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The more I watch BG3 evolves the more I see it drifts farther and farther away from what I’ve been promised in the first trailer video.



Grim, bleak image that was considered by many as a guaranty by Larian to abandon their cartoon-y art style ended up nowhere to be seen in the game’s current state. Furthermore with each new build it becomes more and more evident that this direction will only be strengthening as soon as the core art team is devoted to the vision they developed throughout their past projects. The last update has elevated this dissonance even further with its emphasis on dancing, singing and fancy hairstyles.

So I was wandering whether I am the only one who noticed this striking difference between the first announcement trailer and the game’s art style evolved throughout the EA. Does anybody else feel that was misleading? Share your thoughts please.

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Originally Posted by VenusP
The last update has elevated this dissonance even further with its emphasis on dancing, singing and fancy hairstyles.
Not quite sure how would you like to present Bards without emphasis on dancing, singing and fancy things ...
Or even better how woudl you like to present dark and grym Bards ... specificly please. smile

Personaly i dont think this game is anyhow far from this trailer ... maybe a bit with curent pastel collors on hair ... but hardly any more ... there is still many quite dark and adult themes in this game. smile

---

BTW GM4Him ... have you noticed? Daytime is static in this trailer! laugh
There is sun shining as in middle of the day ... and in next scene, there is everything dark and shadowy even tho clouds dont even move. laugh

Was that a hint? laugh


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Larian does not care about the franchise or the ruleset. Yes, they generated a lot of interest by pretending to make a 5E game. Swen has wanted the cache of the license for a long time. It will make a lot of money just based on reputation. This is part of the videogame industry.

This game is targeted at young stream-watchers and redditors with short attention spans and a strong preference for memes and inspirational drama over anything else (such as gameplay). The kiddies chat on streams all day and share dumb GIFs back and forth, and Larian wants their dollars. That is the gaming market right now. If you actually know anything about D&D, your money is taken for granted here, and there is no need to cater to your desire for mechanics, challenges, complexity, etc. The kiddies don't like anything with a learning curve.

Instead of thinking about how misleading the press releases were, just look at this rudimentary product as the latest cringey, "empowering" Larian game with some watered down versions of real games in it. Pretend the D&D logo is not on the game. Then the glass is 25% full!

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I also would want the serious dark themed RPG presented and promised with this trailer. Not the cute disney cartoon animals who talk like humans or the supersaiyan gameplay with exaggerated shoving, jumping and "lightning sets" that we are now getting. A grown up D&D game that respects the originals, but Larian can only make tongue in cheek DOS games that borrow a lot from MMO's, apparently. Serious and dark doesn't mean there can't be humor in the game.

And I agree, it's getting worse as development goes on. It's like they are forgetting what they are making, or a lack of direction and devs do stuff based on personal preference rather than D&D or clear guidelines.

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One could say that only grown up people who can understand that not everything will go exactly as they want all the time ... deserves grown up game. :P


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And there is the level of maturity you get from the kiddies. Expecting an official D&D game to have D&D in it makes you not a grownup, guys. You don't deserve a good game!

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Originally Posted by machinus
And there is the level of maturity you get from the kiddies. Expecting an official D&D game to have D&D in it makes you not a grownup, guys. You don't deserve a good game!

Except the game, for the most part, does indeed follow the 5e ruleset and already has quite a lot of adult themes. DnD is usually high fantasy, wtf do you want them to do lmao

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Originally Posted by machinus
Larian does not care about the franchise or the ruleset. Yes, they generated a lot of interest by pretending to make a 5E game. Swen has wanted the cache of the license for a long time. It will make a lot of money just based on reputation. This is part of the videogame industry.

This game is targeted at young stream-watchers and redditors with short attention spans and a strong preference for memes and inspirational drama over anything else (such as gameplay). The kiddies chat on streams all day and share dumb GIFs back and forth, and Larian wants their dollars. That is the gaming market right now. If you actually know anything about D&D, your money is taken for granted here, and there is no need to cater to your desire for mechanics, challenges, complexity, etc. The kiddies don't like anything with a learning curve.

Instead of thinking about how misleading the press releases were, just look at this rudimentary product as the latest cringey, "empowering" Larian game with some watered down versions of real games in it. Pretend the D&D logo is not on the game. Then the glass is 25% full!

Well, thanks, I guess? Being that I'm 59 years old, being called young makes my day. I'm not sure about the rest of your rhetoric, but hey, I'll take being called young. I'll tell you another secret, DnD version didn't play into my buy decision either. Baldur's Gate 3 did. I played both of it's predecessors, when they were new releases, so I got hyped for that reason alone. No stream watching/chatting required, nor do I require a reddit account. I'm still trying to figure out where I was misled on the marketing. The main trailer shows people being abducted by mind flayers, and then someone turning into one. So far, I haven't turned into one, but I was certainly abducted. That's a pretty dark theme, in and of itself, let alone all the stuff in the 2 acts that we know nothing about, and whatever is being held back in this one.

