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Hi guys,


Yet another suggestion for the resting / fast travelling system.
A very detailed one. I think nothing is an issue in multiplayer. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


RESTING IS IMPORTANT


Resting is a core mechanic of DnD. It define the game, it define the rules, it define the experience.

Long and short rests define the classes, their gameplay and their uniqueness.
It also define the gameplay. Short rests allow you to make significant tactical choices while long rests are a real break in your journey.
You're leveling up. You're choosing what you're going to eat. You choose the spells to prepare for the next day.

A few other core mechanics are balanced by resting. The spellslot system itself doesn't make any sense if resting is not defining the rules.

BG3 oversimplified resting and a main feature has become a convenient healing button while the other one is only a convenient healing button with a few (and cool) companion and story cinematics.
They also added the "choosing what you're going to eat", which is cool. But it's not enough gameplay and story-wise.

This thread is also related to the fast travel system so I'll talk about it too.
Try to understand the big picture rather than each points one after the other. This is the description of a system I'm trying to explain. My exemples may not be perfect, I may have forgotten some locations and so on...


MAIN CAMPS AND MINI CAMPS - LONG RESTING AND FAST TRAVELLING

Mini camps are cool and they add another RP dimension to resting.
But it won't ever be 'immersive' if you rest in another dimension out of danger when you choose to rest in the middle of a dungeon, and if you're teleported in exemple to a "spider nest mini camp environment" when you long rest in the hag's lair.

I'd like to rework the "main" and "mini" camp system to redesign what they are.

- Main camps = camps located on main areas. Main areas are : Outside, Underdak, Grymforge. If you click to the long rest button, you're fast travelling to the main camp depending where you are.
- Mini camps = camps physically located on specific "closed" area. You cannot fast travel to mini camps. You have to click the campfire to enable it and allow long resting.


The idea is to enhanced to dungeon to make them become real "dungeons". We should not be able to rest whenever we want and wherever we want to sleep in dungeons. That's their main design purpose.

Of course dungeons are not dungeons if it's filled with friendly creatures. What is a dungeon and what is not should be clearly defined by the game.
We should not be able to fast travel out of "hostile dungeons" but it should not be too challenging. The point is not to make the game harder. 2 combats between two long rests seems fair.

- We aren't able to click the long rest button in specific areas
- We aren't able to fast travel in specific areas
- The game set a few interactive items in specific spots. You have to click on to enable the mini camp. After you click the item the sleeping bags appear and the fire is lighted. Another solution would be that after you enable the mini camp, a small area arround it become a "long resting allowed room").
- When we click a campfire (active mini camp) our characters sit on their sleeping bags or something like that. You now enter the "long rest in mini camps gameplay phase" and something systematic and systemic should happen to tell it to the player.

-- There is a mini camp to set up in :

--- the goblin's dungeon
--- the hag's lair
--- the spider nest
--- the entrance of the necromancer lair
--- the zentharim's lair
--- the owlbear cave
--- the dank crypt

- We cannot fast travel or click the long rest button (have to click an active mini camp to long rest) in these areas :
-- the goblin's dungeon (after you kill the first leader)
-- the hag's lair (if you fight with her in the tea house)
-- the spider nest
-- the entrance of the necromancer lair
-- the zentharim's lair (if you have killed one of them)
-- the owlbear cave
-- the dank crypt
-- *the grove tunnel
-- *the emerald grove

*The additionnal areas are very small areas with eventually 1 combat. A combat you cannot avoid if you have the specific "permutation".
For areas in which there's a mini camp, at worst you come from the oustide (fast travel + long rest allowed) and have 2 combats before you can long rest in a mini camp. Most often it's one, and sometimes you can put the camp before any encounter (i.e cellar in the necromancer's lair).
Not being able to get outside dungeons through fast travelling when you're in a hostile dungeon would greatly enhance the resting system but it doesn't mean : a harder game, a mechanical limitation, a tedious walking phase is you want to move to a main camp (at worst, 10 to 30 seconds).

The more you rest, the more you spend food.

- We should only camp with our 4 active characters.
- We shouln't have our camp chest in mini camp.

We may have to manage our supplies a bit more (eventually, thx to goodberries) and have some in our inventory. But the game is not harder if you don't use your chest to gather all the food and keep some food in your inventory (i.e 1 or 2 supply bags)
At worst, as already stated it takes 10 to 30 seconds to get out of a dungeon to enter a location in which you can fast travel or click the long rest button.
At best I guess it could really be a situation players like. "We don't have food, check the area guys." For players like me, it would make "food supply management" an interresting gameplay mechanic.

- You cannot prepare your spells and level up if you're not in a main camp or in a "long rest at mini camp gameplay phase".
-- During the "long rest in mini camps gameplay phase" you can :
--- do anything you can do at your main camps (except roaming, talking to characters that aren't with you and pick things in your chest.. Mostly talking about consumables, inventory and hotbar management, check you character sheet and so on...)
--- prepare your spells
--- level up
--- choose your food supplies upon what you have in your inventory

It's not harder if you have to camp to level up or to prepare your spells. That's why scrolls are usefull for and at worst, you only have 1 more combats before being able to long rest or 10 to 30 seconds to walk.
The game should consider and show us that "preparing our spells" as an important decision even if players can easily find a solution if they forgot to prepare something that is absolutely necessary (nothing really is imo).

- Cinematics / dialogs only occur in the main camps (i.e Raphael, Companions dialogs, handcrafted events,...)
- If a character has something to say related to his personnal story, a yellow ! can appear on their portrait (rather uppon it's head) and they can say something like "I'd like to talk with you in our camp, could we stop there tonight please ?"

- The food supply system is reworked. There is now 3 rests levels :
-- 1 to 49% food = you recover 25% of your spellslots/class features/hit dices (minimum 1).
-- 50 to 99% food = partial rest = you recover 50% of your spellslots/class features/hit dices (minimum 1).
-- 100% food = full rest = you recover 100%% of your spellslots/class features/hit dices.

It doesn't make sense that you have the same rest levels from 1 to 99% of food supply.

- Resting at a mini camp automaticaly save the game. The game lack auto saves.


===> The system as a whole should enhance the game immersion-wise, story-wise, gameplay-wise, experience-wise. Players that disagree with the "gameplay enhancement" are not limited and they have convenient solutions if necessary.
===> It should make it a better DnD game and it should lead to a better role-playing experience told by a DM who provides a more coherent overall narrative.


SHORT RESTS

Short rests should allow us to make tactically interresting decisions.
It should be more than a button to regain a few HP and it doesn't have to be complicated at the same time.

