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#819347 09/07/22 01:45 AM
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It feels like for every one thing you improved you f*cked up 3 other things in their place.


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A bit vague.

Not even saying you’re wrong, since I simply can’t bring myself to play, but some example or detail would help you make your case.

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Not sure I get what you are saying. All the new intended non bug changes I've encounter has been overwhelmingly positive, so what of the new changes do you feel is worse than the version of it we had in patch 7?

If you are upset about changes comes with bugs especially in an Early Access game, I feel sorry for you. That would be like winning the lottery and being upset you get paid on the 10th instead of the 9th.

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Patch days are allways messy ...
It takes time to catch all major bugs. smile


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Some of the bugs iv encountered, Having a lot more trouble with battle camera, zooming in to my feet or just wandering off
some dice rolls dont show the right roll now, rolled a 9 on something total, which was a 10 to pass and I still passed, (cant remember which roll sorry)
Snake still killing the little girl if its dead
Waukeens rest "trapped man" room still explodes, if you jump in to the room with out destroying the doors.

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People find bugs and errors in an early acces title.

Im shocked. SHOCKED! Well not that shocked...

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I crash when my first long rest finishes. Tried it twice now., twice the same :-(
I also noticed more strange things with the graphics. For instance when La'zel talks about "US" being useful on the Nautiloid, you see the floor, but Us is missing and my player's feet hovering above the ground.
When I first go to camp, there is an image of the characters in resting position, then it switches to my PC walking into the camp spot.
And right before the game crashes, I see my characters back in the spot where they were before the rest, but in sleeping positions.

There were some more oddities like this I can't remember.

But the long-rest crash is serious of course. This halts the game quite early;

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Watching Wolfheart playing the heck out of the game...yea. He's a die hard fan but TONS of frustration still in combat. Bugs everywhere (understandable but still...). That new swarm mechanic not working for so many battles. Cinematics still look janky even after 2 years of EA. Bard was fun the first hour, now its annoying to watch (my opinion) lol.

Best part he keeps mentioning is the improved UI. Except for the shit map. And that toilet chain struggle is real (hes not mentioning it but its obvious when watching him play...).
He loves the new lighting (?I feel its a downgrade...?) and especially the sound effects/music which is an amazing improvement, agreed!

Last edited by mr_planescapist; 09/07/22 11:39 PM.
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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Best part he keeps mentioning is the improved UI. Except for the shit map. And that toilet chain struggle is real (hes not mentioning it but its obvious when watching him play...)

He's mentioned it in a previous stream a long while ago, but I'd get a few more gray hairs of the time I'd spend trying to find it.

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The chain system is truly the most awful and frustrating way to select/move characters i’ve ever seen in 25 years of being a gamer. That’s saying a lot.

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I've been using some mods and can't remember, without mods, can you simply press "g" to unchain everyone and press "g" again to regroup?

Last edited by Boblawblah; 09/07/22 11:57 PM.
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they should consider using the bg1 and bg2 system to select characters, maybe they should use the previous games as inspiration for bg3, instead of using DOS

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Originally Posted by Xzoviac
they should consider using the bg1 and bg2 system to select characters, maybe they should use the previous games as inspiration for bg3, instead of using DOS

we're long past that point i think, the toilet chains are here to stay, it's just a matter of how many QOL features we can get to make them not as bad.

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I like the chain system.


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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
I like the chain system.

I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I do have to laugh at "use the old BG system" thing, because all that really changes is where we click and drag. If you wanted to move characters individually, you still had to issue a group wide hold command to do it, which is essentially unchaining them...

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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
I like the chain system.
That's cool.
It doesn't make it good at what it needs to do, though.

Originally Posted by robertthebard
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I do have to laugh at "use the old BG system" thing, because all that really changes is where we click and drag. If you wanted to move characters individually, you still had to issue a group wide hold command to do it, which is essentially unchaining them...

Wel, you are wrong.
The difference is that with a traditional "click and drag selection"/lazo select/"shift clit on portrait" system you'd be able at any given time to SPLIT your party in subgroups (i.e. "these two go here, these three there, and the sixth on this spot") with few seconds of quick gestures and without having to fight the interface for a couple of minutes. And with the ability to PINPOINT the exact location of each character moved, rather than praying that characters may stick reasonably close to where you want them.

Also, these old systems allowed to give the party (or THE PORTION SELECTED of the party) group commands about generic orders without relying on a questionable "I can control just this unit and I can only hope the other will imitate it with a good approximation".

The SUBSTANTIAL difference in practical terms is there. Some of you seem to just lack enough familiarity with the genre to spot it, somehow?


P.S. And I'll invite you to take note about the fact that the example I described is about managing a larger party, too (six characters) despise STILL being more efficient and quick to use than what we have now.
Imagine what a hideous mess it would be to control six characters with Larian's signature chain system.

