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Any of you have an SDK kit for the divinity 4.0 engine? How hard would it be to reverse engineer DOS2 modding tools for BG3? I was asking because i seen mods that add abilities for the game already. How would this work conceptually?

1) rolls are determined by your character stats like in KOTOR then using the 1d20 system. You would change the pass fail mechanic to a roll of 20 [WeMod already has this code for an auto 20], then you would add point requirements to pass?

2) you would need to alter all abilities to a flat damage and standardize all enemy hp? Or maybe hits could be percentage based on enemy HP

3) how feasible is it to add feats to BG3, is it easier to just modify them?

4) the classes are already some what similar in DnD 5.0 to 3.0, we would need to change their names and change icons for abilities? Is this do-able?


I am asking you the community if this project is feasible? I think with enough people it would be do-able, and i think it would help sell the game as a lot of people dislike 5th edition. Let me know your opinions. thanks

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I'm not sure you've got any evidence stock for "as a lot of people dislike 5e" being valid to any appreciable degree. The majority of threads and feedback on this forum over the past year have been in the direction of wanting a more faithful rendition or less of larian's 5e-divergant homebrew.


To be honest, your idea for a project sounds like an ambitious amount of work in order to make the game more flat and boring; good luck with it, but I doubt you'll find traction.

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Please do yourself a favour and try out one of the recent Pathfinder games instead. They are good games, and use the Pathfinder d20 system, which is quite close to 3.5e.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled
Any of you have an SDK kit for the divinity 4.0 engine? How hard would it be to reverse engineer DOS2 modding tools for BG3? I was asking because i seen mods that add abilities for the game already. How would this work conceptually?

1) rolls are determined by your character stats like in KOTOR then using the 1d20 system. You would change the pass fail mechanic to a roll of 20 [WeMod already has this code for an auto 20], then you would add point requirements to pass?

2) you would need to alter all abilities to a flat damage and standardize all enemy hp? Or maybe hits could be percentage based on enemy HP

3) how feasible is it to add feats to BG3, is it easier to just modify them?

4) the classes are already some what similar in DnD 5.0 to 3.0, we would need to change their names and change icons for abilities? Is this do-able?


I am asking you the community if this project is feasible? I think with enough people it would be do-able, and i think it would help sell the game as a lot of people dislike 5th edition. Let me know your opinions. thanks

From what I remember the engine is just a modified version of larians previous games, I would check out the modding community for DOS2 since its just a tweaked version of that.

Anyway I'm guessing so, 5e is just a watered down version of 3.5, if your going for more of a 4e that would be harder I'm presuming.

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Originally Posted by Niara
I'm not sure you've got any evidence stock for "as a lot of people dislike 5e" being valid to any appreciable degree. The majority of threads and feedback on this forum over the past year have been in the direction of wanting a more faithful rendition or less of larian's 5e-divergant homebrew.


To be honest, your idea for a project sounds like an ambitious amount of work in order to make the game more flat and boring; good luck with it, but I doubt you'll find traction.

DnD5 seems more popular because it is the one that brought in a lot of newer players from the younger generation, that in itself does not make it better, many youth are just to lazy to work out how the old version works. Some of the best rpgs have always used the 3.0 version because the OGL [open game license] provides so much more to work with then 5.0. Modders could do a lot more with BG3 if they use the 3.0 set up. Yes there is the legal question- is modding a 5.0 edition to be a 3.0 legal? My understanding is that because it is licensed by Larian Games, you would not be able to make the mods paid, otherwise you can mod it?

That is why i am asking here. @Larian are we allowed to mod the game to 3.0? Is it feasible? Since the game is still in early access, this could be useful for modders going forward.... i am myself not a modder, but i plan to learn to make mods. Thanks

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I'd much prefer 3.x over 5th edition rules. 5e is hot right now in many ways because it is streamlined and more accessible, but one of the main advantages of making a computer game is that so very much of the complexity is easily handled by the computer for you. Honestly I really miss 3.x's weapons and armor for example, or stuff like touch/flat footed AC, or having monsters and PCs play by the same rules.

