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Originally Posted by 1varangian
What I'd like to know is if they're going to restrict Domains by Deity. Or will I get to play with Clerics of Shar who chose the Light Domain because of cool powers in multiplayer? Feels like a huge flavor fail if you can choose wrong or even opposing domains.

And why are they being so stingy adding more Domains for EA? War especially is such a staple and it's annoying not being able to play a Battle Cleric with Martial Weapons and Heavy Armor almost two years after release.

Yeah, I hope they really restrict domain choices by deities.

I understand the desire for a player's freedom of choice, but sometimes freedom of choice needs to be restricted to preserve the integrity of the setting. Helm, Tyr and Torm, for example, would never grant their followers "Trickery" domain powers since they are completely opposed to them.
The way it currently is undermines the integrity of the setting which is never a good thing.

I also second the wish for the ability of every character to choose a patron deity (or none/agnostic for non-clerics). Being able to do so would add a bit of depth to our custom characters.

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I do hope for more gods but dont know if they (Larian) comfirmed anywhere that more were coming?

I sure as hell hope so though because the PHB has alot of cleric domains that werent added yet frown and clerics differ alot from person to person. Choice of god is just 1 of those choices. But considering in the EA we already had special dialogue for people of a certain god I have some hope they give each cleric (and their god) the same love smile

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Originally Posted by Kendaric
Originally Posted by 1varangian
What I'd like to know is if they're going to restrict Domains by Deity. Or will I get to play with Clerics of Shar who chose the Light Domain because of cool powers in multiplayer? Feels like a huge flavor fail if you can choose wrong or even opposing domains.

And why are they being so stingy adding more Domains for EA? War especially is such a staple and it's annoying not being able to play a Battle Cleric with Martial Weapons and Heavy Armor almost two years after release.

Yeah, I hope they really restrict domain choices by deities.

I understand the desire for a player's freedom of choice, but sometimes freedom of choice needs to be restricted to preserve the integrity of the setting. Helm, Tyr and Torm, for example, would never grant their followers "Trickery" domain powers since they are completely opposed to them.
The way it currently is undermines the integrity of the setting which is never a good thing.

I also second the wish for the ability of every character to choose a patron deity (or none/agnostic for non-clerics). Being able to do so would add a bit of depth to our custom characters.
And the freedom of choice is already there in full effect. The freedom to choose your Deity. Also to give players the exact domain they want, if it's a "powers first" kind of situation. No one really needs the freedom to rewrite Forgotten Realms lore.

It would be cool though if there were enough domains so all deities would have at least two to choose from.

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In my opinion, the existing list of deities is already quite complete and does not need to be changed.
After all, it's better to have a small list of gods whose choices really affect the game than a huge list with no distinction.
However, I wouldn't mind playing as a cleric of Cyric or Eldath.
Originally Posted by 1varangian
It would be cool though if there were enough domains so all deities would have at least two to choose from.
Unfortunately, this is unlikely to happen.
Even after so many rulebooks, many deities (like Talos and Tempus) only received one domain, and this is unlikely to change.
In general, speaking about deities and domains, we can refer to the first edition of the Pathfinder.
The first edition gave a lot of archetypes, one of which was the separatist. "A radical cleric, unsatisfied with the orthodoxy of her deity’s teachings, forges her own path of defiant divine expression". This archetype allowed the cleric to choose a second domain not from the deity's domain list. By the way, this second domain cannot be an alignment domain that doesn’t match the cleric’s of they deity’s alignment.
Probably something like this can be implemented in the game. Like, cleric of Bane/Bhaal with a trickery domain, cleric of Tempus with a tempest domain, etc.

Last edited by BuckettMonkey; 18/07/22 10:07 PM.

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Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
After all, it's better to have a small list of gods whose choices really affect the game than a huge list with no distinction.
Better for you, perhaps, but not for me. If none of the deities on that short list are deities I will choose for my PC, then it matters not one bit for me how deep those deity choices go in the game.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
After all, it's better to have a small list of gods whose choices really affect the game than a huge list with no distinction.
Better for you, perhaps, but not for me. If none of the deities on that short list are deities I will choose for my PC, then it matters not one bit for me how deep those deity choices go in the game.
And what specific deity would you like to see in the game?


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I want a Cleric that has no powers that worships AO... Oh wait that's just a fighter smile Unless there is something new in 5E.?.

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Originally Posted by avahZ Darkwood
I want a Cleric that has no powers that worships AO... Oh wait that's just a fighter smile Unless there is something new in 5E.?.
Cleics are by definition powered by their gods.

You could be a paladin or religious fighter.

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Originally Posted by avahZ Darkwood
I want a Cleric that has no powers that worships AO... Oh wait that's just a fighter smile Unless there is something new in 5E.?.
Mortals wouldnt know about Ao. We as players know about him but unless a god specificly mentions him a mortal wont even know who he is. He also doesent need worshippers given his job.

I also think I read somewhere that he detests it when someone does somehow worship him. But cant recall where I read that so take it with a pinch of salt.

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Originally Posted by Demoulius
Originally Posted by avahZ Darkwood
I want a Cleric that has no powers that worships AO... Oh wait that's just a fighter smile Unless there is something new in 5E.?.
Mortals wouldnt know about Ao. We as players know about him but unless a god specificly mentions him a mortal wont even know who he is. He also doesent need worshippers given his job.

I also think I read somewhere that he detests it when someone does somehow worship him. But cant recall where I read that so take it with a pinch of salt.