No wonder they are terrified at the idea of giving players an options for larger parties, despise being so broadly requested: that would basically force them to come up with a control scheme that doesn't make the average player wish to beat up a Belgian kid in retaliation.

Last edited by Tuco; 10/07/22 01:12 AM.
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I've said this before, but I would love to see someone send their party to four different corners of a town (or even just a small area in preparation for a fight), and then get them back together in the chain system vs the old school (which is how some people say "essentially unchaining them") crpg system. As Tuco said, if you can't see the differences, maybe you aren't familiar with both systems. They're VERY different.

Last edited by Boblawblah; 10/07/22 01:16 AM.
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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
I like the chain system.

I like it, too. Works well. I can maneuver all of my characters easily and quickly. Sometimes I wonder if the folks who don't like it never figured out how to use it properly?

For instance, I recall one person talking about how they kept jumping off the nautiloid on mistake, and I was thinking, gosh, that might be more of a user issue than a problem with the chain system.

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Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
I like the chain system.

I like it, too. Works well. I can maneuver all of my characters easily and quickly.
No, you can't.
Put it in a video as proof and I'll believe it.

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Sometimes I wonder if the folks who don't like it never figured out how to use it properly?
Eh, I'm almost willing to bet I could probably TEACH YOU how to play better with this system. Which still doesn't make it better than the alternatives, anyway.
You just like to comfort yourself in this self-serving lie that "The others probably aren't as skilled as me" when the real issue is that you are somehow willfully blind toward the objective failures of the system.

Last edited by Tuco; 10/07/22 01:40 AM.
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Originally Posted by The Composer
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Best part [Wolfheart] keeps mentioning is the improved UI. Except for the shit map. And that toilet chain struggle is real (hes not mentioning it but its obvious when watching him play...)

He's mentioned it in a previous stream a long while ago, but I'd get a few more gray hairs of the time I'd spend trying to find it.

I suspect that may be in the video where he listed the main and most frequent criticisms/things players would like Larian to address.

Also, in the category "people followed on YouTube who mentioned the toilet chain as frustrating", I remember that at some point Felicia Day played BG3 in a streamed video and mentioned it.


Originally Posted by robertthebard
I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I do have to laugh at "use the old BG system" thing, because all that really changes is where we click and drag. If you wanted to move characters individually, you still had to issue a group wide hold command to do it, which is essentially unchaining them...

Wait, what ? I am confused and I don't think I get what you meant to say. We click-and-drag what, and in what game's control scheme ?

Anyway, here are just a couple of differences, which prove that there is more than one. (And also that the classical control scheme is superior, but hey, there's perhaps a reason the rest of the video game industry did not introduce the Larian chain breakthrough before Larian did it, and why it has not been massively adopted since then.)

  • The classical scheme (used in most party-based CRPG and RTS and, you know, every Operating System ever) uses Selection whereas BG3 uses Groups (i.e. locked Selections).
    In BG1-2, you can move Characters {A, B, C} to Location 1, then select Character D to move them to Location 2 and do things with them. Then when you select character C to move them to Location 2, next to D, you only get Character C selected. In BG3 you automatically have A and B selected with (and following) C, since they formed a Group when you last moved them. Which, of course, is highly cumbersome.

  • With the classical scheme, adding or removing a character to the current selection could be done with Ctrl+Click. In BG3, to add a character to a Group, you have to drag-and-connect their portrait (which takes longer to execute than the Ctr+Click input). And to remove a character from a Group, you can either drag-far-away their portrait (which again is more cumbersome than Ctrl+Click) or use RightClick>Ungroup (which takes 2 clicks, and you have to be a bit careful in the drop-down menu, to select the correct option, so it's really bad).

  • The classical scheme, in BG1-2, allowed form party formations. The chain system doesn't.

  • After a fight in BG1-2, your characters did not all converge to the last character to act in the fight (and who now the selected character), walking where they should not in the process.

  • In BG1-2, selecting all your character one after the other (say, to drink potions, cast spells, etc), did not cause them to shuffle around.

  • (Theoretical) In BG1-2, if we had wanted to issue a command, such as Stealth or Dash, to the whole group it would probably have been trivial. And when we want to order the selection to Stop Moving, it was easy as there was a button for it (let's leave aside the fact that we had a Pause function that didn't take endless seconds to react). In BG3, after all this time in EA, there is now a Group Stealth command and it isn't even that good. Don't even think about stopping the movement of the whole group in an instant.

Last edited by Drath Malorn; 10/07/22 01:43 AM. Reason: added a point

Hoping we'll be able to create great assumptions-free Custom Characters and be given great roleplay options.
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