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GM4Him #815278 19/05/22 05:29 PM
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I wouldn't say ritual spells at camp only but 1/rest. This would help to make short rests valuable imo.
I.E 3 identify spells per day, 2 that can be used "fast" during the day. But it's a detail, we're talking about something that will probably not be implemented.

If short rests was :
- hit dices
- use class features
- ritual spells

And long rests was :
- hp/spellslot recovery
- companions dialogs
- level up
- prepare spells
- ritual spells
- food supply (less food everywhere : you have to find it and manage your ressources but you can also buy it if necessary - eventually an option to disable the food requirement)

=> players would at least have to think more about when and what to do when they choose to rest. Resting would be more meaningfull.

- disable long rest in dungeons except on specific spots but with a risk of encounter on these spots if the area is (still) dangerous => and you also have a meaningfull where to think about.

Such a system would not be a lot more restrictive than now. It would just add (or rework) details to the point that the system would become more what it should in such a game : an important mechanic that have real consequences in the players heads.

I cant say about data mined things.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 19/05/22 05:52 PM.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
And you would really like to manage food supply even more ? because you'd always need to have some in your inventory to short rest...
I "kinda like" the food supply system too...

But I'd rather have to watch a new easy and gameplay-wise interresting mechanic than having to manage my inventory even more...

(actual food supply system = inventory management and nothing more)
So tie it to food supplies, but include things like Goodberry, and presto, you don't have to manage it at all. You just have to have someone with the spell.

I didn't vote though, because "Leave it alone" wasn't an option.

Back to the point that the food supply system is only a gimmick in it's current implementation.

Spell = spellslots to recover your spellslots
Items = inventory management.

Gameplay-wise it doesn't enhance the resting system at all.

I find it more than a bit ironic that this forum loves to go "But Solasta", until it's inconvenient. LRs are controlled exactly this way, along with time restrictions. A spell slot is the cost there, and would be here. Aren't people going on and on about how it needs a cost? I think it's probably a year past now that I suggested making a LR require you have taken 2 SRs before you can take it, and tying food, whether through actual food, or Goodberry or similar would add a cost to it that may make it "prohibitive" to abuse it. Of course, there's my issue too, I miss a lot of stuff because I simply don't abuse the system, LR or SR... Truth be told, I forget about SRs a lot more than I take them.

GM4Him #815291 19/05/22 08:06 PM
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Not sure why you're talking about Solasta because LR in this game are controlled by spots on linear maps.
Definitely not something possible in BG3 but it suits their map design and it works very well gameplay wise.

The only moment food is the only "restriction" is on the worldmap. Rations in Solasta are pretty well balanced, not too restrictive but you have to think about it and prepare your days and/or find them as precious ressources.

Food is only the fresh cherry on a good cake that you can conveniently remove if you don't like cherry while it's a rotten one on top of a not so good cake that you can even not remove in BG3.

Something must be done to improve the mechanic but food is not the entire resting system itself. It's only a small part of it.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 19/05/22 08:08 PM.

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by robertthebard
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
And you would really like to manage food supply even more ? because you'd always need to have some in your inventory to short rest...
I "kinda like" the food supply system too...

But I'd rather have to watch a new easy and gameplay-wise interresting mechanic than having to manage my inventory even more...

(actual food supply system = inventory management and nothing more)
So tie it to food supplies, but include things like Goodberry, and presto, you don't have to manage it at all. You just have to have someone with the spell.

I didn't vote though, because "Leave it alone" wasn't an option.

Back to the point that the food supply system is only a gimmick in it's current implementation.

Spell = spellslots to recover your spellslots
Items = inventory management.

Gameplay-wise it doesn't enhance the resting system at all.

