Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 5 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
And lets not forget all these <failesd?> wink RPG games that have parties of 5+ :


Might and magic 3
Wizardry 7, 8
Ultima 6, 7
Planescape Torment
Baldurs gate 1, 2

Icewind dale 1,2
Shining force series
Fire emblem series
Lunar 1, 2
Lufia: the Legend Returns
Final fantasy IV, V, VI
Persona 1, 2
Neverwinter Nights 2
Temple of elemental Evil
Arc the lad 1
Romancing SaGa 2, 3
SaGa Frontier
Unlimited:Saga
Romancing SaGa: Minstrel Song

Suikoden 1, 2

Final fantasy tactics

Tactical Ogre
Dark Rose Valkyrie
Wasteland 2
Etrian Odyssey
Pillars of eternity 1, 2
Pathfinder Kingmaker / 
Pathfinder WoTr
Advent Dark Force
Lords of Xulimia

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 08/05/22 12:02 AM.
Joined: Jun 2019
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2019
"because having two characters put to sleep/incapacitated in a party of six is a relatively minor annoyance, having it in a party of fours can mean being forced to a reload" That is a very good point!

High level characters are much more complex to manage, no doubt, and after a certain point I just do not enjoy that, so I under-utilized the rest of the party in BG II. I don't have a multi-tasking brain, I guess. The Neverwinter Nights single campaign really tried to let you focus on just your PC, and I liked that aspect of it, but it felt really lonely because you could have only one other NPC join at a time. I don't have BG III yet, how is the party AI? As I said before, maybe the turn-based system makes this less of an issue, I just don't know.

Joined: Jul 2021
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jul 2021
Nevewinter Nights (2002) excelled with its multiplayer component, though.

Joined: Jun 2019
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2019
Yes that is true ... my dial-up bandwidth out in the mountains was not very good back in those days, so I had to live with the single player campaign.

Joined: Nov 2020
P
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
P
Joined: Nov 2020
My only complaint with NWN2 party sizes, was actually with the Mask of the Betrayer expansion campaign, where they let you have a party of 4, but then gave you only four npc companions. At least in the original campaign you had a bunch of extra characters to mix and match, but in Mask you were leaving only one person behind all the time, which was just the most unnecessary restriction. We can double up in the tents or something. Okku/One-of-Many doesn't even need a tent anyway.

If you're going to give me 8+ npc companions to pick from, I'd understand the party size restriction, because taking everyone would be an enormous party, but if your party size limit is four, and you only give me four or five npcs, that's unnecessary, just let me take all of them.

Joined: Mar 2021
M
stranger
Offline
stranger
M
Joined: Mar 2021
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Removed personal attack, that somehow is "intelligent" argument for larger party sizes

So your argument is that party size in BG3 should be bigger because I exist?

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Originally Posted by Argyle
how is the party AI?
There isnt any AI ... is it? O_o
Companions simply follow you (unless they are told not to ... and sometimes they stuck), when you are out of combat ... and you get full control over them in combat ...
You can also get full control over them outside of combat and make certain choices with them ... funny enough, those choices can be in direct contradiction with their believes and prefferences ...

Like:
When you select Shadowheart, you can trick Tieflings and save Lae'zel ... even tho when you do that normaly, Shadowheart insist you should kill her instead ...
Or when you pick any of your companion, who keeps peskin you about using the tadpole ... you can use tadpole persuation on any goblins, and then you get your tadpole powers, but the companion will be judged by the rest of the group as weak minded idiot ... and not you! laugh


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Argyle
As I said before, maybe the turn-based system makes this less of an issue, I just don't know.
For me the turn-based system makes managing multiple characters in combat more fun in BG3. 😊

Last edited by Icelyn; 08/05/22 12:33 PM.
Joined: Jul 2017
G
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
G
Joined: Jul 2017
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by Miravlix
No it's not way to small, the larger the group the more pointless each member becomes. You are basically asking for the game to be Warhammer and the "party" being an army. That is not the game we have seen in EA so far, battles is not the main objective of BG3. Most of the battles has a way to entirely avoid them, what are you going to do with those 10 party members?

This isn't a combat simulator.
Complete and utter nonsense.

Not even just the overall conclusion.
Basically every single one of your individual claims in this post is questionable on a best day and possibly a complete joke in general.

I find the whole discussion repetitive and increasingly uninteresting but your post is a bit of an overreaction, and unfair.

If there are more people to deal with, the intensity of interaction with each has to go down in a given timeframe. If the difficulty remains, the meaning of any party member in combat dwindles, and the friends of "6" always claim that the game has not to be rebalanced (while denying problems for the highest difficulty tier). That we have not seen a game where big party numbers count, is obvious (cause they don't exist), so the cited poster here is wrong when he said that the game is not about combat. I don't know wether most fights are avoidable like the cited poster said, but a lot are, and I had to reload a lot to get my combat which I avoided against my will by "luck" of the dice; for the question "4" or "6" the possibility to avoid combat is however not important, ok.

But to the core of the cited poster's post, when you say, in a later post, that having 2 of 4 put to sleep is much more of a catastrophy than having 2 of 6 put to sleep, you are right but at the same time contradict your statements in the first and following posts, because obviously the game is much harder with 4 (given the same encounters), so in a group of 6 each char is not that important and the contribution less.

So although the poster you cited is not completely right in my opinion, you are even less in your answer. The state of discussion remains; some want 4, some want more, each side has arguments.

Last edited by geala; 09/05/22 06:49 AM.
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Its true that Tuco can be sometimes unnecesary harsh ... but this dont seem to be the case. O_o
Basicaly nothing Miravlix said was truth ... so how else would you call it, if not nonsence? :-/

As for the rest ...
What are you talking about? O_o


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Joined: May 2019
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: May 2019
"The larger the group the more pointless each member becomes."
Neither logical nor true.