That being said, redoing the game in 3.x ruleset might be beyond the capabilities of modders. Certainly something that would be quite the undertaking of one or more seriously dedicated and skilled modders who had a strong enough desire to see the game modded into 3.x.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled
That is why i am asking here. @Larian are we allowed to mod the game to 3.0? Is it feasible? Since the game is still in early access, this could be useful for modders going forward.... i am myself not a modder, but i plan to learn to make mods. Thanks
Fyi you're not going to get a response from Larian on these forums. They only (rarely) respond to bug reports, usually involving the game completely not launching.

But in general for most PC games, all mods are allowed (or at least not worth the devs time to take down) as long as they're free.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled
DnD5 seems more popular because it is the one that brought in a lot of newer players from the younger generation, that in itself does not make it better, many youth are just to lazy to work out how the old version works. Some of the best rpgs have always used the 3.0 version because the OGL [open game license] provides so much more to work with then 5.0. Modders could do a lot more with BG3 if they use the 3.0 set up. Yes there is the legal question- is modding a 5.0 edition to be a 3.0 legal? My understanding is that because it is licensed by Larian Games, you would not be able to make the mods paid, otherwise you can mod it?

That still sounds like a whole lot of "no evidence to suggest that people don't like 5e" ^.^

Might it interest you to know that since 5e launched, there hasn't been a single major game launched that uses 3.0 or 3.5?

Originally Posted by Leucrotta
5e is hot right now...

Might it also interest you to know that 5e is, as the official edition, older and longer running now that 3.0 OR 3.5? It has actually had more time as the official game edition than any other edition, in fact! It's not the 'new hotness' - it's the edition that has had the MOST staying power of ANY D&D edition, at this stage. Yes - it's actually been that long, believe it or not... and unlike 4e, which showed its lack of popularity and was functionally scrapped within two years, this one has drawn people in and retained old players alike, and has shown its longevity.... whether you personally like it or not.

As an aside, I'm curious, to leucrotta - What part of 5e are you under the impression has monsters and PCs not playing by the same rules? They do play by the same rules, they're even built using the same rules and strictures, thee same progression, the same rules governing hit dice and proficiency bonus, etc., their abilities and saves are derived in the same way, their damage is derived in the same way... They absolutely play by the same rules as player characters do.

Quote
That is why i am asking here. @Larian are we allowed to mod the game to 3.0? Is it feasible? Since the game is still in early access, this could be useful for modders going forward.... i am myself not a modder, but i plan to learn to make mods. Thanks

At the end of the day, your question is simple: Mods are Mods - there is no legality or permission involved because they are mods. You don't need any license or permission to mod a game into something else, because it's protected, legally, as transformative work, or fair use laws, or the equivalent rules in your own country. You can mod the game to be tits and arse nudie sex adventure if you want (SatSA for NWN was amusing ^.^) - you don't need permission.

The issue, rather is that Larian have already shown that they really don't like D&D much, and would rather not use it, don't understand it, and would rather keep the game as closely aligned to their original game engine designs as they can rationally get away with without alienating too many fans (and they've pushed that boundary hard before beginning to reel back)... So if you're looking for a 3.5 D&D experience, this is most likely not the game for it, and you'd do better finding another game that's more like what you're after too begin with. Some of the first mods out, and some of the most popular mods currently are mods that bring BG3 more into line with 5e rules than it currently is - a complete 5e conversation/fix mod is currently being developed and updated, and is already one of the most popular/in demand mods readily available.

If it's what you want to do, go for it, by all means - but it would be an extremely large project for relatively little gain.

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Pathfinder is 3.5 right? Been so long, actually since I played 3.5 that I'd forgotten the rules, tbh. I've been very much into 5e. Why? BECAUSE it's simpler. Even in computer form where a lot of the work is done for you, I much prefer the 5e rules, even Larian's not as faithful 5e, over the long lists of feats you have to try to remember that your character has every time you act, the complexity of all the spells... Everything.

I remember as a DM trying so hard to manage everything and remember everything for 3.5e and prior. It was a lot harder than 5e. A LOT harder. I remember after gaming sessions feeling like I'd just done homework, especially Math homework.