Not quite, there is an AO cult, the age of troubles brought his knowledge to Abier-Toril. Once again, unless it was changed in 4 or 5e. I am an ol dog from pre 3.5e.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ao

Last edited by avahZ Darkwood; 18/07/22 11:20 PM.
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My brother’s favorite “god” is Atrophus. He would be giddy as a school girl if this one was apart of BG3.

https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Atropus

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While we don't (necessarily) need every deity, at least the major ones should be present which is currently not the case and it should be remedied prior to release.
Of course they could always be modded in, but they'd have no impact on dialogue choices, etc.

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Originally Posted by N7Greenfire
Originally Posted by avahZ Darkwood
I want a Cleric that has no powers that worships AO... Oh wait that's just a fighter smile Unless there is something new in 5E.?.
Cleics are by definition powered by their gods.

You could be a paladin or religious fighter.

Well, there are some examples. As computer game player (not PnP) I know Fall from Grace (PST) and Zajive (NWN2) as clerics without god. Ember from WotR is a witch, but she is quite similar.
But those are all very special cases. Usually all clerics and paladins need a god for their powers.

I think a valor bard could be the best option to play a cleric without a god.
You walk around in medium armor, shield and martial weapons and you select only spells that are also on the cleric list.
Maybe you role play that your bard actually believes (s)he is a cleric.

Anyway, it would be very nice to have more gods and domains.
The PhB has a list of both, at least this we should get.


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I think it depends on what domain of Cleric you wanted to play as to what would be a good substitute.

Land Druid can stand in well for both heal focused domains, and spell-nova domains like tempest, because the Druid spell list is nice and diverse, especially with the extra spells from land. They also get medium armour and shields, but have material restrictions, which is less of an issue in tabletop but is probably going to cause problems in BG3, unless Larian has put in non-metal magical shields and non-metal armours (like chitin breastplate or half-plate).

Valour Bard would work well as a sub for a more martial Cleric, and while you could turn lore bard into a trickery domain sub, I personally think glamour might work better, but not only is that not a PHB subclass, it also doesn't get medium armour or shields.

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Originally Posted by Madscientist
Well, there are some examples. As computer game player (not PnP) I know Fall from Grace (PST) and Zajive (NWN2) as clerics without god.
In the third edition, there was an ur-priest prestige class that had the ability to steal spells from deities. Though in actuality, ur-priests unknowingly received their spells from deities. Evil deities, usually. Evil deities who used the ur-priests as their pawns.
Originally Posted by Madscientist
Ember from WotR is a witch, but she is quite similar.
In general, witches are more of an analogue of warlocks in Pathfinder. Well, you know, patrons, hexes, dark powers and all that stuff.
Originally Posted by Madscientist
Usually all clerics and paladins need a god for their powers.
Not really.
Clerics who worship Archdevils and Demon Lords also gain cleric powers.
Moreover, in the current edition, clerics can derive their powers from Pantheon, Philosophy, or Force worship.
From Xanathar's Guide to Everything

The typical cleric is an ordained servant of a particular god and chooses a Divine Domain associated with that deity. The cleric's magic flows from the god or the god's sacred realm, and often the cleric bears a holy symbol that represents that divinity. Some clerics, especially in a world like Eberron, serve a whole pantheon, rather than a single deity. In certain campaigns, a cleric might instead serve a cosmic force, such as life or death, or a philosophy or concept, such as love, peace, or one of the nine alignments. Chapter 1 of the Dungeon Master's Guide explores options like these, in the section "Gods of Your World." Talk with your DM about the divine options available in your campaign, whether they're gods, pantheons, philosophies, or cosmic forces. Whatever being or thing your cleric ends up serving, choose a Divine Domain that is appropriate for it, and if it doesn't have a holy symbol, work with your DM to design one. The cleric's class features often refer to your deity. If you are devoted to a pantheon, cosmic force, or philosophy, your cleric features still work for you as written. Think of the references to a god as references to the divine thing you serve that gives you your magic.


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A cleric of Atropos, would be from what I am understanding of 5E, would be more like a warlock or cleric with a death or necromatic domain. He is more like AO, he doesn’t need worship. He however can use mortal as “heralds” -think silver surfer-. He is the Unicron of this universe.

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My first idea is that if you get power from a deity (officially confirmed by Ao) you are a cleric (or paladin if you are more on the warrior side).
If you get powers from another powerful being you are a warlock.

Now its more like:
Characters can get magic powers from powerful beings or other forces.
The rest is just game mechanics.
How you get power from that entity and what relationship you have with it is up to your own imagination.

Right now I have problems to understand the difference between a cleric of a demon lord and a fiend warlock.


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Originally Posted by Madscientist
Right now I have problems to understand the difference between a cleric of a demon lord and a fiend warlock.
In general, everything is quite simple.
A cleric derives his power from the worship of a deity/demigod/archfiend/etc, while a warlock's power is based on a pact.
In other words, warlocks can be more free thanks to the pact.


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Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by BuckettMonkey
After all, it's better to have a small list of gods whose choices really affect the game than a huge list with no distinction.
Better for you, perhaps, but not for me. If none of the deities on that short list are deities I will choose for my PC, then it matters not one bit for me how deep those deity choices go in the game.
And what specific deity would you like to see in the game?
Lathander.

As others have said, they should have at least all the major deities in the game, and Lathander definitely qualifies, especially in a game featuring Shar so very centrally.

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Originally Posted by kanisatha
As others have said, they should have at least all the major deities in the game
Fair enough.
So, what deities should they add?
Cyric, Chauntea, Sune, Gruumsh and Silvanus?
Originally Posted by kanisatha
Lathander definitely qualifies, especially in a game featuring Shar so very centrally.
Well, Lathander was one of the three deities available to the cleric in the original series. And he also returned after the fourth edition retcons. If Larian had not included him in the list of deities, I would have been surprised.


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