- The hit dice system should be implemented and should be under the player's control. An "auto roll button" is possible ofc.
- We should only be allowed to use the class features that are active during a short rest in the PHB (i.e arcane recovery) during a "short rest gameplay phase".
- When we short rest our characters could gather (or something like that), waiting for us to end our "short rest gameplay phase".
There have to be some kind of systematic and systemic short "cutscene" that shows the player that he's entering another gameplay phase.

-- During a short rest gameplay phase you can :
--- Roll your hit dices
--- Use specific class features
--- Use specific consummables
--- Manage your hotbar and your inventory, check the map, open the character sheet and so on.


Not complicated and not very intrusive. At worst you have a 3 second "cutscene" + click the auto roll button + click the "arcane recovery button" + see 3 second cutscenes. 10 seconds lost.
At best it's tactically interresting, we have a real break to manage or check whatever we want, it contribute to ... the classes uniqueness through different hit dices and class features (being able to use a class feature during a short rest is a feature by itself).


EVENTS AT CAMP

The world is frozen in BG3 and every systems from NPCs to time are only reacting to the player's actions. No one seems to live outside the players decisions.
In RPGs well designed worlds should give the feeling that they're alive. I will focus on resting but of course, there could be more suggestions to improve this feeling (NPCs routine, story events, Day/night cycle,...).

BG3 has to implement events that can happen randomly. Not random events or encounters. Scripted events that have a chance to happen under specific circumstances.
The best solution would be to create events in camps. It's an "easy" choice because there are in a specific dimension (closed area). On top of that, there are already cinematics in those camps. The 3 main camps.

When our characters arrive to the surface or the underdark camp (not sure it's usefull for the grymforge camp), when they're sleeping or eventually when they wake up... some events may trigger.


Random encounters are often boring. It could eventually be a "type" of event among other, but it should never be more than that.
cRPG needs to rework and rebuild the classic "random encounters" and BG3 could be one of the first game with well designed and interresting gameplay-wise handcrafted events that appear randomly under specific conditions.

In my opinion this would also create psychological limitations to long resting. Players have to think about it, just a bit. It's not really a gameplay issue if they don't, there's always (or most often, as you which) a pacific solution to these events.
At worst there's a very small negative effect, at best it's a very role play and enjoyable situation.

On top of that it would be a small step to another core mechanic of DnD. The "ressources management".
It does a bit with the food supplies but it's only about items / inventory management. In my opinion it works well in DnD video games when you also have to manage your class features and your spellslots.
These events doesn't create mechanical limitations but it create conditions that will make some players think that they have to be carefull when they choose to use a spellslots or a class features. You don't always know when you may need your last spellslot.
Once again, at worse it's a very small negative effect for someone, at best it's a mechanic that improve the game world-wise, story-wise and gameplay-wise to someone else.

In my opinion it would create a feeling of insecurity, a notion of uncertainty that would make the world more alive, the story more consistant,the gameplay and the overall experience more interresting.


Exemples.

- You arrive at your camp. A cutscene trigger. The characters staying at the camp are all hidden. You see your group approaching and you see 3 wolves are looking for food.
What are you doing ? You have 3 options.

-- You stay hidden. The wolves are leaving, you loose 20 food supply (whatever where they come from), the long rest at camp gameplay phase start.
-- You try to distract them, sending food further. Skill check. Success = you loose 10 food, the wolves are leaving. Fail = you loose 10 food, you have to fight. The long rest at camp gameplay phase start.
-- You fight them. You're fighting in the camp with your 4 characters. You don't loose any food and the long rest at camp gameplay phase start.


- You're sleeping and one of your characters is woken up by a girl crying. Your characters now stands on their feet and the girl is running to your camp. She ask for help and a few bandits appear. A dialog start and they ask you to deliver the girl.
What are you doing ? You have 4 options.

-- You're okay. As an evil person just like you, they take the girl and give you something (a potion, 30 gold, a scroll or whatever)
-- You' choose the second dialog. Intimidation check. Success = they leave. Fail = they fight.
-- You choose the third dialog choice. Another check. Success = they ask you to pay for her. Agree = they leave, Disagree = they fight. Fail = they fight.
-- You fight them to save the innocent girl.


- You arrive at your camp and you see a group of goblins eating.
You have 4 options. What are you doing ?

-- Talk with them to explain that the camp is not abandonned. You invite them to eat. You loose 20 food supply and they leave.
-- Talk with them. Skill check. Fail = combats. Sucesss = they leave.
-- You try to surprise them. Skill check. Success = Surprise round. Fail = first round with disadvantage.
-- You just fight them, usually.

Thats is just exemples.

I don't think Larian would have to create tons of "mini handcrafted dialogs/combats". With this whole system in mind an average player should not long rest in the surface or the underdark camp more than what ? 20 times ?

With a pool of let's say 10-20 events for act 1 would already be awesome (5-10 for the underdark main camp and 5-10 for the surface main camp).
The game should not be ashame if it doesn't have 50 different events to show. Players are bored of random encounters because it's only 1 event again and again.

If the % to trigger those events are well adjusted and if conditions are well defined, most players should not see all of them in a single playthrough.
Ofc every event shouldn't occur more than once. And if the players are resting way too often it's not a problem, nothing happen anymore.

On top of that, conditions to trigger events could be a little bit more elaborated depending the number of different events.
- We could say that the "wolves" events may only trigger IF you have Lae'zel in your group or in your camp. So she's hidden, but sh come to talk with the main character we he arrive at camp to explain the situations.
You have 0% chances without her in your group, 30% with her (or 15%, or 10%, or 50%,...)
- We could also imagine that events only appear IF you have made specific choices. IF you have killed the druids, IF you have killed the goblins,...

Whatever there are a tons of possibilities to create something really interresting.
It's better to experience than seeing the same cinematic handcrafted 7 times for each minicamps, it also enhance the game and the resting mechanic world-wise, story-wise, gameplay-wise, role play wise,...

+ It could also be a thing in mini camps, eventually. But the main focus should be on main camps imo.


FAST TRAVELING THROUGH A MAP

I'll re-post this one here because it is very important immersion, gameplay and experience-wise according to me.

Choose a location to move to is a gameplay feature. Click a name on a the list isn't a good one. And it's also not a good visual presentation.

We're playing with a not really good region map for monthes. The map when you click "M" give usefull information (at best) when we're roaming the land. But most of them are useless when we're fast travelling.

What do a player have to know when he's going to fast travel ?
- How to go to villages and other important spots
- Where there's an active quest, which quests and and eventually your progression.
- Eventually where there are merchants or other specific things.

Being able to exactly see on which path we're going to be teleported if we choose a specific destination is not a usefull information.
We have to locate the main points to choose where we're going. Beautifull icons (and there are on the worldmap) are only what players need.