I find it more than a bit ironic that this forum loves to go "But Solasta", until it's inconvenient. LRs are controlled exactly this way, along with time restrictions. A spell slot is the cost there, and would be here. Aren't people going on and on about how it needs a cost? I think it's probably a year past now that I suggested making a LR require you have taken 2 SRs before you can take it, and tying food, whether through actual food, or Goodberry or similar would add a cost to it that may make it "prohibitive" to abuse it. Of course, there's my issue too, I miss a lot of stuff because I simply don't abuse the system, LR or SR... Truth be told, I forget about SRs a lot more than I take them.

I thought requiring 2 SR before 1 LR was smart - until someone brought it up that:

a. You can just hit both SR's and then LR without restraint, so the only thing that does is add 2 more clicks.
b. What happens if you spent all your spells slots, need an LR, but you can only use SR - like right before going against the Gith patrol. Could you get soft locked?

And Max is right. There's a big difference between Solasta and BG3 rest system. Random Encounters, linear maps with specific long rest locations, and food all limit long rest in that game. It works for that game, but BG3, not so much because you have 25+ hours of content on the same map location.

Food alone would work, but only if they severely limit it in comparison to what they dole out right now AND they'd have to somehow limit what you can buy at the vendors because later you will have enough money to buy endless food AND they would have to scrap Goodberry and Create Food spells AND they would probably have to scrap the Send to Camp function so that you can't carry too much food on you or it encumbers you.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Not sure why you're talking about Solasta because LR in this game are controlled by spots on linear maps.
Definitely not something possible in BG3 but it suits their map design and it works very well gameplay wise.

The only moment food is the only "restriction" is on the worldmap. Rations in Solasta are pretty well balanced, not too restrictive but you have to think about it and prepare your days and/or find them as precious ressources.

Food is only the fresh cherry on a good cake that you can conveniently remove if you don't like cherry while it's a rotten one on top of a not so good cake that you can even not remove in BG3.

Something must be done to improve the mechanic but food is not the entire resting system itself. It's only a small part of it.

I did get sort of derailed there. I do want to stick to my proposition though: Leave SRs alone. Despite how derailed I got in that post, however, I never claimed it was the only restriction.

GM4Him #815320 20/05/22 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I thought requiring 2 SR before 1 LR was smart - until someone brought it up that:

a. You can just hit both SR's and then LR without restraint, so the only thing that does is add 2 more clicks.
b. What happens if you spent all your spells slots, need an LR, but you can only use SR - like right before going against the Gith patrol. Could you get soft locked?

And Max is right. There's a big difference between Solasta and BG3 rest system. Random Encounters, linear maps with specific long rest locations, and food all limit long rest in that game. It works for that game, but BG3, not so much because you have 25+ hours of content on the same map location.

Food alone would work, but only if they severely limit it in comparison to what they dole out right now AND they'd have to somehow limit what you can buy at the vendors because later you will have enough money to buy endless food AND they would have to scrap Goodberry and Create Food spells AND they would probably have to scrap the Send to Camp function so that you can't carry too much food on you or it encumbers you.


Even if they did, it wouldn't matter because they would have to add some source of infinite food anyway to prevent a soft lock.
Thus, a limited rest would at best be slightly impeded.

GM4Him #815332 20/05/22 11:58 AM
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And that's the point as to why food makes a poor limiting agent for resting.

Since you brought up Solasta, that game has hit dice which limit short rest somewhat, and it works well. Even though you can short rest as much as you want, and classes like fighter get special abilities back even if they don't use Hit Dice, it doesn't matter. You don't usually spam SR because you encounter a long rest area frequently enough that you don't need to spam SR. Likewise, you don't need to spam LR because they're well-placed.

GM4Him #815334 20/05/22 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
And that's the point as to why food makes a poor limiting agent for resting.

Since you brought up Solasta, that game has hit dice which limit short rest somewhat, and it works well. Even though you can short rest as much as you want, and classes like fighter get special abilities back even if they don't use Hit Dice, it doesn't matter. You don't usually spam SR because you encounter a long rest area frequently enough that you don't need to spam SR. Likewise, you don't need to spam LR because they're well-placed.

