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Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by GM4Him
At least in WotR, they let me upload my own portraits. That was fun. But Kingmaker... Ugh. That, for me, was the worst part. I can't stand avatars that don't match their portraits.


Uh, you can upload your portrait in Kingmaker as well.

You can? I looked all over, especially after I played Wrath. Huh. Guess I'll look again.

Still. In terms of avatars, you are EXTREMELY limited in Pathfinder. It was so hard to even match my avatars to the portraits I chose.

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I now realize that after all this time, I never really cared much about the character creator in BG3, or in most games for that matter.

Probably because I got spoiled by Dragon’s Dogma years ago. One of the few games that actually let you alter body shape and have it matter in actual gameplay.

Last edited by Saito Hikari; 02/07/22 11:34 AM.
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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by GM4Him
At least for BG3, I have LOTS of choices for how my character looks, and they look pretty dang good.

I do not think I will ever understand or even remotely comprehend how anyone could ever think to praise the BG3 character creator, in any way... I really just do not understand what positive merit anyone is seeing in it.

It's flat, bland, boring, samish, incredibly limited in options and poorly set out to boot. There is virtually no creativity or variation possible, beyond picking sex and voice, you choose all of three thing in order to make your character. I just do not get, at all, what anyone sees ini this absolute flaming pile of garbage of a character creator.

- You chose your sex
- You choose one of two voices, both of which are incredibly similar and bland.
- You choose on of 5-6 heads, four of which are incredibly similar too each other, and again, all with more or less similar features.
- You choose a hair, from the most archaic and user-unfriendly selection method possible; there's about 20, most of which have a very similar 'feel' to them.
- You choose eye and skin colour from fairly limited palettes with no ability to customise at all, beyond the pick boxes they give you.
- If you don't want a tattoo on your face, you skip the next step
- If you don't want ridiculous eye makeup, you skip that too.

-= And that's freaking it =-

This is not a character creator worth being called as such, and the 'show you or character' threads reams and reams of same-face same-character pictures is an excellent visual tool for demonstrating this.

I'm going to go ahead and say it; Solasta's character creator, as limited and restricted as it is, is still a better character creator than BBG3's! It's not as pretty, sure, but in terms of a character creator tool, it's better! Not by much - it's pretty atrocious too, don't get me wrong - but BG3's is worse, especially considering the visual quality that BG3 is trying to portray.

NWN2's character creator was more sophisticated than bg3's character creator, is currently, for crying out loud.

Wow. Never expected such a heated response.

It's no Skyrim character creator. Sure. But I'm comparing it to other games and the visual quality of avatars. I cannot agree with you about Solasta. The models provided in that game give you maybe 8 decent avatars from all races combined including the Half-Orc DLC. So many faces, hairstyles, etc are just cringe or flat ugly.

And even Wrath, though it certainly gives you more avatar choices, isn't exactly what I'd call awesome. Definitely better than Solasta, don't get me wrong, and definitely good in so many ways, but I wouldn't say it's diverse and robust.

Side Note:. I LOVE how Wrath has avatars displaying equipped items, even scrolls and potions and such.

I was also comparing even to Neverwinter Online. Created an elf rogue in Neverwinter Online versus BG3. Same character. Neverwinter's looked cartoony. BG3 looked like a real person.

I don't know. I guess if BG3 doesn't improve their creator at all then I would agree that it sucks. I mean. As is, I think it's a great start, but I guess I shouldn't assume they're going to add more to it. I agree that only 4 voice options - worse voice options than Solasta and Pathfinder by far, mind you - is probably one of the worst aspects. Makeup is also a bit - well, badly done. I will admit that. I hardly ever play around much with the makeup. But I've created a variety of characters that aren't the same, all looking pretty good, I thought, and others have agreed. Compared to models I created on other games - like Neverwinter Online, WAY better.

Diadell the Elf Rogue - Neverwinter Online
[Linked Image from blogger.googleusercontent.com]

Diadell the Elf Rogue - BG3
[Linked Image from blogger.googleusercontent.com]

Would I have liked maybe a better Face? Sure, but the point is she looks much better in BG3.