A world map or a region map that has the same "kind" of design than the worldmap
- One for the Surface
- One for the Underdark
- One for Grymforge

With icons representing important locations you can travel to.
M or "fast travel button" = Open this map with icons.
You just put you mouse upon one of them, it's now highlighted, eventually a popup opens to "say something usefull", you click on it, eventually a confirmation popup. Done.

This would absolutely increase the value and the appeal of the map design, the environments and the sceneries because our DM would show us on a beautifull world or region map the noticeable spots on the area.
Exactly like when you visit a town. The devs should show us what is beautifull to see in their world and what "site" or "monument" we could visit.

Immersion, and eventually lore-wise, it is also important that we don't have the feeling that we're magically teleported everywhere.
Exactly when we visit a town with a tourist map, it would give the feeling that we're roaming and walking an unkown land, discovering everything between the noticeable sites of the map.

It also allow to "physically" locate the main camps (even if it's in an independant closed area) on a map players use often, especially if a click to the long rest button was sending us to this map to confirm the long rest/fast travel to camp.
It would give the feeling that we're looking at a region map before travelling to a location. Not that we used our superpowers to be magically teleported or OP tons of magical portals no one but Gale has ever noticed in the area.

It could eventually allow you to give additionnal informations (i.e a small mini camp button, greyed or colored depending if it has been activated yet or not, detailed quests lines on a "mini quest book" showing every quests individually when your mouse is on the "active quest" icon,...)

There's only pros, in my opinion.

We're playing with a terrible (I have to say it again) region map for more than one year. Something not working well because it doesn't represent the world well when you don't already know it, but also not very helpful gameplay-wise.
These maps are ok for secondary area but not to show the act 1 big picture.

Ofc course it doesn't prevent to keep a 100% not so good gameplay "region map" when we click "M" and another one when we click the long rest button. Or a zoom in/out with a transition between the 2 maps.

Anyway please Larian. Focus a bit more on immersion and the way you're writing the story with us.
Everyone would be winners if the maps and the job of your map designer (2D/3D) were better presented to the players.

===> Beautifull icons on a beautifull world or region map to fast travel, please.

Link to the first suggestion with a picture of something I had in mind a few monthes ago. Everything may not be up to date with what I've said here.
https://forums.larian.com/ubbthread...s=fast+travel&Search=true#Post727408

That's it !
Thanks for reading. I hope you'll agree with this one. i really think it would be a great and elegant solution to translate the PnP rules in a very good DnD based video game.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 20/05/22 08:43 PM.
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With such a long list of suggestions / fixes / "how to do it"-type of feedback, I am bound to disagree with at least one suggestion. And I doubt that even just a handful of players, if any, will 100% agree. But 100% agreement is not the point. Thanks for taking the time to write a detailed feedback post, and in doing so summarise a lot of ideas that have been aired lately.

My only comment, unsurprisingly, will be about the first paragraph, about why resting is important and why the current system in BG3 doesn't work.

I wouldn't have gone as far as saying that Short/Long Rest defines DnD 5E. That being said, yes, this distinction between the two Rests, just like Reactions or Advantage, is a typical 5E element.
Thus, I suppose an argument could be made that these typical elements probably should be implemented at all, to start with, and not be butchered, on top of that. So as to retain the impression that the game is based on 5E, just a bit homebrewed. Not "vaguely inspired by DnD but then we discarded all the things we didn't like and we never paused to see if that was a little or a lot".
I'm not saying the Short-vs-Long Rest is good aspect of 5E. Just that it is somewhat iconic. Likewise, spell-slots, as well as the difference between Spell Level and Caster Level are typical DnD thing. I think they're retarded, and thankfully not widely used in too many other CRPG, but it is hard to discard them and call the result a DnD game. Anyway, I said "an argument could be made", and preserving what is typical of DnD 5E isn't the argument I would go for.


The better argument in my view is that of resources, which you mentioned.

From a pure mechanical point of view, Long Rest is Recover-All-Resources (Hit Points, Racial Abilities, Class Abilities, be they class-unique like Sorcery Points or more widely used like Spell Slots). Short Rest is Recover-Some-Resources. And these Rests are, themselves, resources. This is not ground-breaking, and some Larian designers know it. By making Rests freely available, while changing nothing else throughout the ruleset, Larian completely alters the balance. (Yes, I've used the B-word. Sorry, it was hard to go around it. Please don't call me a min-maxer.)

If Larian wants to remove Short Rest (which is effectively the case when Long Rest is free), then Battle Masters, Monks, Warlocks, and all the Short-Rest (Sub-)Classes should see their resource pool tripled.

If Larian wants us to start every encounter with full resources, they should significantly decrease the number of resources (e.g. Spell Slots) that fully rested characters have. I wouldn't go as far as saying that free Long Rests completely invalidates Spell Slots. But it certainly invalidate damage cantrips : why bother with Fire Bolt or Sacred Flame, when we can spam Magic Missiles, Scorching Rays and Guiding Bolts ?


Anyway, all this to say, I would have put the mechanical argument first and the iconic argument second, in "resting is important" paragraph.


Hoping we'll be able to create great assumptions-free Custom Characters and be given great roleplay options.
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Honestly, it's like this for me:

Short rests are hard limited to 2.
Long Rests are essentially unlimited because you find tons of food so the food mechanic currently is pointless.

What's this say to me? Short rest is pointless, and long rest is pretty much the same as running up to the blue glowy chambers on the Nautiloid which heal you instantly. Is honestly rather have the blue glowy chambers everywhere that full heal me completely than the strange rest system we have right now. At least I wouldn't be adventuring for 10 minutes and sleeping for almost 24 hours every single adventuring day. And I REALLY hate the companions constantly saying they're tired when they shouldn't be, and if I rest, they harass me for it when they're the ones who say they want to rest after only adventuring for 10 minutes.

Remember, every battle is only like 30 seconds at most in the game world.

All this to say that for the most part I agree with Max on the overall concepts. In my opinion, short rests need to be encouraged and long rests discouraged more. You should stretch out each adventuring day as much as possible, trying hard to long rest as few times as possible while short resting more so each day is longer. That's how D&D is designed.

To do this, un-hard-limit Short Rests. Use Hit Dice like 5e calls for. This WILL limit short rests but encourage more of them as opposed to jumping to long rest so easily. It also makes Action Surge and Second wind and Warlock spell slots SO much more meaningful and powerful.

As for Long Rests, just SOME sort of discouragement is good. Don't have characters asking to call it a day unless you've exhausted hit dice during short rests. Have them, in fact, discourage long rests by making comments like, "Are you sure? I've still got plenty left in me for the day," or something of that nature.

And SOME sort of discouraging encounters would also help to set the tone in the minds of players. You CAN rest as much as you want, but maybe you shouldn't. Bad things might happen.

Anyway, I like Max's suggestions. They are TONS better, imo, than current gameplay.