In around 40 hours of Solasta, I've used one SR. I'm so off of using it that I didn't even recover Arcane abilities. I don't know how many LRs I had, for sure, since they're mostly done during map travel, and require food, in one form or another, whether that's Goodberry, or rations, or hunting during travel. I don't know how map travel is going to work, going from one area to another overland here. But what is it about SRs that's bothering you so much that you feel like you can't just play it out the way you want, instead of changing the game to suit you? Is it that it actually has a limiting factor on it, and you'd prefer that to be removed?

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Originally Posted by robertthebard
But what is it about SRs that's bothering you so much that you feel like you can't just play it out the way you want, instead of changing the game to suit you? Is it that it actually has a limiting factor on it, and you'd prefer that to be removed?

(I've made the following spoilers to cut down on the overall length of this post, for it's lengthy.)

There are multiple things that bug me:

SR is SO pointless in BG3. The ONLY real benefit of it is that you don't have to teleport to camp and then click on a bedroll to acquire the benefits. In other words, it's 2 less clicks, and maybe 2 minor transitions, and the results of a LR are far more beneficial - full recovery as opposed to just HP recovery. And then, to top it all off, you only get 2 of them. Meanwhile, you can LR as much as you want without penalty or legit cost.

In D&D, the WHOLE point of SR is that, as a DM, you want to try to make it so that the players are doing as much as you can possibly get them to do in a single day. You want your players to feel like they are not sucky. You want them to feel like their characters are tough and skilled. You want them to adventure for hours and then end day at the end of a quest or objective. So you allow SRs so they take an hour break here or there when needed so that they can keep going.

The main issue I have is that in BG3, I feel like I'm constantly adventuring for 5 minutes and then my characters take the rest of the day off. They run around, talk to a few people, get into a fight, and then long rest. Sure, I don't HAVE to do this, but the game allows and even promotes it.

Besides what I mentioned above, meaning SR has no real purpose other than 1 click healing as opposed to 3, one of the worst parts for me is that if I don't long rest often, my party members start complaining about how spent they are and how they need a break, or MY character will make such a comment. And then, as if that isn't enough, if I don't LR often, I miss out on some fun dialogues with party members, like Gale's Mirror Image and Go To Hell dialogues, which I rather like. (Note: The SH dialogue about "Is this a good idea, we have tadpoles in our heads is appropriate ONLY if you LR before reaching the grove. So it makes sense to miss that one if you don't LR often. However, the others could happen at any point in time, but you miss them entirely if you don't LR often.)

My point is that D&D is supposed to be played in the opposite fashion. SR should be encouraged 5 times more and LR should be discouraged so that players are LRing as little as possible.

My Suggested Solution:

In BG3, my issue is that you have multiple time-sensitive story elements, and it doesn't matter one bit how much you LR. The ritual in the grove will continue endlessly for weeks if you need it to, for absolutely no reason. The goblins never find the grove and attack it, even though you may have freed Sazza on the same day you came to the grove. She NEVER goes back to the camp and waits for you even if you spend days to rejoin her. The dragon appears in the telescope near Nadira on the hill, and it is STILL in the area and STILL near the bridge on Risen Road even if you spend weeks in the game to get there. Waukeen's Rest burns endlessly. The tadpole never gives you issues no matter how many Long Rests you use.

Stop. Right there. THAT'S what they could use to limit Long Rests. THAT would fix both long and short rests. They establish right from the beginning that you have tadpoles in your heads that could turn you into mind flayers. It could be within hours. You need to find a healer. So why not USE that to actually discourage long rests? THAT is what I mean by "timed events". Even after you find out that you may have some time, they could still use the tadpoles to discourage you.

How? Simple.

I try to Long Rest on the beach. Shadowheart stops me. "I'm not sure this is such a good idea," dialogue commences, but the end is rescripted. She explains that we could turn into mind flayers in HOURS. We could maybe take a break for about an hour, but she then refuses to rest any longer than that. "If you want to waste the rest of the day, that's up to you. I'm continuing on."

