Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General The warlock kinda sucks

I want to like the warlock. I like the concept of the class. I can think of characters I'd like to play.

But the class itself kinda sucks, doesn't it? Compare it to the sorcerer. Compare it to anything, really.

I imagine someone will come in saying that the warlocks spell slots refresh on a short rest, and I guess that's okay, but still. It's only two spell slots, one of which is almost always eaten up by the necessity of hex. Leaving one spell--per however many combats--for variety.

Trying to do the devil's sight and darkness angle isn't great, in my opinion. For one, it leaves out the other characters, and for two, it feels slightly bugged. As in, enemies can still shoot into the darkness or they just stand around and do nothing if you're hiding in the darkness.

I don't know. I just feel like the class kinda sucks right now. Making a pact is supposed to make a character powerful, not subpar.

I only use hex on big hp stuff, warlocks cantrip is just insane compared, and if u use it 2 push people off ledges you can 1 hit kill loads of stuff

It is because of 2 per day short rest restriction - once they rework rest system(hopefully), it will become more balanced. + i think we miss out the strongest warlock sub class - hexblade

I'm not aware of any claim that they intend to rework the rest system, frankly.

But back to the topic...
I don't think the class is particularly ineffective (Eldrich Blast is probably as powerful as a cantrip can ever hope to be and some occasional extra utility in the form of extra spells can help, not to mention that as a charisma-based class the warlock is implicitly a good fit as the "face" of the party.
I do concede that it may not be a particularly interesting or fun class to use, on the other hand. But then again, not many are at level 4.

I don't think it's the rest system. I think it's the limit of two spell slots... which lasts for something like ten levels?

Yeah, I'd like to see something like the hexblade.

As for repelling blast, I just don't think it's great enough to make the warlock comparable to the other classes.

The face of the party: that's why I used the sorcerer as a comparison.

The strength of the cantrip: a d10? Then you can elect to use an invocation slot to add in your attribute bonus. Now it's up to the power level of a heavy crossbow. Great, I guess. Shrug.

Extra utility: if you wait a few combats between short rests then you have one spell.

My opinion: this class could use a lot of homebrew love to bring it up to par with the other classes.

Everyone sucks compared to the Sorcerer right now, but that's because they're flat-out broken with how Larian implemented them (and surfaces).

Warlock's primary thing mechanically is supposed to be reliability between rests. They can keep going all day long. But since there's no reason to not take a full rest after every combat, they are easily overshadowed by other classes that don't need to conserve their powerful resources. The knockback option on EB is very fun with the map design, but also can bite you in the butt when it loses you loot, punishing Warlocks for using their coolest power. I agree with the others I think we'd need to see a big re-work to resting/resource-management to make them fully stand out, even if Larian fixes all the problems with Sorcerers.

Edit: re:homebrew. I think the problem is too much Larian homebrew throwing things out of whack. Adding more bandages onto the system will just cause further problems elsewhere.

1.) Hex is fine, but it's so limiting. It doesn't really scale with slot level too, so you're kind of wasting the point of warlock slots. Sure, you get more Eldritch Blasts at 5th and 11th level, and sure the duration of a 3rd-level Hex increases to the ~entire day. However, the opportunity cost of being unable to cast another concentration spell is super high, and honestly you'll probably lose concentration in 2 fights or less so it likely won't actually last the whole day. IMO, hex is a bit of a trap.
-- I suppose Hex is more powerful at low levels in BG3 because even at level 1 it lasts until you next long rest..? But on the other hand, you can only short rest twice so that benefit is offset.

2.) Repelling Blast would be AMAZING for Warlocks with BG3's verticality-focused maps...if everyone didn't get Shove as a BA. Since they do, it's redundant.

3.) Warlocks and Sorcerers are much more powerful than they should be due to unlimited spell scrolls, on-the-fly spell preparing, and Quicken.

4.) Short rest caster vs long-rest-encouraged BG3 blahblahblah you all know this point by now

5.) The currently implemented Warlock subclasses make it even more limiting.

But yes, even if all those things are fixed, I agree that the Warlock is kind of boring (and sucky) - one or two spells per combat then it's just EB away. Basically becomes a ranged Fighter at that point who can only use the Shoving Battlemaster Maneuver.

Indeed.

For starters it would be enough if they implemented Pact of Tome, then we could use more offensive cantrips for a bit more spell variety.

You shouldn't really treat Warlocks as dedicated full spellcasters like Wizards, Sorcerers, and Clerics. They're much closer to martials in terms of playstyle. Think of them as magical archers who can occasionally cast spells.

Your underselling eldritch blast a bit. It's worth mentioning that eldritch blast scales with character level to give you 4 attacks at lvl 17 (the same amount as 20th level fighter) which makes it far superior to every other cantrip when used with agonizing blast (4d10 + 20 vs 4d10 from firebolt). For 2 levels in warlock you essentially get a heavy crossbow that deals force damage, is treated as magical, ignores the loading property, and functions as well as if it was wielded by a 20th level fighter. Then you have other invocations such as repelling blast, eldritch spear, and grasp of hadar which make it an extremely versatile tool.