Maybe later, I'll share all the encounter ideas I came up with on the fly. Yes - on the fly. If I can come up with 10 chance encounters off the top of my head, Larian certainly could as well and more especially if they put a bit of effort into making them really fun and interesting.

Slow clap, BTW, Max. A lot of work went into your post. Well done.

Last edited by GM4Him; 27/04/22 03:28 AM.
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So logically why block spell switching to the main camps? This change does nothing.

I do not see the point of mini-camps at all. In practice, it doesn't change anything in the game except the need to constantly step back to rest. The same can be solved by simply blocking rest if enemies are nearby. The effect is the same and the mechanics are less problematic.
I also don't understand why block the rest when you can just go outside and rest normally. As you wrote yourself, it is not even 30 seconds.

When it comes to stocks, the game should be less restrictive in this respect, not more. Stocks should be automatically pulled out of the box when resting. When I have to cut through the annoying inventory system, I want to do it the least often.
Another thing is that you need to put food back and forth to the mechanic for the mechanics alone. Literally adds nothing to the game.
Need for inventory management is not pleasant for mechanics if the game is not survival.

In my opinion, a short rest should just heal the team to full hp. I don't see the slightest reason why it doesn't yet. It would give a short break some reason to exist, because at the moment the amount of hp restored is simply pathetic.

When it comes to "random" events, frankly speaking, they wouldn't bother me as long as a) they are limited b) it's not a 90% fight.
From myself I will only add that this is not the slightest limitation in rest as long as there is a shortcut for fast saving and loading.

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Originally Posted by Rhobar121
So logically why block spell switching to the main camps? This change does nothing.

I do not see the point of mini-camps at all. In practice, it doesn't change anything in the game except the need to constantly step back to rest. The same can be solved by simply blocking rest if enemies are nearby. The effect is the same and the mechanics are less problematic.
I also don't understand why block the rest when you can just go outside and rest normally. As you wrote yourself, it is not even 30 seconds.

The need to "constantly" (which is really not as suitable word) step back is to create some kind of limitation or pre-requisite before resting.
Blocking rests if ennemies are nearby won't change the feeling that you're magically teleported to your camp and it won't help to create a consistent "dungeon experience".

2 things :
- The game tells the player that he cannot rest except if they found a campfire. Which is what most players should do because that's what the game suggest to do. They'll play the dungeons as dungeons, without going back and forth.
- At the same time, the game doesn't mechanically limit anything. You're never stucked and you can eventually walk a bit more to get back to your main camp (if you haven't found the minicamp yet, to pick things in your chest or to have a companion cinematic, because that's the only mechanical differences).

About blocking spells, it makes the long rest phase more meaningfull and so become the players decisions.
The game should consider "preparing our spells" as an important decision, even if players can easily find a solution if they forgot to prepare something that is absolutely necessary.
Nothing is mechanicaly "absolutely necessary". You'll really enjoy your next rest if you want to try a specific spell you have forgotten to prepare.


Originally Posted by Rhobar121
When it comes to stocks, the game should be less restrictive in this respect, not more. Stocks should be automatically pulled out of the box when resting. When I have to cut through the annoying inventory system, I want to do it the least often.
Another thing is that you need to put food back and forth to the mechanic for the mechanics alone. Literally adds nothing to the game. Need for inventory management is not pleasant for mechanics if the game is not survival.

I agree with one of your point. We should be able to automatically pick chest food in our main camps.
But you also use the word "survival". That's what a dungeon is supposed to be. An environment in which you have to survive.

Having a little bit food with you is not a big deal. Finding food is not a big deal too.
Inventory management is not complicated because there's food supply to gather. The inventory itself is an issue in exemple that comes with the user interface or the tons of items we can pick. It's absolutely not food specific.

The suggestion adds "some kind of survival dimension" in area that require them without being extremely limiting or tedious to manage.
In my opinion it's definitely not more boring manage 2 or 3 supplies bags in my inventories than having to right click specific items in my inventories then send them to chest (and add in the current system, open the chest, pick some items, eventually open it again to put the extra food you took back into it if you have miscalculated).


Originally Posted by Rhobar121
In my opinion, a short rest should just heal the team to full hp. I don't see the slightest reason why it doesn't yet. It would give a short break some reason to exist, because at the moment the amount of hp restored is simply pathetic.

I obviously disagree, but our starting points may be the same.
Short rests in BG3 are convenient healing buttons. We'd both like them to be better buttons but our ideas are different. I want this button to become a gameplay mechanic while you want it to become more convenient. At least we agree that this button needs to be reworked smile

Last edited by Maximuuus; 27/04/22 07:34 AM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
And SOME sort of discouraging encounters would also help to set the tone in the minds of players. You CAN rest as much as you want, but maybe you shouldn't. Bad things might happen.

To be honnest, I'd like to have suggested possible events eventually more combats oriented if you rests in mini camps depending the situation.
But many people here are getting sick when they heard something that makes them think about "random encounters".

So I gave the basics. It could be improved ofc.

And the event suggestions you made in private message, without necessarily being all very suitable for this suggestion are all very inspiring.
Here is the list, I forgot to post it yesterday after I wrote this wall of text and turned off my computer at 1:30 am.


Quote
Scenario 1
Wolves - You return to camp just fine and your party has gathered around the fire to eat dinner. Suddenly, you hear movement. A pack of wolves enters your camp. The alpha is a Dire Wolf. There is 1 regular wolf per character in the camp (so all origins plus MC would be 6 wolves and 1 Dire Wolf). The wolves are hungry, and they have smelled your food.

You have 4 choices
1st : Flee - They let you escape to the back of the camp where you climb up on something so it's hard for them to get you. You lose an entire Long Rest worth of Camping Supplies (currently 40).
2nd : Distract them - You make an Animal Handling check of 10 or higher. If successful, you manage to catch the attention of half the pack. They follow you as you flee to where you climb up on something so it's hard for them to get you. The rest of the pack eats their fill, including the alpha.
Then the alpha summons the back when he's done, and they all leave. Thus, you only lose half Long Rest worth (currently 20) of Camping Supplies as only some of the wolves ate some of your food. If you fail, you have to fight. (See option 4.)
3rd: Intimidate them - Make an Intimidation check of 10 or higher. If successful, you scare the wolves away. No food loss. If failure, the wolves attack. (See option 4.)
4th : Attack - Wolves don't fight to the death. Each one that loses half their health flees to edge of camp and thus flees combat. If alpha is reduced to half health or less, he also flees, and the whole pack then flees. During the fight, wolves will dart in and steal food during the fight. You will lose as much food as they are able to steal. So, some will attempt to steal food as opposed to attack you. During combat, you have the ability to minimize how much food they take, but you may also suffer greater injury, etc.