"You are basically asking for the game to be Warhammer and the "party" being an army."
Nobody has asked for this, and six is lightyears away from being an "army." Ridiculous.

"... battles is not the main objective of BG3. Most of the battles has a way to entirely avoid them ...."
From everything I've seen in the EA portion of the game, battles *are* the main objective in the game. And battles being avoidable is mostly a farce because the game clearly incentivizes the combat option over any and all other options.

"... what are you going to do with those 10 party members?"
How did six become ten? Again, who here has asked for ten?

So, exaggerations, strawmen, and false claims all over the place.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
I swear, If Larian had implemented a party of 5 or 6 and 10+ companions...NOBODY here would of been complaining "Its way TOO MaNy...complicates combat and sTufF....we should of had 3 or 4..." (except Rag and Ice of course) wink

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 09/05/22 02:55 PM.
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Liberec
Dont you really have anything better to do?
Licking poisonous materials for example?


Short coment on my English. smile

Anyway ... i cast Eldritch Blast!
Joined: Jun 2019
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Jun 2019
Certainly the players will always have the option to choose fewer than the maximum number of allowed party NPC's, so yeah 6 or 8 or 12 is fine with me if Larian can write them. I can say that in BG-I I was good with six, but in BG-II I found a full six was cumbersome and I was generally happier with a core group of only 4 or 5, depending on whether my PC was multi-classed.

But I do find much encouragement from Icelyn's comment that the turn-based system is still fun even with a large party. This will be something new for me, and I look forward to trying it out!

Joined: Jul 2021
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jul 2021
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Dont you really have anything better to do?
Licking poisonous materials for example?

That's the second time (at least) where you've insinuated/implied that someone should kill themselves; you once told me to go play in traffic. Arguments here can get heated, sure, but there's no reason for you to behave as a child.

Joined: Oct 2020
addict
Offline
addict
Joined: Oct 2020
Originally Posted by Argyle
But I do find much encouragement from Icelyn's comment that the turn-based system is still fun even with a large party. This will be something new for me, and I look forward to trying it out!
Hopefully you will like it as well!😊

Last edited by Icelyn; 09/05/22 05:04 PM.
Joined: Sep 2020
veteran
Offline
veteran
Joined: Sep 2020
Originally Posted by geala
If the difficulty remains, the meaning of any party member in combat dwindles, and the friends of "6" always claim that the game has not to be rebalanced (while denying problems for the highest difficulty tier).
If the difficulty is unchanged, then it's important for a 6-person party to be an option in settings, with a warning: "This game is balanced for a 4-person party. Your experience with 6 may vary." Then if people complain that the balance changes while playing with 6...who cares about their opinions? They were warned. Also, if the difficulty is unchanged, the meaning of each party member in combat remains the same (or increases). Combats will proceed faster because now the entire party is 1.5x as strong (more actually, because synergies -> "whole is more than the sum of its parts").

If the difficulty is changed for 6-person parties, then last part of your claim is moot. However, yes, in this case the relative effectiveness of each party member won't be the same as in a 4-person party. E.g., if each encounter has 1.5x as many enemies (or each enemy has 1.5x stats) then each party member effectively becomes ~1.5x less effective in combat. Although, again, you have to account for additional synergies between the 6-person-party, which increases overall (and individual) effectiveness.

Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Italy
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2020
Location: Italy
I mean.. does it make any sense? No, but most RPGs out there have a cap on the number of companions you can bring along (DA, ME, NWN, IWD etc). Even in the original BG games, only the cap was at 6.
In my opinion, the best approach is to have a few highly characterised companions who you can bring along all together instead of having tons of them and just travel with the usual 3.

I think Larian has chosen a party of four because is the realistically maximum number of people you can recruit for an online cRPG campaign. They are going for the Multiplayer experience first, sadly, because at the moment we have 5 companions, so a group of six will be more than plausible.

I think was confirmed that not all the characters will make it past Act 1 so, even with the new companions, I think we will have 6-7 of them top.

Not a fan of it, I prefer to venture forward with all my companions, but if I could tolerate it in Dragon Age: Origins, I think I can tolerate it here.

Still, again, not a fan.

Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
veteran
Online Content
veteran
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Italy
Originally Posted by geala
I find the whole discussion repetitive and increasingly uninteresting but your post is a bit of an overreaction, and unfair.
Yeah, well, that's one of the collateral effects of always bringing up the same old talking points: you'll get the same old answers.

Quote
So although the poster you cited is not completely right in my opinion, you are even less in your answer. The state of discussion remains; some want 4, some want more, each side has arguments.
Oh, but this is the easiest argument to retort:

A hard cap to six characters allow both groups to be satisfied and play how they want, while a cap to four simply does not.


Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Joined: Jul 2021
W
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
W
Joined: Jul 2021
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by geala
I find the whole discussion repetitive and increasingly uninteresting but your post is a bit of an overreaction, and unfair.
Yeah, well, that's one of the collateral effects of always bringing up the same old talking points: you'll get the same old answers.

Quote
So although the poster you cited is not completely right in my opinion, you are even less in your answer. The state of discussion remains; some want 4, some want more, each side has arguments.
Oh, but this is the easiest argument to retort:

A hard cap to six characters allow both groups to be satisfied and play how they want, while a cap to four simply does not.

Ahh, but you are forgetting the fact that i don't want you to be satisfied, it tarnishes my enjoyment of the game if you are enjoying it in your way instead of my way.

Page 5 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5