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[/spoiler]It is quite possible that Tav's actions will influence the development of the origin characters. How much is anyone's guess.

I have only recently (patch8) run with Gale and Astarian (since I solved the CTD issue).


Since Astarian is on the hot seat:


I find him to be less annoying than I imagined him to be, but still not someone I would associate with by choice.

200 years ago he was a Magistrate, ie lawful...but then he was turned and now a fugitive of the law and why I categorize him as neutral now.


I keep hearing that he likes to torture people. I haven't seen it yet, so don't spoil that please.

I did get the story that his Master tortured him, and forcing him to "get" his master the "kindest souls". Of course as a spawn, he explains that he was powerless to disobey.

His sarcasm in recounting the tail indicates (to me) that this was something he did not want to do, nor approve of..."There are monsters worse than Mindflayers".

Are people misinterpreting this? He was defiantly a victim of torture for two centuries. Now if he has approved of torturous acts that Tav has done, well I wouldn't know.


He is absolutely a hypocrite, and Tav points this out to him when he seems reluctant to help others..."No one helped me" is his justification.


Does he go out of his way to harm others...I have seen no evidence of this...yet perhaps..."I'm not a Monster you know".

He gets his blood from animals, yet tries to steal a sip when he feels weakened. I really get the impression that he wants to believe that he hasn't lost every shred of his humanity...if he ever had it. He was beaten for a ruling he made as Magistrate so it doesn't appear that he was ever empathetic for others.

He is beyond selfish for sure. Can Astarian grow a spine and be willing to put his own well being on the line for others? I dunno.


Last edited by Van'tal; 31/07/22 06:28 PM.
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Indeed ... but time flow, and timed events are still two separate topics ... that can indeed work well together, but also can be implemented separately. smile

//Edit:
Originally Posted by Van'tal
He gets his blood from animals, yet tries to steal a sip when he feels weakened.
There was actualy deeper reason for this. smile
But we arent suppose to know (yet) since we cant play as Origin characters. wink

Last edited by RagnarokCzD; 31/07/22 06:25 PM.

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@Van'tal Without spoiling the game for you: there is at least one instance where he approves of Tav torturing a man, another where he encourages Tav to submit to being tortured for his pleasure, one where he confesses that his master had them both submit to torture and to torture others...
...for me, it's a wonder Astarion is still (somewhat) sane but also able to fake being normal for so long.
He's traumatized and I feel bad knowing what he went through - and still going through - but he's still a elitist, racist, sadistic, deeply disturbed individual.

Like GM4Him mentioned in some of his posts, in PnP, if he didn't fake it (and fake it better than what we get ingame) players would see such NPCs as dangerous or untrustworthy... and either kill them or refuse to take them along. smile

(But he's got a good VA, his stats are good, his bite is good, his character design is sexy, so until he tries to kill Tav for real - not these half-assed attempts, he's staying with the team. He's a sort of... disaggreable, morally-revolting eye candy. Like Lae'zel. laugh
There's a stake with his name on it if he ever tries to betray Tav&team to Cazador; ...though being able to put a boot up his arse whenever he starts with the racist remarks would be such a plus. Larian, please!)

Spoiler with locations:
Shattered sanctum - guy on the rack; Shattered sanctum - priest of Loviathar; Camp - talk after bite;


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Originally Posted by Neleothesze
@Van'tal Without spoiling the game for you: there is at least one instance where he approves of Tav torturing a man, another where he encourages Tav to submit to being tortured for his pleasure, one where he confesses that his master had them both submit to torture and to torture others...
...for me, it's a wonder Astarion is still (somewhat) sane but also able to fake being normal for so long.
He's traumatized and I feel bad knowing what he went through - and still going through - but he's still a elitist, racist, sadistic, deeply disturbed individual.

Like GM4Him mentioned in some of his posts, in PnP, if he didn't fake it (and fake it better than what we get ingame) players would see such NPCs as dangerous or untrustworthy... and either kill them or refuse to take them along. smile

(But he's got a good VA, his stats are good, his bite is good, his character design is sexy, so until he tries to kill Tav for real - not these half-assed attempts, he's staying with the team. He's a sort of... disaggreable, morally-revolting eye candy. Like Lae'zel. laugh
There's a stake with his name on it if he ever tries to betray Tav&team to Cazador; ...though being able to put a boot up his arse whenever he starts with the racist remarks would be such a plus. Larian, please!)