Last edited by GM4Him; 02/07/22 11:53 AM.
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I hope they dont give any voice lines to tav, so i can use dick tate, rik mayall voice lines pack from sorcerspalace on a crazy char again
https://sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/index_soundsets.php

I may download some of the voice packs fromg bg2 and see if i can make Jon irenicus, in bg3 as a main character

Last edited by Xzoviac; 02/07/22 12:30 PM.
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Originally Posted by Niara
I do not think I will ever understand or even remotely comprehend how anyone could ever think to praise the BG3 character creator, in any way... I really just do not understand what positive merit anyone is seeing in it.

It's flat, bland, boring, samish, incredibly limited in options and poorly set out to boot. There is virtually no creativity or variation possible, beyond picking sex and voice, you choose all of three thing in order to make your character. I just do not get, at all, what anyone sees ini this absolute flaming pile of garbage of a character creator.

The physical appearance of my character does not matter very much, but I agree that BG3 does not provide enjoyable character customization. The best parts of character creation are alignment, background, quest, identity, etc., which are what matter in D&D and are really the point of the game. The character's appearance should be consistent with those, and allow you to be unique. Larian wants to force you to play their characters, and invests huge development time into their drama, but leaves little fun for real fans who want to be someone else. So, in a way, the barebones appearance options match the shallowness and irrelevance of custom characters in this game.

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I think I'm going to reinstall and do a new playthrough, I'm curious to see what Patch 7 was about, I haven't played since it came out. I'd like to see just how different patch 8 is in comparison.

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Originally Posted by Xzoviac
I hope they dont give any voice lines to tav, so i can use dick tate, rik mayall voice lines pack from sorcerspalace on a crazy char again
https://sorcerers.net/Games/BG2/index_soundsets.php

I may download some of the voice packs fromg bg2 and see if i can make Jon irenicus, in bg3 as a main character

oh god, why am i on stadia... Can't wait to get my new pc that can run bg3 in 10 years and try that stuff.

I'd much rather have irenicus return than simpleton minsc honestly. What actually happened to irenicus according to cannon ? Any chance why might meet again ? Now that'd be a companion to go the extra length for. Together with Viconia off course, fuck jaheira

Last edited by SerraSerra; 02/07/22 08:10 PM.
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Originally Posted by machinus
Originally Posted by Niara
I do not think I will ever understand or even remotely comprehend how anyone could ever think to praise the BG3 character creator, in any way... I really just do not understand what positive merit anyone is seeing in it.

It's flat, bland, boring, samish, incredibly limited in options and poorly set out to boot. There is virtually no creativity or variation possible, beyond picking sex and voice, you choose all of three thing in order to make your character. I just do not get, at all, what anyone sees ini this absolute flaming pile of garbage of a character creator.

The physical appearance of my character does not matter very much, but I agree that BG3 does not provide enjoyable character customization. The best parts of character creation are alignment, background, quest, identity, etc., which are what matter in D&D and are really the point of the game. The character's appearance should be consistent with those, and allow you to be unique. Larian wants to force you to play their characters, and invests huge development time into their drama, but leaves little fun for real fans who want to be someone else. So, in a way, the barebones appearance options match the shallowness and irrelevance of custom characters in this game.

+1

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Ok. My hopes for character creation improving have just gone down considerably. DOS 2 custom characters are... Ok... But they're not very diverse in body size, face choices, etc. Hmmm. I was under the assumption that because it's EA we'd get a LOT more choices later especially since we're going to get Half-Orc and such. Bigger body types, etc. Much needed. Now I'm concerned. I will say, at least Solasta and Pathfinder provide larger and smaller body types.

Another interesting thing about character creation... How come elves in DOS 2 look more like elves than BG3 elves? I mean, I will say, I was stunned to see that they looked more elvish because so many have pointed out that elves in BG3 are like humans with pointy ears. I thought that was odd.

Last edited by GM4Him; 02/07/22 08:25 PM.
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In fact, there will most likely be one additional body type that is already used by more than one npc so most likely it will be shared with a custom character.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ok. My hopes for character creation improving have just gone down considerably. DOS 2 custom characters are... Ok... But they're not very diverse in body size, face choices, etc. Hmmm. I was under the assumption that because it's EA we'd get a LOT more choices later especially since we're going to get Half-Orc and such. Bigger body types, etc. Much needed. Now I'm concerned. I will say, at least Solasta and Pathfinder provide larger and smaller body types.