So, you can long rest, but you lose Shadowheart temporarily (able to reclaim her at the Grove) because you chose to do something stupid like Long Rest when you are supposed to try to find a healer and fast before you start to turn into a mind flayer. They establish almost immediately that you really want to find a healer fast, and her threatening to leave you if you long rest would certainly deter most people from actually doing it, especially if the game suggests (as it does currently) that a short rest is recommended. Even 2 Short Rests should be prevented by the game at this point, only allowing 1 because you're supposed to be urged to continue before ceremorphosis starts turning you (which it begins within HOURS of infection).

And here's the final part of this suggestion. They follow through with the threats. They warn you not to long rest too much, and then if you do, you start to have the Dream Lover dreams, or some other events happen that let you know that you shouldn't just long rest after every fight. You don't just have the dreams because you use your illithid powers. You start to have them because you are spamming long rest.

Bam! Right there, you have a consequence that is already in the game, mind you. They would just need to set different triggers for them.

THAT is all they'd need to do, and before I get people jumping all over time limits (AGAIN) and saying how they hate them, I'm not talking about you get only 1 week to complete EA or you turn into a mind flayer or something. I'm talking you get like X Long Rests before your first dream. Then you get another X Long Rests before someone appears at your camp and says that fortunately the ritual has been interrupted but unfortunately Rath is imprisoned (or something similar). Then X Long Rests later, Lae'zel gets frustrated and warns that you'd best go to the gith patrol and pay attention to her or she's leaving. Then you Long Rest again, and she follows through with leaving you (again, however, only temporary. You can pick her back up again once you go in that direction. As soon as you hit Waukeen's Rest, you find her in a bush. When the goblins/drow attacked, she was caught in the conflict and severely wounded. She never made it to the patrol). You Long Rest again after facing the gith patrol. That night, you have another tadpole dream.

THESE are the things I'm talking about. Timed Events that remind you that each day you take, stuff happens. Things happen. The world is changing with each passing day.

Notice, not a single one of the events I mentioned hard lock anything. You can still do Lae'zel's gith patrol quest. It's just that if you don't do it quick enough she temporarily leaves your party. She doesn't permanently leave. She just temporarily leaves.

Notice that you don't turn into a mind flayer. You have dreams that are letting you know that you are not on an endless timetable. You need to prioritize your missions.

Notice that the grove doesn't get sealed off. Something happens to warn you that you're running out of time to save the grove. You need to make it at least somewhat of a priority (if you care).

Finally, unlimit the number of short rests per day so players can use them as much as they need to for classes like fighters, monks, and warlocks who are supposed to be able to reset spell slots and special abilities per short rest for just such a reason that this helps them keep the party going even after all the wizards and clerics have run out of their spells and such. Use Hit Dice for HP restoration because Hit Dice allows you to use less potions, but there is even a limit to them so you don't just short rest forever without eventually needing potions to keep going.

ALL of these things can be done in a cRPG. It is not impossible, and it actually wouldn't take THAT much extra work UNLESS they decide to make it more complicated than it needs to be. (You don't need a cinematic dialogue for EVERY tiny conversation in the game. You don't even NEED to voice act them all.

NOTE: PLEASE DO NOT COPY ALL THIS DOWN IN RESPONSES. It's long enough as is. Thanks.

Last edited by GM4Him; 20/05/22 04:20 PM.
GM4Him #815348 20/05/22 07:27 PM
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I'm going to repeat myself about the 20th time, but whatever.
The problem is that too much depends on a long rest.
You expect too much after the game. In no DnD game that exists, there has never been a many consequence of constant resting.
The point is, what you propose takes a tremendous amount of work, and this is only the first act of the game, and not even the whole act.
Of course, they can add such things, but considering how long it takes them to create the game, it will probably be another year of delay, which will be an exaggeration.
Remember that the grove itself is not even the majority of the first act and it will be even longer at the premiere.