But most of all, the older systems like 3.5e would take FOREVER to level a character up. SO many options every time, and many players would pour over the skills and feats and such for a long time because they just couldn't figure out which things they should pick. And they'd get frustrated because they'd mess up and pick some feat they thought they could get and they really wanted, but it had some prerequisites they didn't realize existed and they would get mad. There was a lot more versatility, but the price was a lot of players being confused often about selecting special abilities and skills and such. I'd often hear, "I feel like my character sucks now.". You REALLY had to know the game to successfully build your characters. It was not beginner friendly.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Pathfinder is 3.5 right?

Technically, it is its own system developed by Paizo in response to DnD 4th edition limited game system license. But yes, their first edition was heavily based on 3.5 and the by then current open game license. So Niara is not wrong in her statement.

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Originally Posted by Niara
As an aside, I'm curious, to leucrotta - What part of 5e are you under the impression has monsters and PCs not playing by the same rules? They do play by the same rules, they're even built using the same rules and strictures, thee same progression, the same rules governing hit dice and proficiency bonus, etc., their abilities and saves are derived in the same way, their damage is derived in the same way... They absolutely play by the same rules as player characters do.

I am fine with 5th edition myself, but legendary resistances and actions are a pretty large deviation from playing by the same rules, where 3rd edition didn't have anything similar - I think one important point is that in the past there used to be creatures with special abilities, but in 5th edition it's standardized that bosses can do things player characters can't by getting an exception from the action economy.


Different topic, Pathfinder is mechanically very much 3.5, but it has so many custom classes and stuff on top of it that it can feel quite different at times.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Pathfinder is 3.5 right? Been so long, actually since I played 3.5 that I'd forgotten the rules, tbh. I've been very much into 5e. Why? BECAUSE it's simpler. Even in computer form where a lot of the work is done for you, I much prefer the 5e rules, even Larian's not as faithful 5e, over the long lists of feats you have to try to remember that your character has every time you act, the complexity of all the spells... Everything.

I remember as a DM trying so hard to manage everything and remember everything for 3.5e and prior. It was a lot harder than 5e. A LOT harder. I remember after gaming sessions feeling like I'd just done homework, especially Math homework.

But most of all, the older systems like 3.5e would take FOREVER to level a character up. SO many options every time, and many players would pour over the skills and feats and such for a long time because they just couldn't figure out which things they should pick. And they'd get frustrated because they'd mess up and pick some feat they thought they could get and they really wanted, but it had some prerequisites they didn't realize existed and they would get mad. There was a lot more versatility, but the price was a lot of players being confused often about selecting special abilities and skills and such. I'd often hear, "I feel like my character sucks now.". You REALLY had to know the game to successfully build your characters. It was not beginner friendly.

3e and 3.5e were the editions I started out with as a teen, and let me tell you, as someone with dyscalculia, keeping track of all those numbers was a real nightmare. I also feel you on accidentally gimping characters on level up, I remember I used to have entire notebook pages filled with 1-20 level plans for moderately decent builds (aka builds that were actually useful above 10th level), with all the feats I needed to take at what level, just so I could keep track of what I needed to do, because it really wasn't simple.

I tried out Pathfinder a while ago and had pretty much the same issue. I love what Paizo is doing, but I just can't make my brain be better at their game system. The only way I'm going to play those systems again is with a computer handling the nitty gritty for me. I have grown to despise nesting feat trees and hope they never make a comeback in D&D.

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Originally Posted by Piff
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Pathfinder is 3.5 right? Been so long, actually since I played 3.5 that I'd forgotten the rules, tbh. I've been very much into 5e. Why? BECAUSE it's simpler. Even in computer form where a lot of the work is done for you, I much prefer the 5e rules, even Larian's not as faithful 5e, over the long lists of feats you have to try to remember that your character has every time you act, the complexity of all the spells... Everything.

I remember as a DM trying so hard to manage everything and remember everything for 3.5e and prior. It was a lot harder than 5e. A LOT harder. I remember after gaming sessions feeling like I'd just done homework, especially Math homework.

