Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback How to make the Grove battle even more story-impactfull

At fist this should have ben just coment in different topic ...
But as i wrote it, it seemed more and more offtopic, so ... why not create new one that will be forgotten in a week or two?

I would like to use this opourtunity to suggest that Grove Battle should be more impactfull in my opinion.

1) Wyll should leave our party the second we decide to betray tieflings and open the gate ...
Its really funny how he helps us massacre all those inocent civilians ... and then at evening, in camp, he calls us murderer and monster and leaves angry ... but it makes no narrative sense.

2) Selfish Evil characters should leave us after the battle, if we decide to join with Tieflings ...
Lae'zel keeps pushing us that we should ignore everything and go search for Creche ... people often suggested around here that she seems exactly as a person who would get angry after being stuck in camp for few days with no progress on HER personal mission ... this seem like golden opourtunity!

Same goes for Astarion ... even tho, i believe he should be persuatable(?) as Gale is when you join with Goblins ... after all, killing all those Goblins was fun, wasnt it?

3) Please let us persuate druids to join the defenses ...
If nothing else, AT THE VERY LEAST Kagha herself ... if we are druid, if we allready redeemed Kagha, and if she allready titled us Faithwarden ... i believe her exact words were: "When you speak, circles will listen!" ...
Well then, listen here you little coward shits!

4) Think about adding rest of our party to defense ...
I mean i realize this is quite controversial suggestion ... but try to think about it a little, we are about to get sieged, countless civilians will get massacred if we fail, we will be outnumbered 3:1 at least ... what sensible person would leave another two combatants sitting in camp pokig bonfire with a stick?
This become especialy true if one of those combatants is Wyll! :-/
We know your engine can handle 6 members party, and even if just temporary, this would be perfect opourtunity to use it! :P
But even if not ... let them join just as friendly NPCs ... just for narrative purposes.

5) Let Halsin come in in case everything goes bad ...
After all, he was right behind us ... it would make sense that he would reach the gate in aproximately simmilar time as we did.
I would tie it to the gate for example ... let Goblins attack the gate > once they break it ... Halsin spawns at the North and unleash Nature Wrath!

eh ... i had something else in mind, but i forget it ... will edit it later if i remember.

#1: Agree. In general, the companions should be more vocal about their opinions and reactive *while events are going on, not just after.*

#2. Disagree. There's no reason why Selfish Evil (which are basically the same terms in D&D) Characters would inherently dislike siding with tieflings. Selfish Evil doesn't mean "likes murdering innocents and is disgusted by saving them." My suggestion is: Lae'zel should leave to go to the Gith Patrol if you haven't gone there after X long rests, rather than arbitrarily after one specific night. Alternatively/in-addition, she leaves when her approval goes below a certain threshold (every long rest adds disapproval), and taking time to save the grove has her "Greatly Disapprove." If you've already gone to the Gith Patrol, then her approval of you will probably be high enough that she won't leave. If not, then this new disapproval will probably be enough that she leaves.

#3-5 are all good and reasonable in-universe, but they would slow down combat by adding a bunch of defender NPCs (and correspondingly a likely increase in the number of attackers) that you'd now have to wait through their turns. Having your full 6-person party as controllable characters might be good, but it would set a bad precedent for when you might have 8 or 10 companions; do they now have to be present for all Big Fights? Also, when I last played Halsin was definitely present if you saved him...did they remove that?

I've played through EA three, maybe four times and while I've never reached the Underdark (the one time I got close, I couldn't figure out how to get through the gate under the temple of Selune and just gave up the playthrough) I've gotten to that point maybe three times. I've never encountered the grove battle because I always kill the cult leaders. What series of events actually leads to the battle if you're not taking the evil path? I can't really think what that would be at this point.

I agree that the druids should help. I wonder if that would be too much when it comes to performance, though? More people fighting is more of a strain, I imagine. Especially considering that the goblins would need reinforcements to even stand a chance.

As for slowing down the combat for the player, I don't care. I don't mind sitting through the enemy turns. Doesn't bother me in the slightest; in fact, I enjoy watching the combat play out.