Spoiler with locations:
Shattered sanctum - guy on the rack; Shattered sanctum - priest of Loviathar; Camp - talk after bite;


I on the other hand hate everything about Astarion- voice and looks included. I agree with Tuco on the characterisation and I will add, while the voice actor does a good job in making Astarion sound like the whiny entitled bastard, he is, the voice is just plain annoying for me.


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I actually like Astarion, which is partially why the intro bugs me. If he didn't try to kill me, I would gladly bring him along and even when I find out he's a strange vampire spawn, I'd maybe think of trying to help him except he again tries to kill me by almost biting me in my sleep.

Consequently, Sebille in DOS2 is the ONLY origin character I rejected immediately. Why? She put a needle to my throat. Why would I want to take her with me? The narrator even says I'm not sure how I'm going to sleep with her around.

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Originally Posted by GM4Him
I actually like Astarion, which is partially why the intro bugs me. If he didn't try to kill me, I would gladly bring him along and even when I find out he's a strange vampire spawn, I'd maybe think of trying to help him except he again tries to kill me by almost biting me in my sleep.

Consequently, Sebille in DOS2 is the ONLY origin character I rejected immediately. Why? She put a needle to my throat. Why would I want to take her with me? The narrator even says I'm not sure how I'm going to sleep with her around.

After multiple attempts to get through DOS2 with the companions, I ended up just using Lone Wolf perk and going solo. I could not stand a single one of the companions in that game.


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Originally Posted by Neleothesze
He's traumatized and I feel bad knowing what he went through - and still going through - but he's still a elitist, racist, sadistic, deeply disturbed individual.

I think Astarion is definitely a character who will not leave you indifferent. On the one hand, I feel sorry for him, he is clearly traumatized, and what has happened to him is horrible. On the other hand, the character traits you mention are indeed repulsive, and I must admit I catch myself becoming a bit angry whenever he says something stupid.

So on paper, he should be a character I would not necessarily take in my party - but actually, I keep him in my party every time, and most times, my Tav will even romance him (because I really want to see where this is going, especially with a "nice" Tav).

To me, it's intriguing that despite all of his flaws, there is still something about him. Something that makes me wish my kind hearted Tav could have a bit of a positive influence on him, and hoping he would reconsider his behaviour and attitude in the course of the game (as I said before, I'm always up for character development).

I think Neil Newbon's excellent voice acting contributes significantly to this, he gives Astarion a lot of nuance and depth. I am very impressed by his range, his Astarion is seductive, arrogant, sometimes vulnerable - and also really terrifying when your Tav mocks his trauma (I have not tried this myself, but I have seen it on YouTube. He can be really threatening).
I like that after some time, you know when Astarion is honest or when he seems to hide behind a facade, just by some subtle nuances in his voice. And of course, the animation/acting is great.
(And yes, I must admit that to me, Astarion's character design is indeed attractive. Everyone in our party is good-looking).

The dialogue scenes I like the most are those where we get to see a different side of our companions (I don't know if this qualifies as a spoiler, but I'll use the spoiler tag, just in case):
One example for Astarion would be the stargazing scene, which is, unfortunately, very easy to miss (I think it triggers before talking to Nettie, but after talking to Zorru about the githyanki creche): When our Tav suggests they could keep travelling together, after they have found the creche, Astarion replies "Good.. I don't want you to run off just yet." And continues that he needs to get some air, and clear his head, looking quite confused. To me, he seems to be genuinely confused about his emotions/thoughts, that maybe he starts to care about our Tav, somehow. Since this scene can play before or after the bite scene, I don't think he necessarily only thinks about "dinner".

I am curious where Astarion's character arc will lead.

Last edited by Lyelle; 01/08/22 01:29 AM. Reason: Some additions
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Personality aside, he's one heck of a rogue. Definitely one of the better built NPCs, in my opinion. Mechanically speaking, that is.

Also, for what it's worth, I don't think his apology is as fake as has been suggested.

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Originally Posted by JandK
Personality aside, he's one heck of a rogue. Definitely one of the better built NPCs, in my opinion. Mechanically speaking, that is.

Also, for what it's worth, I don't think his apology is as fake as has been suggested.
+1
I take Astarion for his mechanics, not his winning personality. But I am intrigued to see where Larian takes Lae'zel and Astarion (hopefully not the same places they took Sebille, Fane, and Red Prince).


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Ok please correct me if I'm wrong here, but there is no good part to Astarion. He is undead. There is no personality or soul left in him. He is an artificially animated meat bag. "He" could not have been tortured for the past 100 years or whatever because "He" ceased to exist the moment he was made a spawn. Kill Cazadore to free him and all you get is Astarion as a full and more powerful undead. The only way he comes back to who he use to be is the use of a Wish spell.