Scenario 2
Looters - You return to camp to find a group of 8 Bandits is trying to rob you. Any party members you left (including Volo and Halsin and Scratch, etc. - Withers is just not there) at camp are tied up and unconscious. They were ambushed.
You have 4 choices.
1st : Hide and observe - They load up their packs and steal ALL your stored items at camp. If you selected this option, you will get a second chance to stop them. The game will ask, "It looks like they are about to take off with all your stored goods. What do you do?" You can then choose to either let them take all your stuff (and they do), Intimidate (see option 2), Persuade (see option 3) or Attack (see option 4).
2nd : Intimidate them ("Drop everything or die!") - You have to succeed in a 10 or higher Intimidate check to make them drop your stuff and leave. If you fail, you have to fight (see option 4).
3rd : Persuade them ("Hi. Nice to meet you. So, what can I do to convince you to not take all my stuff?") - You have to succeed in a 15 or higher Intimidate check. If you do, you also have to bribe them with 50 gold. If you can't pay, they give you the choice of backing off and letting them steal your stuff, or fight. If the former, they take all your stuff from camp. You lose everything but what you have on your party. (Any party members at camp who are tied up and unconscious also lose all their gear.) If you attack, see option 4.
4th: Attack. Like the wolves, bandits don't fight to the death. If they think it's not worth it, they'll flee. Unlike the wolves, they aren't trying to snatch and grab. They're trying to beat you down or chase you off so they can run off with your goods. So, they will drop your gear on the ground and fight you. If they lose half HP, they flee. And like the alpha male, if the bandit leader (NOT bandit captain stats but maybe buffed bandit stats - like double normal bandit stats) suffers half HP loss, he flees and everyone else does as well. If they flee, they take nothing. If you flee, they take everything.

Scenario 3
Goblins - A goblin patrol (4 goblins and 1 goblin boss) finds your camp and sneaks up on you to ambush you while you're sleeping. Random roll is made to determine which camp member is on watch duty. That character makes a Perception check versus the goblins' stealth checks.
If successful, the party member on watch wakes everyone. No surprise for the goblins. If failed, goblins surprise the party and get into close range with weapons at everyone's throats.
You have 5 choices.
1st : Attack - You initiate combat. If you were not surprised, combat is as normal. If surprised, all your party members, except the one on watch, are prone. Thus, they all have disadvantage against melee attacks if they lose initiative. They also have to use movement to get up on their turn. There is no surprise round, for the surprise round was the goblins getting into close range. Goblins, like others, will only fight until half HP lost or until their leader flees.
2nd : Ambush (Only available if the party member on guard duty alerts everyone.) - Party immediately ducks into hiding. Each has to succeed in a Stealth check. Whoever wins Stealth check gets to act in a Surprise Round. Those that fail do not and act as normal. Also, those that succeed in Stealth get advantage as long as they remain in hiding during the Surprise Round.
3rd: Hide and Observe (Only available if the party member on guard duty alerts everyone.) - Same as 2nd option except that you don't attack. You just watch and see what they're going to do. The goblins enter the camp, ransack it a bit, take some of your items (Half Long Rest of Camping Supplies, currently 20, and maybe 50 gold and/or 10 random items you had in storage at camp - pays to maybe not always store stuff at camp) and leave as they laugh and eat your food and drink your water/wine. This option allows you one last chance to Ambush before you lose whatever the goblins take. You can either choose to Ambush (option 2) or Let them go.
4th : Deceive - Make a 10 or higher Deception check. If successful, you convince the goblins that you are allies, and if they mess with you and your companions, they will have to answer to their superiors for it. They will then agree to leave you alone (taking nothing). If failed, a fight ensues. (See option 1.)
5th: Intimidate - Make a 10 or higher Intimidate check. If successful, they flee and even drop a few of their own items because they're so scared. If fail, they fight.

Scenario 4
Thieves - A group of 4 thieves is trying to sneak into your camp to steal your stuff while the character you have set on watch isn't looking. You, however, have awakened to spot one of the thieves attempting to pick the lock on your storage container. Two others are rifling through backpacks, and the fourth is trying to keep an eye on everyone in your camp, as a lookout.
You have the following options
1st : Attack - Fight ensues. Looters immediately grab backpacks and attempt to flee with them. Only those who have to get past your party members will fight. Otherwise, they all just try to flee with the packs. You must kill the thieves with the two packs before they reach the edge of camp, or you lose 10 random items per pack and/or 50 gold per pack and/or 10 Camping Supplies per pack.
2nd: Sneak up on the lookout - Stealth check of 12 or higher. On a sucessfull check, you sneak up on the lookout and slit his throat. You can then go to options 3, 4 or 5. On a fail, the lookout spots you and alerts his companions. Fight immediately ensues. (See option 1.)
3rd: Sneak up on the one by the storage container. Same as option 2. If successful, you can go to options 2, 4 and 5. If fail, you are spotted. However, the individual at the container takes an automatic hit from your character, thus starting combat with some damage already. (See option 1.)
4th: Sneak up on the thief by the pack on the right. Same as option 3.
5th: Sneak up on the thief by the pack on the left. Same as option 3.
6th: Intimidate - Make an Intimidate check of 10 or higher. If successful, they flee without taking anything. If failed, they attack. (See option 1.)
7th: Persuade - Make a Persuade check of 10 or higher. If successful, they apologize for trying to rob you. They didn't mean any harm. Then they flee.

Scenario 5
Fishermen - You awaken to find a fisherman sifting through your supplies. Your character on guard duty has not spotted them, but you have awakened to see them messing around with your supply crate.
You have the following options
1st: Attack
2nd: Wake your party, sneak up (Stealth) and surround
3rd: Sneak up (Stealth) and pin down (Athletics opposed)
4th: Persuade. Say, "Excuse me. What do you think you're doing?"
5th: Intimidate. Say, "Hey! Get outta here!"
6th: Let the fisherman break into your supply crate and steal some food. (Lose enough Camping Supplies for 1 Long Rest, 40 supplies currently)

Regardless, the fisherman attempts to flee. If you tried talking, he succeeds in fleeing towards the exit of the camp (wherever that might be) where he seems to wait for you. You can then either pursue or let him go. If you pursue, he attacks. If you let him go, he finally does leave and the encounter ends.

If you attacked, pinned or surrounded, or you pursued him to the exit of the camp, combat is initiated. Surprise! Two more fishermen then appear at the exit of the camp. All 3 fishermen have low health, but after they die, intellect devourers spring out. They are regular devourers, so resistance and everything. They can devour intellect and body thief as well. Except your tadpole prevents both. Thus, giving you a slight advantage as they waste a few attacks attempting to do such things. After they realize you aren't good prey, and you have tadpoles, they flee.