Whether you like it or not, the game has cinematic dialogues and they will be in the full version.
Which at the same time makes bigger changes much more difficult.
At the moment, if some of the dialogues suddenly stopped being cinematic, it would look strange and most likely I would report it as a bug.

Also take into account that the game will have different difficulty levels and if you repeat the situation from previous games, playing more than 1-2 duels for a long rest will be a challenge (at least in 1 act).
Likewise, on the lower difficulty levels, you will most likely be able to play most of the act without even resting.
This difference alone makes the balance of rests not very possible, it would have to be balanced for each setting separately.

GM4Him #815358 20/05/22 11:20 PM
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How hard is this?

3 Dream sequences, already in game, they are triggered when a player long rests x # of days. Based on difficulty, 1st is maybe 6 days for Easy, 3 for Core, 1 for Hard. Second is 4 days after that for Easy, 2 days for Core, 1 for Hard. Etc.

Now add Lae'zel leaving the party somewhere before the first dream if you don't go get cleansed. 1 extra small cutscene. Somewhere before dream one, another small cutscene about Rath interrupting the ritual.

I'm not talking huge numbers of cinematics here.

Nah. Whatever.

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[Edit: I spent all night writing this super long post on a smartphone for some reason and most of it is pointless. That’s really funny to me, so I’ll hide anything that doesn’t matter instead of erasing it.]

GM4Him, we obviously have different play styles because my LR take a lot more clicks than yours. I’ve launched BG3 just to long rest and count the operations involved.

[I proceed to go through all the steps including after-rest spells and buffs. It comes out to 13 clicks for the actual LR and 11 for day-long buffs. Moving on…]


Upon clicking on LR, the game asks me to confirm that I want to go to camp and end the day. It tells me I don’t have enough food to rest and warns that I’ll only restore up to half hp, half spellslots and no SRs. (Put a pin in that). Already 1 more click for LR than SR (+1).

I send all my food to camp and usually eat supply packs. I need to open the traveller’s chest (+2) and look for the supply packs because they aren’t at the top of the list of random junk that found their way there over 41h37min of gameplay (+3).

I then split the supply pack stack (right click, split stack, confirm split) (+6). It’s noteworthy that the default split is equal stacks, so if I’ve got four or more supply packs that’s another click to split only one from the rest (+7). I’ve only three packs left, but this is a “finished” savegame, where I did everything I set out to do. (Put a pin in that, too). During every LR that mattered, that extra click counted.

I pick the pack up and hit escape (+9), then go to the bedroll, hit auto-select and finally full rest (+12). There’s a short cinematic, then the game brings me back to a completely empty Grymforge (tee hee ^^).

I suppose the takeaway here is that this part of the game badly needs some streamlining. But the clicks aren’t over yet. Now comes the morning routine.

I’m playing Wyll, who starts his day by summoning his imp (select him, find familiar, select imp, select spot) (+16) and making it invisible (select it, select invisibility, click to cast) (+19). I’m also playing Gale, who breakfasts with a tall glass of Mage Armor (select him, select the spell, choose first level, click on Gale) (+23).

That’s a hefty total already! Honestly, it’s half the reason I LR as sparingly as possible. Now, I realize that this depends heavily on the strategic choices I made. But I don’t feel anything I’ve done so far is unreasonable or cheesy. For me at least, the convenience of SR compared to LR is well worth it.

[I go on a tangent where I count how many clicks I would get to if I used every last useful buff and trick I know (65 total). This is just me showing off.]


But wait! I don’t always end there. There’s more power to be squeezed out of the morning routine, which can come in handy depending on the day ahead.

If Wyll can profitably spend both of his spell slots, then a quick SR can bring him back to full power. I usually go with Armour of Agathys (+25) and I like to Hex the imp (+28) and resummon it (+31), which turns Hex into a bonus action, before short resting (+32).