Another interesting thing about character creation... How come elves in DOS 2 look more like elves than BG3 elves? I mean, I will say, I was stunned to see that they looked more elvish because so many have pointed out that elves in BG3 are like humans with pointy ears. I thought that was odd.

Yeah, that's a huge problem in DOS2. IMO, custom characters are not viable in the personality or narrative department in DOS2. You almost HAVE to play an origin character, unless you really really want to play a custom character. There's no upside to playing custom character outside of it being a custom character.

The elf thing is weird. Larian knows what elves look like, but they are choosing humans with elf ears for BG3, even after the arguments over what elves look like on this forum, the fact that they made elves more like elves in previous games, and the fact that they are making a sequel to BG2, whose depiction of elves visually is more in line with DOS2 than with BG3 at this point.


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Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ok. My hopes for character creation improving have just gone down considerably. DOS 2 custom characters are... Ok... But they're not very diverse in body size, face choices, etc. Hmmm. I was under the assumption that because it's EA we'd get a LOT more choices later especially since we're going to get Half-Orc and such. Bigger body types, etc. Much needed. Now I'm concerned. I will say, at least Solasta and Pathfinder provide larger and smaller body types.

Another interesting thing about character creation... How come elves in DOS 2 look more like elves than BG3 elves? I mean, I will say, I was stunned to see that they looked more elvish because so many have pointed out that elves in BG3 are like humans with pointy ears. I thought that was odd.

One of the most obvious problems with the trend towards photorealism in games over the last 10-15 years is that it has come about through the use of cinematic techniques, rather than algorithmic techniques.

So, for example, artist animation has been replaced by motion capture, and character models now often use facial scans. Both of these lead to higher visual quality, but at the expense of flexibility and choice, as these techniques are labour and time intensive, meaning they are expensive.

If I remember correctly ( and I probably don't, as I am getting old ) Swen said before EA they were using about 20(?) face scans of interesting(!) people, but that they intended to do more before release. He also said that the face scans were processed to produce many more variations ( I think it was over 100 heads claimed ). I don't know quite what Larian consider to be "processing", but to me, the processing does not seem to make enough difference to be worth bothering with, since many of the heads are clearly just minor variations of each other.

As a side note, one of the male heads is suspiciously like Swen, so I wouldn't be surprised if all the face scans are Larian staff members smile This is also, of course, why all BG3 races look like modified humans, because they literally are. Even worse is having just 4 voices for all races, none of which are particularly inspiring. I can cope with a poorly customizable character model, but I find it less easy ignore a voicing that doesn't "work" for me, which is the main reason I prefer a silent protagonist.

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Originally Posted by Niara
This is not a character creator worth being called as such, and the 'show you or character' threads reams and reams of same-face same-character pictures is an excellent visual tool for demonstrating this.

Half of the BG3 reddit at this point is "Look at my hot new Tav" threads. And they basically all look the same.

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Originally Posted by etonbears
Originally Posted by GM4Him
Ok. My hopes for character creation improving have just gone down considerably. DOS 2 custom characters are... Ok... But they're not very diverse in body size, face choices, etc. Hmmm. I was under the assumption that because it's EA we'd get a LOT more choices later especially since we're going to get Half-Orc and such. Bigger body types, etc. Much needed. Now I'm concerned. I will say, at least Solasta and Pathfinder provide larger and smaller body types.

Another interesting thing about character creation... How come elves in DOS 2 look more like elves than BG3 elves? I mean, I will say, I was stunned to see that they looked more elvish because so many have pointed out that elves in BG3 are like humans with pointy ears. I thought that was odd.

One of the most obvious problems with the trend towards photorealism in games over the last 10-15 years is that it has come about through the use of cinematic techniques, rather than algorithmic techniques.

So, for example, artist animation has been replaced by motion capture, and character models now often use facial scans. Both of these lead to higher visual quality, but at the expense of flexibility and choice, as these techniques are labour and time intensive, meaning they are expensive.