I recently had a playthrough where I stole the idol and triggered a grove wide fight. Everyone was involved, all the tieflings and druids in one long strand of combatants at the top of the screen, all ordered in initiative. It was glorious.

You have to read a little futher than to general name of group ... :-/

Even if i would call them emo ducks ... it dont change the fact that both Lae'zel and Astarion repeatedly expressed their discomfort, when you were promissing to help Tieflings.
Just as Wyll expresses his, when you act like you want to side with goblins ...

Therefore it seemed perfectly logical that they would be discuised beyond measures by final act ...
Astarion bcs he simply hates it ... and Lae'zel bcs she have important things to do.

This idea was here allready ... the problem is that you technicaly *may* hit this limit, even if you will be heading straight there to the patrol ... but got a little distracted few times in the way.

Except for that part with long rests, wich is exactly the same suggestion as abowe, wich meets exactly the same problems as abowe ...
I like the rest.

Not with swarm AI. :P

Why?
It would be another reward for you ... making the defense a little easier.

Its just odd that you manage to "redeem Kagha" into "lets provide helping hand to anyone in need" but next minute, once army of Goblins is there she transforms back into "protect my own only, let the rest of the world burn". :-/

Idealy, yes.
Nah, just joking ... thats my general despite of party limits in CRPGs ...

How about make them part of defense, but dont include them into *this* fight?
As it was in Dragon Age: Origins ... in final battle your whole party had to split into two groups, one group went to fight Arcidemon ... the other group stayed in the city and guarded the main gate against his Horde ...
So, we could easily just take unused companions, include them into planning of defenses ... and then send them guarding some other post. :P

Dunno ...
I didnt try that in Patch 8 ... but i would swear last time i tryed leading Minthara to the grove Halsin was not there, he appeared right after the combat ended ... and that seems really odd, since we went both together.
Not sure if that was 7 or 6 tho. :-/

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Seems not like much more people than when you start fight in the Grove.

Why they need stand a chance tho? O_o
I mean, you did your extra work (investigating and redeeming Kagha) ... here is your extra reward!

You really haven't been to the Underdark yet? There are several ways to get there, you don't have to do the moon puzzle. It's definitely worth exploring!

That would be like a punishment for me, lol. Not only would I not get the great amulet she's wearing, I wouldn't get the challenging fight.

/shrug ... cant please everyone

No I have not. I've tried to roleplay my character as much as possible and I could never come across a roleplay reason to try another route into the Underdark. The only other route I as a player even know of is somewhere in the spider lair. And honestly, I actually got through the moon puzzle, i jsut couldn't get through the actual gate thing underground after that, it was very frustrating.

Also, I've heard on the forums about really difficult fights like the Bulette and something to do with minotaurs, and from what I gather they're comparable to the spider fight, if not the gith patrol, both fights I hated and were super hard for me even though I did actually beat the spider in the end, so honestly that dampens my enthusiasm for the underdark as well.

The Bulette is more annoying than difficult, and the Minotaurs tucked away in a corner you can avoid easily. The Duergar guarding the route to the Grymforge are the real fight, they're on par with the Githyanki, especially if you don't know it's coming.

As for getting past the Selunite outpost, I think the only way to turn off the moonstone is to destroy it, otherwise you have to work your way around to the petrified Drow...right, that's another somewhat difficult fight, but you can bypass it too. You should really explore the Underdark, it's pretty cool looking, with some interesting stuff.

I'll probably try it eventually. If not during EA (because admittedly I've kinda fallen off the game for the last several patches) then during full release. I honestly do not think I ever managed to figure out how to destroy the moonstone though, so that's just another thing to note. The game stumped me there.

Though if the Duergar are on par with the Githyanki, that's a big point against honestly. I gave up on the Githyanki fight long ago and don't even intend to try it until I can level up past level 4. Or until full release and I can play on the lowest difficulty.

...I'm beginning to wonder if BG3 is really a game for me, despite my love for crpgs. But that's another issue all together.

The Githyanki fight can be tough, even if you cheese it, but they and the Duergar can be bluffed past.

Uhm ... guys? The Grove? Druids?
You know that part that dont include Githyanki or Underdark?