travels, and helps make travelling from point A to point B a more interactive journey and roleplay for them, rather than at the mercy of a dice roll. Whereas other people, some of which frequent these forums, highly adore random encounters and would like to see them added into for example BG3.

Back to my "ideas" though. What I personally would really love to see is a mode in BG3 that throws all NPC AI out the window and adds a 5th role, a DM role for multiplayer lobbies that does the traditional DM role. They're in control of the enemy NPCs, a toggle to hide units, manage player/NPC inventories for trade RP etc, and in a quick swoop (though intermediate cost of development), turn it into a D&D-sim where the videogame is the adventure PDF and the DM gets to do what a DM does in a campaign, and players play more of a traditional role as well. The problem with this, is it's exclusively a multiplayer feature and is unplayable for any solo-players or spouses looking for a couch-game, but is definitely a mode I'd enjoy as both a DM and player. And in my opinion, the only way I'd allow myself to approach and play the game to tickle my D&D fancies.

Until then, I find it healthier for myself to approach the game as a video game with somewhat relatable features and systems. But for my love for D&D and urges and tickles to scratch for it, nothing can replace my Saturday sessions. Is it Saturday yet?
Well said. I fully agree, although sadly for me there is no physical group anymore to play in-person TT D&D. I play through Roll20 online, which is okay but just not the same experience as being there around a table in-person.

And for those who want that in-person TT experience, but in a virtual way for whatever reasons, there are several TT gaming simulators now available out there that do a great job of allowing you to create a D&D game exactly the way you want it to be. Video games are not, never have been, and most importantly cannot be expected to be TT simulators. So it is unreasonable to expect BG3, a video game, to be a D&D TT simulator. That said, it is NOT unreasonable to expect that a game advertised as a D&D game would indeed actually be a D&D game and not some other type of game (D:OS?) with some D&D elements thrown into the mix.

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Foundry is by far the best online TT experience IMO, as a tangent. Never going back to Roll20 😅

Edit: As a DM, anyway. Just so much better from that seat.

Last edited by The Composer; 12/04/22 05:30 PM.
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Originally Posted by The Composer
Personally I think it's... I don't want to say "wrong" as it's not exactly the right meaning, but as a player I think it's flawed to treat any D&D-based video game as a replacement of D&D, because it just can't be the same.

I haven't seen these mythical complaints about BG3 not being "the same as tabletop." I don't care about that, and the videogamers on this forum have not stated that. I want the videogame to include all the things everyone knows it could easily include. There have been videogames for 25 years that include far more of the PHB than this one does. There is no good reason why this game could not also have similar levels of mechanics and rules.

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Originally Posted by The Composer
Back to my "ideas" though. What I personally would really love to see is a mode in BG3 that throws all NPC AI out the window and adds a 5th role, a DM role for multiplayer lobbies that does the traditional DM role. They're in control of the enemy NPCs, a toggle to hide units, manage player/NPC inventories for trade RP etc, and in a quick swoop (though intermediate cost of development), turn it into a D&D-sim where the videogame is the adventure PDF and the DM gets to do what a DM does in a campaign, and players play more of a traditional role as well. The problem with this, is it's exclusively a multiplayer feature and is unplayable for any solo-players or spouses looking for a couch-game, but is definitely a mode I'd enjoy as both a DM and player. And in my opinion, the only way I'd allow myself to approach and play the game to tickle my D&D fancies.

Until then, I find it healthier for myself to approach the game as a video game with somewhat relatable features and systems. But for my love for D&D and urges and tickles to scratch for it, nothing can replace my Saturday sessions. Is it Saturday yet?

Didn't Larian do this for DOS2?

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Originally Posted by fallenj
Originally Posted by The Composer
Back to my "ideas" though. What I personally would really love to see is a mode in BG3 that throws all NPC AI out the window and adds a 5th role, a DM role for multiplayer lobbies that does the traditional DM role. They're in control of the enemy NPCs, a toggle to hide units, manage player/NPC inventories for trade RP etc, and in a quick swoop (though intermediate cost of development), turn it into a D&D-sim where the videogame is the adventure PDF and the DM gets to do what a DM does in a campaign, and players play more of a traditional role as well. The problem with this, is it's exclusively a multiplayer feature and is unplayable for any solo-players or spouses looking for a couch-game, but is definitely a mode I'd enjoy as both a DM and player. And in my opinion, the only way I'd allow myself to approach and play the game to tickle my D&D fancies.

Until then, I find it healthier for myself to approach the game as a video game with somewhat relatable features and systems. But for my love for D&D and urges and tickles to scratch for it, nothing can replace my Saturday sessions. Is it Saturday yet?

Didn't Larian do this for DOS2?

Nah, that's Game Master mode, which was entirely separate and quite limited. (Sadly)

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Originally Posted by Niara
EDIT: I am very tired, and I apologise if this sounds aggressive. It's not my intention to be argumentative or disagreeable... but I do feel quite sure in my rationality and reasoning here, based on the evidence we have, and I'm prepared to talk firmly about it. Again, not my intention to come across harshly.

The only mistake you've made, so far as I can tell, is spending so much time and energy arguing syntax with apologists.