Scenario 6
Boggle - You're at camp. A boggle suddenly uses dimensional rift to pop up on the party and steal an item from a party member (something small but valuable, like a Dagger + 1 or Shortsword + 1 or an onyx stone or other gemstone). Boggles aren't inherently evil. They're chaotic neutral. He's like a Kender from Dragonlance. He's just curious about the item and has taken it because he's interested.
Party spots him and can:
1st: Attack - He immediately flees. As he does, he cries out for help. Four more boggles then arrive to help him. They all work to flee your camp. If he and/or they reach the edge of the camp, they rift away and the encounter ends. No food loss.
2nd: Persuade - DC 10 and he'll gladly give the item back. "I was just curious, is all," he tells you. "No harm done. Here you go." He then becomes your friend and says, "You nice. Me like you. Me and other boggles, we be friends now. If you need help, boggles help. We mostly live in bog, but me wander and see you and follow you here. I is good wanderer. You in bog, we help. Yes. But... um... not against hags or redcaps or anything at the docks. Those is all scary places. But anything else." Then he concludes by saying. "Say, friends eat friends' food. You food good." He opens another rift, steals some food, and bounds away while eating it. "Thanks, Friends! Me won't forget." You lose 1/8 Long Rest amount of Camping Supplies (currently 5). However, you find that he left you 5 gold in return.
3rd: Intimidate - DC 10 and he'll fearfully give the item back. "I's sorry! Please don't hurts me! I's was only lookin'! I's sorry! I's sorry!" Then he runs off. In the morning, you wake up to find that you are mysteriously missing half a Long Rest worth of Camping Supplies (currently 20). Boggle footprints indicate that he left and returned with friends who made off with your food. Little miscreants!
4th: Capture - Try to capture him by using Athletics to grapple and pin - Same as option 1 except that if the Athletics roll succeeds, the boggle is slippery and manages to break free of your grip immediately before combat begins. They have slippery oil that they excrete, so they are great escape artists.
5th: Observe - Stealth check 11 or higher. If successful, you follow him to a quiet corner of the camp where he's examining the item. He plays with it and then sets it down and dimension rifts away. Fail and he hears a noise. This scares him, and he dimension rifts away with the item. You lose the item.
6th: Let him go - Same as option 5 except in the morning you find the item and retrieve it.

Scenario 7
Ghosts - Your party spots ghosts flitting about and hears wails echoing throughout the camp. This wakes you up.
You have the following options:
1st: Persuade - Try talking to the ghosts, DC 10. If you succeed, the ghosts appear and are friendly. There are four children. They tell you about how they live in Moonhaven. It's not far from your camp. You should go there. They have a blacksmith and a pharmacist and a miller, but many go down to the Chionthar and fish. Then one of the children seems to shudder. "But the Pharmacist," the girl says. "He's... He's... Don't ever let him catch you alone." She suddenly twists and jerks violently as her appearance takes on a more zombie-like one. "He's not a normal pharmacist. He's a..." The other children also seem to be having the same issue. "Murderer," they begin to chant. "Kidnapper. Murderer," they repeat in ethereal voices. "Stay away from the Apothecary!" Then they wail and vanish. If you fail, they become hostile, flitting about wailing as they dance around your camp. "You're with HIM, aren't you? You're his friends. The Necromancer! The Necromancer! We know you're with him. We know you're his friends! Murderer! MURDERERS!" Then they attack, having quarter HP of typical ghosts and no Possession abilities. They're children and only do 2d6+3 damage also with their withering touch. The battle lasts for only 4 rounds, regardless of how much damage you do to them (unless you destroy all four).
2nd: Ignore them - They disturb your rest that night. You only gain half Long Rest due to the moanings, wailings, sounds of children laughing, etc. that occur all night long periodically through the night.
3rd: Turn Undead (Cleric Only) - Cleric chases the child ghosts away, and you benefit from a peaceful night's rest (and maybe gain a +1 bonus to all rolls for the next day as the cleric has purged the area of restless spirits.)
4th: Necromancy of Thay Option Only - If you have the Necromancy of Thay, the ghosts will immediately become hostile, appearing before you with frightening appearances. "The book! The book! It's all because of that book! He kidnapped us! He murdered us! All for his experiments! You are his friends. You have the book. You must die." You can either Persuade them to not kill you, DC 15 to tell them you plan on destroying it, or you can give them the book to appease them. If you give them the book, they will take it and vanish. If you do not succeed in the Persuade roll, or you refuse to give them the book, they will fight you to the death. (Remember, they only have quarter HP and only do 2d6+3 damage with withering touch. They also cannot possess. However, they will not stop until you die, and they have many resistances and immunities.)

Scenario 8.
Suddenly, while you are all having dinner at camp, they beaten and bloodied up halfling woman stumbles into camp. She cries out to you and begs for your help. She asked you to save her. Before she can explain further, six armed men charge into the camp. When they see you they pause. They demand that you hand the halfling over immediately. She is a runaway slave and a criminal. She tells you that yes she was a slave, but it was only because they are slavers and they kidnapped her. She is a refugee from Elturel and they accosted her on the road.

An insight role is made. 10 or higher. If you succeed, you determine that she is telling the truth. If you fail, you believe that the armed men are telling the truth.
Either way, you can:

1. Turn her over to them.
2. Turn her over for money. Persuade check 10 or higher to get 100 gold. Failure means they refuse to pay. You can always fight them.
3. Persuade them to leave and let her go. Persuade check is 10 or higher. You must pay them a bribe of at least 50 gold. 100 gold if you fail. You can refuse to pay and fight.
4. Intimidate. Check is 15 or higher. Failure means you have to fight.
5. Attack. These thugs were sent by someone to get her back. Therefore, they are too afraid to go back without her. They will fight to the death.
If you save her, you can direct her to The Grove to take refuge. She thinks you most profusely, and she takes off The Grove.


Scenario 9.
Rats. Eight giant rats. This scenario is sort of a throwback to the PlayStation Baldur's Gate game. No matter where you are, You can always run into rats.
An alternative for this scenario would be spiders. Both giant spiders and swarms of spiders.

The event begins with one character at Camp chosen at random to be ambushed and swarmed by the creatures. Spiders would immediately try to ensnare the person in webs. The objective of the encounter is actually to save that character from being killed and dragged off out of the camp. Your party is surprised. The enemy gets a surprise round to try to kill or poison to unconsciousness the character that is targeted. If they reduce the character to 0 HP, they drag the character towards the edge of the camp. Your party must reduce the creature to 0HP that is attempting to drag the incapacitated character to the edge of the map. Especially now that you can pick up characters, this is something that you might be able to do to save the incapacitated character - basically pick them up and throw them back towards the campfire.