Gale can do something similar with Arcane Recovery. The way I use a second spell slot veers into cheese territory, which I’ll address in a moment, but there are fair ways to do this so please bear with me. I cast Shield of Faith on the barbarian (+35) and recover two level one slots (+38). To maximise prepared spells, I switch back and forth between preparing Shield of Faith and Mage Armor (+44).

That’s the loadout I went with for boss fights and I thoroughly enjoyed it. It’s over the top but it’s not an everyday occurence nor is it the absolute cheese limit. Most days, I stick to invisible imp plus Mage Armor and look to pick an easy fight in order to spend the relevant spell slots and use rest & recovery to fully power up the party. (Put a final pin here). Conversely, I added the invisibilty ring to the morning routine for the massive Nere fight (+46). In fact, that ring is hella broken. You can pass it around the party to make everyone invisible, which involves opening and closing the party panel three times (+64).

Sixty five clicks per LR is a ridiculous number. To be sure, it’s fueled by UI inefficiencies, strategic decisions, heavy cheese and my own incompetence (I’ve never been able to use hotkeys and when Gale turned invisible he broke concentration on Shield of Faith…) but it shows the steep admin cost of LR compared to SR. As a reminder, my basic LR takes twenty four clicks.

GM4Him, I understand that you wouldn’t use half the tricks I did. I know how you feel about Wizards’ exploits. Maybe Wyll hexing his imp crosses a line for you (though, to me, summoning a creature to sacrifice it for power feels very flavorful for a warlock). Maybe you use no PC that has any use for morning buffs. I believe you when you say you go very quickly through long rests.

Here’s the point within the point: I’m having a ton of fun playing exactly the way you’re describing and I think you could too.

[The next part is kinda relevant, explaining how you can be your own DM if you stick to self imposed rules. I’m cutting it anyway because I’m on a roll.]


For my patch 7 playthrough, I took a page out of RagnarokCzD’s playbook and set my own rules. I allowed myself some amount of cheese, but there were also restrictions. No shoving or hiding during combat; no barrelmancy; limited looting; supply packs only, except when roleplaying victory feasts.

More relevantly, the day didn’t end until I felt the party couldn’t take any more of a beating. A day’s worth of punishment might be trying to clear the spider lair, or casting jump on the barbarian and teleporting the party into the hostile goblin camp, or just running around Grymforge, looking for the ancient forge by triggering every trap and ambush.

In this respect, I’m taking on the role of the DM as you’ve described it in this thread. I’m playing the game my way and it’s a blast! Yeah, I’ve been insta-lava-shove-killed more than once, but I gave every bit as good as I got and victory felt all the sweeter because I followed my own code.

I know it’s not the same. When the game imposes restrictions, the player placed in tight corners, which is where things get interesting. If you have to head into the corner yourself, you’ll always have the path to safety in the back of your mind. But for now the resting system is what it is. While we wait for its next iteration, I have a challenge for you, GM4Him.

It’s called supply golf. The aim is to engage with every available quest and encounter while consuming the fewest possible supply packs. You may not consume any other food. You must strive to use “organic packs”: either starting supply packs or those found or looted. You may buy packs from merchants, but not steal packs from them unless coerced by necessity. No stealing supplies from companions you don’t use unless you kill them. (You don’t need to kill everyone you meet, roleplay as you please). Every “organic pack” left over at the end is worth 1 under par. Every pack bought or stolen from a merchant is worth 1 over par.

[Next, I explain why this game is so cool by referencing stuff I’ve mentionned before. This is my magnum opus.]


I think that challenge will make you appreciate the short rest. Remember all those pins we planted ten thousand words ago? Firstly, there are real consequences to having no supplies, which include being deprived of SRs. You might miss them if you need them.