Your energy is better spent on your Focused Feedback posts. smile

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That is a very fair point.

I've yet to actually hear back about any formal ruling on what I can and can't post, regarding some of my work related to scene choreography; there was discussion of making the rules regarding that clearer, so I could continue my work without fear of getting moderated, but I've not had an answer yet.

I should probably divert to working on some of the other projects I've had in the back of my mind instead ^.^

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Originally Posted by Niara
I should probably divert to working on some of the other projects I've had in the back of my mind instead ^.^

I have noticed a pessimistic and resigned tone to your posts. Even though Larian has sent a consistent message about their development vision, I still hope they will consider our requests for more 5E.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I won't go into the DoS thing (again), but what are you complaining about and/or what are your suggestions ?

PHB (sub-)classes and races will be added.
What is "too far from the core 5e game system" according to you ?

I'm not a TT player but I have experience with DnD video games. They're doing a very good job on some points and they have succeeded at creating more entertaining combats than a game that fully follows 5e (Solasta, a game I really love).

I'm far from saying that the game is perfect... I have critisized so many things about it that I'm probably blacklisted by Swen... But I'd like to understand you're point and what you're exactly talking about.
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Alt+ left click in the inventory on an item while the camp stash is opened transfers the item there. Make it a reality.
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Originally Posted by virion
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I won't go into the DoS thing (again), but what are you complaining about and/or what are your suggestions ?

PHB (sub-)classes and races will be added.
What is "too far from the core 5e game system" according to you ?

I'm not a TT player but I have experience with DnD video games. They're doing a very good job on some points and they have succeeded at creating more entertaining combats than a game that fully follows 5e (Solasta, a game I really love).

I'm far from saying that the game is perfect... I have critisized so many things about it that I'm probably blacklisted by Swen... But I'd like to understand you're point and what you're exactly talking about.
We all are. Tuco, me , you ....All of us.


Try reading the thread.

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Originally Posted by machinus
Originally Posted by virion
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
I won't go into the DoS thing (again), but what are you complaining about and/or what are your suggestions ?

PHB (sub-)classes and races will be added.
What is "too far from the core 5e game system" according to you ?

I'm not a TT player but I have experience with DnD video games. They're doing a very good job on some points and they have succeeded at creating more entertaining combats than a game that fully follows 5e (Solasta, a game I really love).

I'm far from saying that the game is perfect... I have critisized so many things about it that I'm probably blacklisted by Swen... But I'd like to understand you're point and what you're exactly talking about.
We all are. Tuco, me , you ....All of us.


Try reading the thread.

I did, I have nothing to add apart from memes so...not sure what 's your point. Let's not divert the thread too much by getting into this.


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I think one expects it to be the same as tabletop rpg with the possible exception of Larian pushing that in the start & adding Gimmicks like visible rolling dice, which I personally don't really care about one way or the other.

But was 5th Edition has is a very sound and balanced rule framework for tactical party-based combat, magic items that fit the balance and the game world - and with the Forgotten Realms setting a fairly rich lore. That's the kind of things I want them to transfer better than is currently the case. Especially the action economy.

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Frankly I am tired of D&D.

I think the Cypher system; Used in Numenera or The Strange for instance, is amazing.
You have a difficulty 0 to 10 for EVERYTHING; creatures, tasks, using devices, lying, encounters...whatever. (Routine, Simple, Standard, Demanding, Difficult, Challenging, Intimidating, Formidable , Heroic, Immortal , Impossible) And ROLL needed to pass that difficulty (0, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18, 21...with a D20) (0 is NO roll, auto success) for whatever.

SKILLS you have influence that 0 to 10 difficulty (lowers it or raises it > thats an inability).
EFFORT lowers the 0 to 10 difficulty (makes tasks easier) from your stat pool. Each level of effort reduces difficulty by 1.
ASSETS any gear or environmental thing that could affect this 0 to 10 difficulty.

example:
Pick a lock Difficulty 7
Skill > Trained in Burglary -1
Asset > Quality Lockpicks -1
Effort (1 level) -1
Final difficulty : 4
Instead of rolling a 21, you need to roll a 12 or better. ALWAYS just a D20.
So basically the GM determines the difficulty of tasks. THEY NEVER ROLL.

For creatures their LEVEL is their DIFFICULTY. So to hit level 5 monsters which is difficulty 5 (difficult), you need roll a 15 or better. On defense you just need to also roll a 15. If you want to try to pursuade that monster NOT to attack you? You guessed it, its a 15 to that roll.
Thats it.

Really love that approach: the rules are designed for speed and to get out of the GMs way so that they can propel the story forward. Because role playing was never about throwing dices but always about the stories!

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 17/05/22 01:56 PM.
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Originally Posted by MarcAbaddon
.But was 5th Edition has is a very sound and balanced rule framework for tactical party-based combat, magic items that fit the balance and the game world - and with the Forgotten Realms setting a fairly rich lore. That's the kind of things I want them to transfer better than is currently the case. Especially the action economy.

This is the biggest problem with BG3's design choices.

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Baldurs Gate wasn't good because of DnD it was good despite being crippled by DnD. The more DnD they get rid of the better.

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D&D is the reason any of these games are good. Maybe you should look into getting an iPhone.

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