If you succeed, the character is saved and remains in your camp. If you fail, and the creatures reach the edge of the map, that character is lost to you. They are dead and cannot be resurrected.

Scenario 10
Dryad - You are sitting off by yourself in quiet contemplation about things when suddenly a dryad steps out of a tree using her tree stride ability. She immediately tries to charm you, Wisdom save DC 14.
If you succeed, you fight it off normally. If you fail, the tadpole suddenly stirs.

1. Do you give in to the dryad's charm
2. Do you give in to the tadpole's power?

If tadpole, it comes to your aid to defeat her charm, but you will now have a Dream Lover dream, etc.

If you resist either on your own or via tadpole, you can:

1. Attack - She flees immediately by stepping into the tree using tree stride again,. The encounter ends.
2. Try to talk with her about why she tried charming you.

If she charms you, or you talk to her about the situation, she explains that she's been watching you. She likes you and thinks you will save her forest from the evils in it. There are cultists and goblins and their allies everywhere. Will you be her hero?

1. Agree to be her hero - You agree, whether charmed or not. She is beyond ecstatic. Then she gives you a ring, placing it on your finger. "You are my mate now," she tells you. "The ring binds us.". It is a ring made of roots with some flowers on it. "If you do something I approve of, I will aid you. If you do something I don't like, I will hinder you. Serve nature, especially my forest, and we'll be fine. Oh, and you can never leave the forest... Ever. You're mine now. Love you!". Then she giggles and darts into the tree.
2. Reject her request - If charmed, you must make a DC 14 Wisdom roll to reject her request. If you succeed, or you outright reject her, she leaves, very forlorn, stepping back into the tree. If you fail, you accept. See option 1.

If you are her hero, you gain a magic ring that is cursed. It grants you the ability to cast Entangle and Goodberry 3/day, and Barkskin, Pass Without a Trace and Shillelagh 1/day but ONLY against enemies of the grove (goblins, cultists, etc.). The spells are disabled against the tieflings, druids, the hag, etc. You can also talk to animals.

If you leave the forest, you suffer disadvantage on all rolls, unless you are going to the goblin camp to kill off the goblins. So, beyond Moonhaven, the bog, spider lair, Underdark, the road... All disadvantages. Only the forest and goblin camp grant you powers.

There are three ways to remove the cursed ring:

1. Use the tadpole. An option that should pop up if you select Unequip or you try to remove it. Doing so moves you a step closer to the Dream Lover.

2. Kill the goblin leaders and wipe out the camp. She will then appear to you again that night during the celebration and she has decided to release you from her engagement. She's got someone else in mind now - and she indicates Rath. So you are free to be with whoever you desire.

3. The hag's lair. One of her potions releases you from the cursed ring. Broken Promises, or something like that.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 27/04/22 07:59 AM.
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Just another thing I'd like to add to this one : "unexpected" encounters at mini camps, as an improvement of the old ra dom encounter system.

Let me explain.

In every dungeons, a few groups of creatures have the "patrol" status. When you long rest inside a dungeon, you have a chance to be interrupted before you sleep by one of these patrols.

Let's say you're long resting in the goblins temple at the mini camp spot. You havent kill yet 2 "patrols" (lets say 2 groups of 3 goblins), so you have x% chances to fight them. If you kill them, they're obviously dead after you have slept : The dungeon is a bit more clean.

2 pros :
- a risk for sleeping in dangerous area (ressources management, world feel more alive, resting is more meaningfull)
- the combats are not a filler and mobs are not trash. It serves your objectives.

It could eventually apply to main camps, to every area and to scripted events.
Let's say a group of goblins from the goblins camp are attacking you during the night. There's a dialogue as described in the first post to make things interresting AND it has consequences on the world (there's less goblins outside the goblins camp).

It could also be a group of gnoll or a single gythianki that has lost the patrol... I guess you have thr idea.

IMO unexpected encounters would be a great improvement of random encounters in cRPG.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 20/05/22 08:54 PM.
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I really like the idea of camp events and I’m hoping with all my heart Larian are planning something like this.

Firstly, the game engine clearly allows them because they’re already in the game. You’ve got two versions of a party during which some fairly dramatic things can happen. You’ve also got Raphael who says words.

Secondly, it would be the perfect way to make Scratch and the owlbear cub relevant. Imagine an ambush waiting for you at camp, but Scratch notices it, barks and your party avoids a surprise round. Or maybe the cub gets its revenge on goblins who’ve come for your loot.

Thirdly, the traveller’s chest is placed in some truly absurd spots in several minicamps. In one instance, it’s hidden between two pews behind a closed door. What if there’s something hiding back there, waiting to strike?

There is a design challenge, though. As you pointed out:
Quote
You don't always know when you may need your last spellslot.
Camp events are an incentive to long rest more, not less. Because you don’t know who you might find at camp, you’re more willing to waste ressources at the end of the day. Here’s my pitch to fix that.

Camp events should be used as a soft timer to get players moving along. Essentially, as players stay in an area, the enemy becomes more and more aware of them. One morning, Gale says “I think we may have been spotted. We should finish up what we’re doing or expect company tonight.” From then on, the player is warned. The enemy will start by sending scouts and increases the challenge each time. To be clear, these encounters shouldn’t happen every night. Ideally, there should be a little randomness involved.

“Enemy” is a very general term, here. Maybe vagrants walk into your camp asking for food. They knew to look for you because everyone around has noticed where you sleep at night. “By the way,” they warn if you feed them, “there are bandits about who may also know where this camp is.” Or maybe wolves who steal some food one night come back with more numbers a few days later.

This way, players in a dungeons will try to stretch their days in the beggining, hoping to avoid triggering the warning encounter. Then, they will be kept on their toes with possible camp events.

Last edited by Flooter; 22/05/22 06:13 PM.

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I'm not one of those saying that Larian should "limit long rest" (so players cannot rest when they want to). In my opinion having to wisely think about how and when to spend your ressources (spellslots and class features) should remains the main focus.
I agree with your statement : having to manage your ressources because of unexpected events would probably encourage players to take more long rests. It's not an issue to me if the long rest mechanic as a whole is more engaging and central to the gameplay than what it is now.

Your suggestion is interresting imo. To get back about the "unexpected encounters" I was talking in the previous post, we could easily imagine something like this :
- First long rest in a dungeon = 10% chance to be spotted by a group of sentinels
- Second long rest in the same dungeon = 20%
- Third long rest and more in the same dungeon = 40%

(values given as exemples)

Last edited by Maximuuus; 22/05/22 07:47 PM.
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For me personally:

I'd get rid of fast travelling unless it's between actually different zones (let's say Surface and Underdark).

I'd allow long rests to be in specific actual locations on the map only. It should be either a camp (with a simple quest of establishing it, but it should be right there in the game not in some pocket plane) or in a camp of friendly npcs (an inn, a castle, etc.).