Secondly, supply packs aren’t that plentyful. I finished a 40 hour run with only three supply packs left! Notably, I ate actual food once or twice, bought at least one supply pack and have so far ignored the hag’s swamp, the risen road and most of the underdark. (I just realized that my score’s not doing great, also that I didn’t look all that hard for packs, so maybe there are more than I think.) Supply packs are also strategically placed throughout the maps, giving an indication of how many days each area should take to clear.

Thirdly, the desire to stretch out the day permeates every decision in the game. It’s fun in a cerebral way if you know what lies ahead and can plan your day accordingly. In unknown territory, the fun becomes visceral. Because you don’t know what might be coming around the corner, you start taking more risks to preserve stamina, like using a level 1 Magic Missile though level 2 would clinch it or trying to get through an entire fight without using the barbarian’s rage.

That’s when you have to think about whether to SR early to power Wyll because doing that wastes a bunch of hp and object actions but not doing it could expose him during the first encounter, because he’d be pretty much locked into casting Hex. You start really valuing those SRs, like when you’ve decided to head into the hallway of fire for the third time that day and you still haven’t figured out how not to trigger the traps, which is fine because potions of fire resistance last all day but still a little worrisome because the barbarian had to tank the hallway twice already because you only had three of those potions, and by the way, guys, we’re also down to one potion of greater healing, so let’s SR one last time to heal the barb and try to find the real exit for real, OK?

In conclusion, I suggest you try playing supply golf, GM4Him. See what trouble you get yourself into and find out if it’s fun for you at all. I’d be interested to know your score and read an account of that game. For my part, I’m off to see what the Githyanki patrol thinks of my invisible death machine of a party, and then loot their corpses for supply packs.

Last edited by Flooter; 21/05/22 06:28 AM. Reason: Everything

Larian, please make accessibility a priority for upcoming patches.
GM4Him #815369 21/05/22 06:06 AM
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The resting system as a whole is not a lot better if you only use supply bags and short rests aren't more interresting or meaningfull.

(I can't even understand that some players are fine with it.
What's the next step in crpg ? Buttons to auto regain HP because its sooo coool in BG3 ?)

But at least the food supply system makes more sense and become pretty cool.

What you're doing after click 12+ is not related at all to the resting system.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 21/05/22 06:17 AM.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
What you're doing after click 12+ is not related at all to the resting system.
To me, summoning the imp and casting Mage Armor are part of the cost of a long rest because a long rest ends those effects. Still, I edited my previous post to seperate those steps from the long rest.

I believe you if you say there are more than enough supply packs. I’m tired of looting so I’d didn’t look that hard, and it made the game better for me. Win win!

Last edited by Flooter; 21/05/22 06:23 AM.

Larian, please make accessibility a priority for upcoming patches.
Flooter #815371 21/05/22 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Flooter
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
What you're doing after click 12+ is not related at all to the resting system.
To me, summoning the imp and casting Mage Armor are part of the cost of a long rest because a long rest ends those effects.

I believe you if say there are more than enough supply packs. I’m tired of looting so I’d didn’t look that hard, and it made the game better for me. Win win!

Definitely better if you only use supply bags. There are more than enough but you have to look for them and on top of that if you dont use the camp chest, manage your inventory becomes better too (for food ofc, it doesnt solve the other issues).

Some of us already suggested that the game should ask for supply bags to rest rather than allowing to do so with every banana and so on. You know, because a game need rules and day 1 players wont have in mind that "I have to create my own rules because the resting system wont matter if I dont".

Your 48 clicks are only a part of your strategy as you said, thats what I meant. If I'm only playing with supply bags and with my inventory (no chest) my own LR are basically 5 clicks.

Not sure its a relevant value to define the appeal of the entire system.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 21/05/22 07:23 AM.

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GM4Him #815384 21/05/22 11:53 AM
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Wow. So much knit picking. The overall point I was making was that LR is only a slight inconvenience. So the value of SR is really quality of life. It's healing with a single click as opposed to going to camp and getting full healing.