But most of all, the older systems like 3.5e would take FOREVER to level a character up. SO many options every time, and many players would pour over the skills and feats and such for a long time because they just couldn't figure out which things they should pick. And they'd get frustrated because they'd mess up and pick some feat they thought they could get and they really wanted, but it had some prerequisites they didn't realize existed and they would get mad. There was a lot more versatility, but the price was a lot of players being confused often about selecting special abilities and skills and such. I'd often hear, "I feel like my character sucks now.". You REALLY had to know the game to successfully build your characters. It was not beginner friendly.

3e and 3.5e were the editions I started out with as a teen, and let me tell you, as someone with dyscalculia, keeping track of all those numbers was a real nightmare. I also feel you on accidentally gimping characters on level up, I remember I used to have entire notebook pages filled with 1-20 level plans for moderately decent builds (aka builds that were actually useful above 10th level), with all the feats I needed to take at what level, just so I could keep track of what I needed to do, because it really wasn't simple.

I tried out Pathfinder a while ago and had pretty much the same issue. I love what Paizo is doing, but I just can't make my brain be better at their game system. The only way I'm going to play those systems again is with a computer handling the nitty gritty for me. I have grown to despise nesting feat trees and hope they never make a comeback in D&D.

Same.

Wizard's Star Wars had the same issue, and so did Decipher's LOTR. And trying to remember which enemies had which feats, and actually use them appropriately, ugh... I love the feats/special abilities done easy new systems.

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I honestly think the 5th edition is better in just about every damn way to previous editions, and I am certainly not young or inexperienced with rpgs. =)

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Originally Posted by Niara
Might it also interest you to know that 5e is, as the official edition, older and longer running now that 3.0 OR 3.5? It has actually had more time as the official game edition than any other edition, in fact! It's not the 'new hotness' - it's the edition that has had the MOST staying power of ANY D&D edition, at this stage. Yes - it's actually been that long, believe it or not... and unlike 4e, which showed its lack of popularity and was functionally scrapped within two years, this one has drawn people in and retained old players alike, and has shown its longevity.... whether you personally like it or not.

As an aside, I'm curious, to leucrotta - What part of 5e are you under the impression has monsters and PCs not playing by the same rules? They do play by the same rules, they're even built using the same rules and strictures, thee same progression, the same rules governing hit dice and proficiency bonus, etc., their abilities and saves are derived in the same way, their damage is derived in the same way... They absolutely play by the same rules as player characters do.
Marc Abaddon touched on some of my reservations. My reservations towards the edition run deeper than that, but I'm not really interested in discussing that topic in depth to someone who reacts with such hostility at the slightest whiff of criticism towards their edition of choice.

Originally Posted by andreasrylander
I honestly think the 5th edition is better in just about every damn way to previous editions, and I am certainly not young or inexperienced with rpgs. =)
There are some things in my experience it does pretty well, some have been mentioned in this thread already. But I can think of an equal or greater amount of areas where other editions surpass it. 5th edition does not really strike me as striving towards anything particularly simulationist compared to other editions if that makes sense. I also perceive a higher level of granularity in areas like character building that I feel give greater control over mechanically expressing the character you want to play to a finer degree in third edition. There's also the matter of the setting material: while probably controversial, I don't think 5e's iteration of the Realms really holds a candle to 2nd's for example.

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Originally Posted by AusarViled
Originally Posted by Niara
I'm not sure you've got any evidence stock for "as a lot of people dislike 5e" being valid to any appreciable degree. The majority of threads and feedback on this forum over the past year have been in the direction of wanting a more faithful rendition or less of larian's 5e-divergant homebrew.


To be honest, your idea for a project sounds like an ambitious amount of work in order to make the game more flat and boring; good luck with it, but I doubt you'll find traction.

DnD5 seems more popular because it is the one that brought in a lot of newer players from the younger generation, that in itself does not make it better, many youth are just to lazy to work out how the old version works. Some of the best rpgs have always used the 3.0 version because the OGL [open game license] provides so much more to work with then 5.0. Modders could do a lot more with BG3 if they use the 3.0 set up. Yes there is the legal question- is modding a 5.0 edition to be a 3.0 legal? My understanding is that because it is licensed by Larian Games, you would not be able to make the mods paid, otherwise you can mod it?