The main issue is that even with all that people would still go there and rest after every wolf/goblin and it would be nothing but inconvenience.
In real life dnd sessions it's usually story itself that limits long rests. But BG3 does not even have passage of time atm. And it most likely won't have it. We have to prevent hit-and-run-and-rest-and-repeat but people will still do it even if it's inconvenient.

The only actual solution to this problem I somewhat like is to have sub-zones (goblin camp, spiders lair, dungeons and so on) and its states - cleared/not cleared. If it's clreared, you can rest however you want (go to the camp or right there), if it's not, you can short rest right there, but you have to go to the camp for the long rest and in this case it's repopulated with enemies. And cleared state would mean deaths of all major enemies there. The problem here is people would kill the same named npcs several times which is bad also. Dunno, really. Maybe it should be just non-named npcs who repopulate the sub-zone after long rest. But in this case people would probably do kill-a-leutenant-run-long-rest-go-again.

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agree, as it is now, camping could be completely replaced with a much more QoL enjoyable menu to manage inventory, some vendors and party management. The (bugged) cutscenes could simply be triggered by pushing the rest button while having the "camp mechanics" in an optional menu for when needed. As it is now, the camp is super boring random place with no physical or logical relation to the game world and it functioning as a kind of forced story progression bottleneck feels very artificial and unnecessary (e.g. why can't our companions have these conversations while we're simply doing our stuff ? Why would this weird undead tomb dude hang around my camp instead of saying something like: 'hey btw if you ever need some resurrection scrolls, I have plenty laying around here at the dank tomb, so feel free to come by if you wanna buy some."
If our camp wont be a real reachable location in the released game I will be utterly disappointed, it feels like a forced and badly designed and written "quick fix" to properly trigger cinematics and story stuff while forcing you to lose time because stuff that could better be managed by menu's (party management, camp inventory, etc) needs to be done "in person" (e.g. walking up to an NPC to tell them to stay in camp or join) making those tasks tedious and slow. The fact that the story progression atm is a bugged mess, all tying in to a not credible camp further increases the feeling that camp is simply there for the convenience of the game devs. That it is being badly executed on top of that makes it all the less convincing and all the more immersion breaking.

Totally different game (and budget) but if camps really need to be a thing tied into the story that also forces players to 'simulate' physical tasks representing mundane game mechanics (rest, inventory management, etc) perhaps Larian could have a look at how RDR2 implemented them. Here too, your camp is a hub with important NPC's where you need to go for stuff like inventory management and which is tied to story progression. HOWEVER:
- the camp is a physical location on the world map
- the story is not simply tied to camp merely mechanically, it also figures prominently in the story and even linked to the start or end of the game's chapters. Hence, the story of where and why our camp is what it is and where it is are an integral part of the main story, not just a convenient effortless way to 'not explain' stuff and group all cinematics.
- the camp and NPC's feel real, these are (storywise and visually) real camps where NPC's are "living life" in camp, meaning they cook, sleep, argue, have fun etc. in camp. They are not just standing there, frozen in time, waiting for you to click on them - expressing their sudden need for interaction with the player character by conjuring a floating exclamation symbol.

So I would argue that camp needs to be a living place where stuff happens independently of you (admittedly, this is one of those things where BG3 in general, is not even trying) , not a bug ridden abstraction which although evidently designed to streamline the game's story progression, exists totally independent from this story in a parallel universe totally detached from the game world. The immersion breaking and unsatisfactory execution of our camp as a location and narrative elements is further augmented by how actually nothing happens in camp except triggered animations and conversations, as well as by how little actually 'is' in our camp that actually has a purpose (basically only the sleeping rolls you click to rest, all the rest is simply a weird and inconsistent collection of cosmetics like that cage or the ruin).

Suggestions:
- make a physical location on the map as camp and integrate it into the story: why do we end making camp there and not somewhere else ?

- try to avoid having NPC's being frozen statues in our camp for our convenience. I actually don't give a fuck about what Volo has to say when he becomes a decorative camp element, instead put him in a tavern or around our campfire and let him shine by annoying everyone with his story telling (e.g. the way we meet him in the goblin camp) rather than just giving up on his life to simply stand and await orders indefinitely at our camp.

Story wise, I can't imagine none of the current camp dwellers having a reason to put up with this, yeah sure, a long visit to our camp, why not. But Halsin sticking around in camp instead of doing something about the shit that happened to him ? Really ? An undead creature awoken from his tomb to open a small resurrection scroll shop in our camp ? A tad-polled NPC we just met who goes on rants about how urgent our common issue is but which is fine with just waiting forever when ordered so by a random stranger ?

Instead it would be much better to find alternative locations for many of these, that also tie into the story: e.g. Astarion joins the absolute and can be found/recruited/fought in the goblin camp when not recruited or left outside of party for too long, the dank crypt dude taking care of his temple, Halsin doing something about the grove or meeting you somewhere on his way to the harpers, Lazeal looking for or having joined the patrol, etc etc.

- add directly accessible menu's or buttons for recurrent camp functions like party management and inventory. If we should suspend our disbelief regarding the pocket plane camp in the eternal sunshine realms of abstract geography, then we can for sure also suspend our disbelief sufficiently to have a party management, camp inventory menu, and simply sleep/rest button rather than having to move/click our PC.

- if you don't explain it , then don't show it and if you explain it try to not give us the cheapest excuse of an explanation imaginable. Main questions for me atm regarding camp: What is our camp and where is located and why so ? Why do we always go to camp when it is dark ? Why are those people we just met or seem to have very pressing reasons to do different stuff simply standing in our camp, doing nothing, saying nothing ... ?

EDIT: sorry, no time to edit so probably some mistakes and repetition left but at this point i don't see why I should make an effort posting to this forum when Larian themselves can't be bothered to even give us any response in two years of EA...

Last edited by SerraSerra; 24/05/22 08:25 AM.

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I just want to post a +1 to everything SerraSerra wrote.

Joined: Jan 2009
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I definitely think Short Rests need to be improved into something which is much closer to the pen and paper version. Healing should be based on hit dice, which you can spend one at a time, or use "auto" which spends as many as it takes to get you up to full, Arcane Recovery should be a thing. I don't know if attunement will be in this game, but if it is, short or long rests should be how you attune to items.

Solasta does short rests very well, although I think it has them unlimited, and a limit of 2 or 3 in BG3 would be better.

Solasta also has designated long rest camps, although they might be a little generous (save for the final dungeon which has a ton of encounters with no camps - although the game did warn you that there would be no time for long resting).

I don't have solid opinions on the best way to handle long rests in BG 3, with all the story stuff during long rests. Long rests should recover half your maximum hit dice pool.


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