Yes. LR CAN be more time consuming. Dialogues may occur, etc. But especially in late EA, when you LR, it's pretty much pop to camp, click bedroll, click auto-food select, watch campfire, back to map. Instead of 1 second heal, it's maybe 10? And the benefits of LR are way better?

Again, my issue is 5 minutes of adventure, 24 hours rest. THAT is BG3. And it's encouraged by the game. I can't tell you how many times the characters say, "Gosh. I'm tired. We should get some rest.". After 5-10 minutes of adventure. I have literally LR'd on a number of occasions, and almost immediately, even before a single fight, had characters say we should get some rest. It's dumb.

Last edited by GM4Him; 21/05/22 01:22 PM.
GM4Him #815387 21/05/22 01:27 PM
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in my opinion should follow dnd5e rules.

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Originally Posted by Archaven
in my opinion should follow dnd5e rules.

Yeah. Problem is that it's not that simple. They have to program a way to limit resting like a live DM would. THAT is the trick. That's why we're endlessly discussing it.

A live DM would say, "No. You can't rest in the burning nautiloid after defeating 3 Devourers. You need to find a safer location first." A live DM would say, "No. You've triggered the hag side quest. You can't long rest until it's done. I might let you short rest, but no ;ong quest.". And a live DM would not make the hag so tough so that you needed to Long rest before fighting her so you could do the entire quest without needing a long rest.

The main issue with BG3 has to do with what also makes it so awesome. Freedom. You are free to trigger the hag quest but then free to walk away. You aren't locked into completing it. Same with all the quests.

So, the result of freedom is that you are free to trigger the quest and then long rest as much as you want. Why, because you are free to go in whatever direction you want. If long rest is locked, you wouldn't have that freedom.

That's why I think the best solution isn't locking, it's soft penalties. Trigger the hag and long rest. She's still waiting for you because it's a game to her, but now she's more prepared. Maybe she has minions now to help her whereas if you faced her right away she'd be alone. That is what I keep trying to say. Small, easy to implement consequences to discourage LR and encourage SR.

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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
What's the next step in crpg ? Buttons to auto regain HP because its sooo coool in BG3 ?)
Auto-regaining HP/resources (presumably after fights) is a perfectly fine mechanic to use. However, the game should then be designed (or at very least balanced after the fact) for having full hp/resources each fight. And this is the problem I at least have with BG3. Larian has made very few efforts to balance classes to be equally strong for a single fight where you're expected to expend all your resources, but Larian also hasn't placed limitation on resting (in fact, BG3 encourages frequent resting via camp cutscenes) which encourages going into each fight will full resources. Basically they try to have it both ways.

The 2 things that do increase the power of martials per fight are:
1.) Weapon abilities - effectively giving martials pseudo spells, usable per short rest=per fight
2.) Everyone can use scrolls - literally giving martials spells (but also making all casters much more flexible)
Both of these act to close the power gap between martials spellcasters, and the former in particular are effectively per fight abilities. However, I'm skeptical that Larian implemented these mechanics in order to balance classes around single fights with full resources. Especially since there are other decisions (e.g., Quicken's implementation) which increase the power of casters too.

I would be ~okay if Larian made sweeping changes to the D&D classes to balance all classes around assuming each fight is entered with full resources. I'm not confident Larian would do this well, given the past mechanic decisions they've made (surfaces, high ground & backstab advantage, Haste&Quicken implementation, etc), but I wouldn't necessarily disagree with the goal. I've enjoyed many games with cooldown combat systems.

GM4Him #815394 21/05/22 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Wow. So much knit picking.
You’re right. I apologize for that. And I acknowledge the length of my LR is irrelevant.

I still suggest you try to be your own DM. You can absolutely push your party beyond the point when they ask for a rest. You know the game well enough to find the right challenge for the ressources you have available. Some fights need everything you’ve got; most don’t.

This isn’t a solution to the overall problem, nor is it helpful for new players. This is a friendly suggestion that might be a welcome change of pace.


Larian, please make accessibility a priority for upcoming patches.
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