That is why i am asking here. @Larian are we allowed to mod the game to 3.0? Is it feasible? Since the game is still in early access, this could be useful for modders going forward.... i am myself not a modder, but i plan to learn to make mods. Thanks

The answer should be yes on mods, modding the EA isn't supported by larian but you can, there was a post some where on here about modding EA if that's what you want to do. Legal stuff wise, d&d is owned by Wizards of the Coast and from what I remember stumbling on was a post they did on whats aloud modding wise.

Going to bed, ill see if I can find it later.

https://company.wizards.com/en/legal/fancontentpolicy

https://www.reddit.com/r/BaldursGate3/comments/hmx9hy/a_discussion_on_copyright_and_what_dd_content/

https://dnd.wizards.com/resources/systems-reference-document

Here's some links i did real fast.

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I believe Larian already did a great job at it

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Originally Posted by Leucrotta
Marc Abaddon touched on some of my reservations. My reservations towards the edition run deeper than that, but I'm not really interested in discussing that topic in depth to someone who reacts with such hostility at the slightest whiff of criticism towards their edition of choice.

[...]

There are some things in my experience it does pretty well, some have been mentioned in this thread already. But I can think of an equal or greater amount of areas where other editions surpass it. 5th edition does not really strike me as striving towards anything particularly simulationist compared to other editions if that makes sense. I also perceive a higher level of granularity in areas like character building that I feel give greater control over mechanically expressing the character you want to play to a finer degree in third edition. There's also the matter of the setting material: while probably controversial, I don't think 5e's iteration of the Realms really holds a candle to 2nd's for example.

If I gave the impression of being closed to discussion, I'm sorry for that - not my intention. I'm very much open to these things, and I've changed my position on a number of issues over the years (as anyone genuinely interested in maintaining her position as honest and with as little bias as possible must). 5e is not perfect and it definitely has its flaws and things it struggles with, or things it doesn't handle as well as it could have. I am not a zealot for the edition... I just strongly dislike when people say things about something that aren't true or accurate, as arguments against those things, and I try to be informative where possible.

Enemies are built in the same way as, and use the same rules as, player characters; I wanted to know why you felt they didn't, because if there is something I've overlooked, I'd like to hear about it. I don't view legendary actions and LR as being "monsters having different rules" - those are simply mechanics of the system and traits that some creatures get, and they generally only show up in major encounters as an overarching system for major encounters... I'm not sure if there's ever been an edition of the game where major encounters and boss creatures didn't do things that player characters couldn't, in any game... but was there anything else that I've not thought of?

The discussion between 3.5 and 5e mostly comes down to one of scaffolding versus freedom; 3.5 provides far more wealth of scaffolding to hang things on, and a lot of players find this given granularity appealing. 5e by contrast doesn't say that you can't do all of those things, but it doesn't provide the same degree of scaffolding for them, and instead puts it squarely in the DM's hands, actively encouraging players and dms to reskin and reflavour far more than previous editions. The scaffolding can help you build things, and act as a springboard for creativity to bloom, but it can also hem you in and limit you; this is the difference. Arguably, 5e probably doesn't provide quite *enough* scaffolding, and it could do more... but the amount present in 3.5 far too easily became suffocating and crippling, by contrast.

3.5 suffered from too many rules, and too much nested complexity - it was great for some things, but it created grievous issues in others; skills were too granular for your limited points, nested feat trees were a nightmare, and the capability to create a completely broken, unusable character was incredibly high. 5e is certainly a better all-round system and its longevity and popularity supports his, but it is by no means perfect or without its flaws; where 3.5 had too much complexity and too many rules, to the point of making it unapproachable for new players (a complaint I have indeed heard on more than one occasion), 5e arguably puts too much weight of creativity on the Dm's shoulders, and asks them to adapt the much thinner rule set more flexibly to any situation, without providing quite enough scaffolding to spur the creation of the bizarre and different as easily as it *could*.

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If you look at nexusmods it will give an idea of what mods can currently accomplish. Adding classes, spells, feats, fightingstyles, changing items, crafting etc are already in mods.


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