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Originally Posted by Silent Cetra
Originally Posted by machinus
And there is the level of maturity you get from the kiddies. Expecting an official D&D game to have D&D in it makes you not a grownup, guys. You don't deserve a good game!

Except the game, for the most part, does indeed follow the 5e ruleset and already has quite a lot of adult themes. DnD is usually high fantasy, wtf do you want them to do lmao


It does do its best to follow 5e, and as long as Larian provides good mod support, it can be almost spot on.

Now I don't believe there is any evil intent here, just the opposite. Larian is making the game as good as it can be, the best that they know how.

BG3 is a great comeback for the genre...its not finished, but at the least will be a win and at its best ...a Victory.



Going forward it is up to Wizards of the Coast to communicate clear guidelines to companies that produce games based on their intellectual property.

This probably not the first time that WOTC has granted the freedom poetic license. In general it can yield good creative energy.


* Using the franchise name has shown that the interest is still there.

* Larian has proven that turn-based is viable, and can be improved upon (swarm AI version 1).

* Solasta has proven that the RAW is completely doable and fun!

* Solasta also demonstrated being a low budget theme park ride, with limited graphics, and no hype will not generate the numbers.

I mean I loved it! Unfortunately Tactical Adventures doesn't want the headache of growing big and will probably not make a Faerun open world title.


I remember when D&D titles came out like clockwork (until Gary Gygax passed).

Going forward, WOTC can be confident that a company that combines elements from both efforts will be even better.

Note: D&D 6 is upcoming (Hope they bring back alignment, cuz DMs never stopped implementing it).

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
One could say that only grown up people who can understand that not everything will go exactly as they want all the time ... deserves grown up game. :P
Posting snarky comments without any actual content just to attempt to devalue other people's opinions is about as juvenile as it gets.

Grown-ups can talk about a game even if they have different preferences without targeting each other or attempting to tear each other's posts to shreds on a microscopic level.

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Originally Posted by machinus
And there is the level of maturity you get from the kiddies. Expecting an official D&D game to have D&D in it makes you not a grownup, guys. You don't deserve a good game!
Nah, its exactly this attiude that is inmature. smile

Originally Posted by 1varangian
Posting snarky comments without any actual content just to attempt to devalue other people's opinions is about as juvenile as it gets.

Grown-ups can talk about a game even if they have different preferences without targeting each other or attempting to tear each other's posts to shreds on a microscopic level.
Indeed? Funny ...
What exactly was your "deep and completely unrelated to attempt to devalue others" content here, please? :P

I know you were trying tho ...
But i have very good detector for hypocrisy. smile


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There's a lot to like about the game (like gameplay), but the gradual drag away from what looked like a dark fantasy game featuring notes of Eldritch Horrors into a colorful/saturated, high-fantasy, jokey romp has been a disappointing feature of the Early Access, especially given what we thought we were promised in early marketing. This isn't people having ridiculous expectations like Cyberpunk... this is people being mad that the direction we thought Larian was taking was somehow a mistake from the start. I saw this mentioned https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiaroscuro as being missing in the new direction and I have to agree.


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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
gradual drag away from what looked like a dark fantasy
I dunno ...

There are scenes about killing childerns ...
There are scenes including eating sentient beings ...
There are scenes where your character have to participate in torture ...
There are scenes including painful forced transformation into different creature ...

What more "dark fantasy" do you want? laugh

Yes, our characters can have colorfull and pastel pink hair (and beard) ... and yes, animals are able to create whole sentences ... and yes, not whole existence in this world is pure grym, gore and desperation ...

How can this outweight everything that stay in the game is beyond me. O_o


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
gradual drag away from what looked like a dark fantasy
I dunno ...

There are scenes about killing childerns ...
There are scenes including eating sentient beings ...
There are scenes where your character have to participate in torture ...
There are scenes including painful forced transformation into different creature ...

What more "dark fantasy" do you want? laugh

Yes, our characters can have colorfull and pastel pink hair (and beard) ... and yes, animals are able to create whole sentences ... and yes, not whole existence in this world is pure grym, gore and desperation ...

How can this outweight everything that stay in the game is beyond me. O_o

Please don't straw man my argument. I made no mention of whole story beats, and my critique was clearly focused around visuals, aesthetics, and tone. DOS2 (significantly darker than DOS1) had people having their souls removed (sometimes by your own character) into empty husks, along with the crucifixion of those still-living husks, references to the varied torture/punishment methods of Braccus Rex, the imprisonment of children, the ability to slaughter an entire city, the ability to slaughter entire peoples, an early scene where you watch the equivalent of a magical lobotomy, and way more. It also had the Magicockerel, goofy merchants, and other joke characters, an at-times cartoonish style (that was still a dramatic improvement over DOS1), and a lack of consistent tone. *Morally dark scenes are not the same thing as maintaining a dark fantasy aesthetic.* You can make a film about torturing people and use a bright, old school Disney-like aesthetics and people would not be talking about its dark aesthetic. In fact, there have been many works that parody children's animation with gore and other "dark" events, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Tree_Friends, but we do not refer to these as "dark" animation. By "gradual drag," I am already conceding that the game initially had features of dark fantasy, which include (but are not limited to) what you mentioned in your post, and that Larian is moving away from such an approach. I made no statement as to there being some "outweighing" or substitution of dark moments for dark aesthetic. In fact, I am satisfied with the "dark" moments, but I am talking about an aesthetic ideal. If I had to point to what I mean, compare Dragon Age Origins to the rest of the series, or Morrowind/Skyrim to Oblivion https://i.redd.it/2ev31s0rqrd41.png , or DOS2 when just compared to DOS1, or the FROMSOFT games compared to the whole industry. Visually, we are losing dark aesthetics and contrast each patch. Except for the Nautilloid, the sense of fear and desperation is vanished from the game, only held up in that sequence by the color palette of the Hells and the body horror of the Illithids.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Nah, its exactly this attiude that is inmature. smile