If I remember correctly ( and I probably don't, as I am getting old ) Swen said before EA they were using about 20(?) face scans of interesting(!) people, but that they intended to do more before release. He also said that the face scans were processed to produce many more variations ( I think it was over 100 heads claimed ). I don't know quite what Larian consider to be "processing", but to me, the processing does not seem to make enough difference to be worth bothering with, since many of the heads are clearly just minor variations of each other.

As a side note, one of the male heads is suspiciously like Swen, so I wouldn't be surprised if all the face scans are Larian staff members smile This is also, of course, why all BG3 races look like modified humans, because they literally are. Even worse is having just 4 voices for all races, none of which are particularly inspiring. I can cope with a poorly customizable character model, but I find it less easy ignore a voicing that doesn't "work" for me, which is the main reason I prefer a silent protagonist.

This is what I thought might be the reason initially....but with the Dwarven, Gnomish, and in particular the Gith faces, Larians seems certainly able and willing to tweak the face scans to get them 'right'. So the usage of face scans seemingly unaltered (save for the ears) to use for elves is a bit of a mystery. My only speculation I have for them is that they don't think people would be as receptive to 'alien' looking elves and so decided to go with more conventionally-attractive looking head models.

As for the larger discussion on how good Larian's character creation is....I think It's *OK*. Elves get screwed again with hair options since almost all of them clip with their ears, 2 voices of each type is really unfortunate, and I hope it's not because they are planning to make 'Tav' voiced. Piercings should be available to everyone instead of limited to a specific subclass, etc.

I think it seems underwhelming because of the focus on cinematic up close shots and animated cutscenes etc. The limitations in character creation there make what would otherwise be pretty good look....not so pretty good.

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I love how the elves look in BG3! celebrate

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I was just comparing with other D&D video games. And I'm sorry, it's WAY better than pixel box NWN. It's better than NWN 2, though NWN 2 was great for it's time. My PCs look 100 times better than Solasta. The only game that I feel rivals and maybe beats BG3 is Pathfinder.

And I'm talking avatars, not portraits. Sure. In many games, you can pick artistic portraits that look REALLY good. In this way, NWN is way better. But you can't tell me the avatars are better. I'm sorry, but it's like Final Fantasy 7 versus Final Fantasy 7 Remake when it comes to avatars.

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And, just curious... How is this much different from BG3 elves - humans with pointy ears?

And this is the portrait I chose for Diadell for NWN. Her boxy avatar is atrocious.

[Linked Image from blogger.googleusercontent.com]

For the record, though, this portrait really is closest to my original concept of her.

Last edited by GM4Him; 03/07/22 01:12 PM.
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Originally Posted by OcO
Originally Posted by Niara
This is not a character creator worth being called as such, and the 'show you or character' threads reams and reams of same-face same-character pictures is an excellent visual tool for demonstrating this.

Half of the BG3 reddit at this point is "Look at my hot new Tav" threads. And they basically all look the same.

that's what kills me, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How do people think all of these characters are unique? they're all the same face with VERY minor mutations with different hair styles/color.

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Originally Posted by Niara
This is not a character creator worth being called as such, and the 'show you or character' threads reams and reams of same-face same-character pictures is an excellent visual tool for demonstrating this.

Originally Posted by OcO
Half of the BG3 reddit at this point is "Look at my hot new Tav" threads. And they basically all look the same.

Originally Posted by Boblawblah
that's what kills me, I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. How do people think all of these characters are unique? they're all the same face with VERY minor mutations with different hair styles/color.

Ok, so it wasn't just me. I thought it was something weird to witness, but no one ever said a thing about it.

For what little it matters I don't find the character creator in this game egregiously bad as Niara seems to think it is. It's just... basic, without much to offer in terms of variety and appealing options (but this is more a matter of personal taste, I guess).

Nothing that they couldn't improve just adding "more of everything" for the record.

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The CC isn't bad per se, it just lack options. It is incredible limited.
As someone, who likes to show her characters: I only do it nowadays, when using face and hairmods, because otherwise, what is the point in showing the same few faces again.


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