For comparison's sake, even paladins can't do as much single target damage as a warlock can without resources. They cap out at 2 attacks and get a feature to give an extra d8 to all their attacks for 4d8 + 10 (or 4d8 + 16 with a +3 longsword).

Maybe it gets better as it levels. I only have four levels to judge it on right now.

Now that you mention the plus three sword, it makes me wonder how the "to hit" bonus compares. Does the EB get a bonus to hit to offset not having a magical weapon bonus?

There is a thread(this one https://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=817694#Post817694) about reworking rest system with keeping camp supplies(basically remove 2 per day restriction and make SR cost camp supplies as well as make LR more expensive overall to differentiate SR and LR more).

Larian asked our feedback on camp supplies system, so I hope they are watching and maybe do something like that

One of the main things that they are not implementing well for the Warlock for the special pact abilities. That's where the real power of the Warlock lies.

Pact to the Blade, for instance. Wyll should BE a Pact of the Blade warlock by default because he wields a rapier. Larian stripped the value of that pact by making him a warlock who is proficient with that weapon but not part of that pact. Regardless, there are special abilities like the one that allows someone with this pact to get an extra attack just like a fighter would once they reach level 5, I believe.

I'll stop there. I could go on about all the special abilities for each pact, I would take all day. My daughter plays a warlock currently at level 6, and she is pretty tough.

This will be implemented sooner or later anyway - because it is phb content. While rest system is controvetsial because Larian invented it themselves

Yeah, we have long threads where we argued to the point of exhaustion a lot of popular topics. Larian never really publicly acknowledged (let alone addressed) most of them.

I’m not exactly optimistic about it. And for all we know Larian ALREADY revamped the rest system when they introduced the current one few patches into EA. I’m not aware of any ulterior attempt to change it.

Warlocks can get a Rod of the Pactkeeper which gives a +1/+2/+3 bonus to their warlock spell attack rolls as well as the same bonus to their save DCs. No bonus to damage rolls though. If they take a 1 level dip in cleric or paladin, they can also get the Amulet of the Devout which has a similar effect although I think it applies to all spells the PC can cast rather than just cleric or paladin spells.IIRC they can also stack for a +6 since they're two different items and so are techincally two different bonuses. There's also the staff of power which grants a +2 to spell attack rolls that also stacks.

I’m always shocked to see these kinds of threads. Wyll is great! It’s no use looking at the pieces individually, he needs to be evaluated in the aggregate.

First, no one’s mentioned the imp yet, and that’s a crime. It’s an invisible flier that attacks for 1d4+1d6 poison. It’s also resistant to a bunch of damage types, making it surprisingly tanky. (I can’t find the exact stats, but they’re pretty good). The invisibilty means that the tough, angry thing appears at the best possible place as soon as your PC’s first turn; the flying means it will always be in the best possible place throughout combat. Final perk: Hexing the imp lets Wyll store a spell slot before SR.

Second, Hex ain’t getting the love it deserves either. It’s not just a combo with Blast, it’s fearsome with Scorching Ray. With high ground and Bless, you’re looking at the very real possibility of 9d6 damage. No need to worry about concentration when anything you target turns to ashes. And it just costs a bonus action!

Third, Blast may seem underwhelming, but when other casters are out of spell slots, their options aren’t better. Besides, along with Hex and the imp, Wyll has a base damage output of 1d4+2d6+1d10+cha. This assumes taking the Agonizing Blast invocation, which is a must have in my book.

Last, Wyll can cast neat spells. He’s not the only one, but I like having as many PCs as possible have access to Misty Step. Darkness may be bugged, I haven’t tried it. (I cast Fog once and I was so confused that I gave up on cloud effects).

Wyll’s a package, with high damage floor and ceiling throughout the day. (The OP clearly stated it didn’t matter to him, but I like to stretch in game days so replenishing spell slots with SR is relevant to me.) And I didn’t even mention Repelling Blast. Shove may be a bonus action, but it doesn’t have a range of 60 feet. I stopped taking that invocation because it straight up makes the game too easy.

The only type of warlock I find interesting is the one with the Genie pact.

Just me and my bottle of djinn, that's all I need.

On the topic of Wyll, doesn't he also have an extra proficiency that his build typically isn't supposed to have? I *believe* it's weapons proficiency in rapiers but I'm only like 80% certain.

Its true that Warlock have some problems ...
I would also like to add no class bonus from GOO Warlock on level 1 ...
And the fact that Agonizing Blast is effectively loosing his Charisma bonus against enemies (mostly walls so far) who have lesser Toughness. Bcs it is made as two separate damages, instead of alterning damage calculation and incerase it.

Feel free to corect me ... but when you shove, your enemy can make saving throw ... while with Repelling Blast its 100% (presuming you hit ofc).
It still seems quite fine to me. O_o