I know you were trying tho ...

But i have very good detector for hypocrisy. smile

Another masterful post by our resident genius. We are all grateful for your valuable contribution. After displaying such high intelligence, I am sure many people will change their minds! There is so much knowledge and wisdom in everything you write.

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Not touching the insults or the name-calling.
--------------------------------------------------------
By the way, the teaser in the forum post is what convinced me that not only was Larian the right studio for the IP, but that they were gonna get really freaky with it. I still think the EA is a fundamentally good game, but I can only hope the latter part is still true.


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Like it or not, Larian makes rated R Disney games. Its great because you sorta hit 3 audiences with the same rock. Kids, teenagers and young adults (20 to 30yo).
Not sure I would call that <dark fantasy> though.

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Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Like it or not, Larian makes rated R Disney games. Not sure I would call that <dark fantasy>.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dark_fantasy_role-playing_video_games


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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Originally Posted by mr_planescapist
Like it or not, Larian makes rated R Disney games. Not sure I would call that <dark fantasy>.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Dark_fantasy_role-playing_video_games

Alright then, BG3 is a Dark fantasy rated R Disney game. lol.
Calling it <dark fantasy> Doesn't change a thing in the mood and art style Larian adopted. Same as calling it <Baldur's gate> does not auto-make it a Baldur's gate game in terms of mood, immersion and art style.

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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
gradual drag away from what looked like a dark fantasy
I dunno ...

There are scenes about killing childerns ...
There are scenes including eating sentient beings ...
There are scenes where your character have to participate in torture ...
There are scenes including painful forced transformation into different creature ...

What more "dark fantasy" do you want? laugh

Yes, our characters can have colorfull and pastel pink hair (and beard) ... and yes, animals are able to create whole sentences ... and yes, not whole existence in this world is pure grym, gore and desperation ...

How can this outweight everything that stay in the game is beyond me. O_o

Please don't straw man my argument. I made no mention of whole story beats, and my critique was clearly focused around visuals, aesthetics, and tone. DOS2 (significantly darker than DOS1) had people having their souls removed (sometimes by your own character) into empty husks, along with the crucifixion of those still-living husks, references to the varied torture/punishment methods of Braccus Rex, the imprisonment of children, the ability to slaughter an entire city, the ability to slaughter entire peoples, an early scene where you watch the equivalent of a magical lobotomy, and way more. It also had the Magicockerel, goofy merchants, and other joke characters, an at-times cartoonish style (that was still a dramatic improvement over DOS1), and a lack of consistent tone. *Morally dark scenes are not the same thing as maintaining a dark fantasy aesthetic.* You can make a film about torturing people and use a bright, old school Disney-like aesthetics and people would not be talking about its dark aesthetic. In fact, there have been many works that parody children's animation with gore and other "dark" events, like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Tree_Friends, but we do not refer to these as "dark" animation. By "gradual drag," I am already conceding that the game initially had features of dark fantasy, which include (but are not limited to) what you mentioned in your post, and that Larian is moving away from such an approach. I made no statement as to there being some "outweighing" or substitution of dark moments for dark aesthetic. In fact, I am satisfied with the "dark" moments, but I am talking about an aesthetic ideal. If I had to point to what I mean, compare Dragon Age Origins to the rest of the series, or Morrowind/Skyrim to Oblivion https://i.redd.it/2ev31s0rqrd41.png , or DOS2 when just compared to DOS1, or the FROMSOFT games compared to the whole industry. Visually, we are losing dark aesthetics and contrast each patch. Except for the Nautilloid, the sense of fear and desperation is vanished from the game, only held up in that sequence by the color palette of the Hells and the body horror of the Illithids.

Hmm... So the BSN was alight with "there's no darkness in Inquisition". Of course, they chose to ignore walking through the field of crispy corpses, I guess because it happened off camera? As someone with thousands of hours in the Dragon Age series, what about the initial part of the Stone Prisoner DLC? What about the Peak, where you retake the warden stronghold? What about Alistair's doll collection, or licking lamp posts? You see, I kinda see where you're trying to go, but I'm looking at this through a different lens, this is an RPG, not a survival horror game. In that genre, all tension, all the time is expected. In this genre, I expect to have moments of levity, or downright absurdity thrown in. Sometimes at really inappropriate times.

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