There is no gray here for Astarion, undead are evil and soulless(literally). The only realistic way helping Astarion out ends up is with him turning Tav into his own vampire spawn mind controlled minion once freed from Cazador and a full vamp.

Personally I find Astarion to be the worst written and conceptualized companion in the game.

Last edited by OcO; 01/08/22 01:45 AM.
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Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
But I am intrigued to see where Larian takes Lae'zel and Astarion (hopefully not the same places they took Sebille, Fane, and Red Prince).

I am very curious about Lae'zels character arc,too. How will she react when she discovers that the githjanki never had an intent (or possibility) to cure her, and that "purification" means death?

In my first playthrough, I would not take Lae'zel in my party very often, because I was a bit annoyed by her arrogant, harsh behaviour (well, Astarion is arrogant, too, but at least he would not try to order my Tav to do something). When I finally let her join my party and talked to her, it was very interesting to learn more about her, to see where she is coming from.

She grew up in a society where she is constantly told the githjanki are superior to everyone else, where ruthlessness is rewarded, and she has little to none experience with people outside her own society. She practically worships her queen and believes her to be perfect, she deeply believes what she is told.
I was surprised when I realized how young she must be for a githjanki, and I think this shows in her enthusiasm when she talks about her wish to finally become a kith`rak and ride her own red dragon. And when she talks about her crèche, she almost sounds a bit homesick. Although my helpful, friendly Tav would disagree with her most of the time, she would feel empathy for her.

That does not mean I would let my Tav act contrary to her own convictions; I will still choose the options I have in mind for my Tav, even though they will certainly earn me Lae'zel's (or Astarion's, or sometimes Shadowheart's) disapproval.

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Originally Posted by Lyelle
How will she react when she discovers that the githjanki never had an intent (or possibility) to cure her, and that "purification" means death?

Have a little faith in the zaithisk. It's real, I just know it.

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Originally Posted by JandK
Originally Posted by Lyelle
How will she react when she discovers that the githjanki never had an intent (or possibility) to cure her, and that "purification" means death?

Have a little faith in the zaithisk. It's real, I just know it.

Yes, nobody ever complained that it did not work wink

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Originally Posted by OcO
Ok please correct me if I'm wrong here, but there is no good part to Astarion. He is undead. There is no personality or soul left in him. He is an artificially animated meat bag. "He" could not have been tortured for the past 100 years or whatever because "He" ceased to exist the moment he was made a spawn. Kill Cazadore to free him and all you get is Astarion as a full and more powerful undead. The only way he comes back to who he use to be is the use of a Wish spell.

There is no gray here for Astarion, undead are evil and soulless(literally). The only realistic way helping Astarion out ends up is with him turning Tav into his own vampire spawn mind controlled minion once freed from Cazador and a full vamp.

Personally I find Astarion to be the worst written and conceptualized companion in the game.

I think we're going to learn that this is actually not true. All of it. Typical vampire spawn? Yes. But there's more to Astarion than him being a typical vampire spawn.

For 1, he has infernal tattoos on his back. I think he's some sort of experiment Cazador has been playing with, and he received some devil assistance with it. Perhaps the reason the mind flayers took him was because his soul was put back, returned from Avernus where it went when he died, in his undead body prior to the abduction, and now the tadpole has twisted him into something even more unusual. Who knows?

Either way, I think the whole point of Astarion IS that he is not some soulless undead monster, but he has been somehow turned into a half living, half undead being - prior to the tadpole. Why else would Cazador treat him so unusually?

Or he's totally lying about everything and he actually is Cazador, playing with you and making you think he's got a soul. Lol

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Originally Posted by Lyelle
Originally Posted by Zerubbabel
But I am intrigued to see where Larian takes Lae'zel and Astarion (hopefully not the same places they took Sebille, Fane, and Red Prince).

I am very curious about Lae'zels character arc,too. How will she react when she discovers that the githjanki never had an intent (or possibility) to cure her, and that "purification" means death?

In my first playthrough, I would not take Lae'zel in my party very often, because I was a bit annoyed by her arrogant, harsh behaviour (well, Astarion is arrogant, too, but at least he would not try to order my Tav to do something). When I finally let her join my party and talked to her, it was very interesting to learn more about her, to see where she is coming from.

She grew up in a society where she is constantly told the githjanki are superior to everyone else, where ruthlessness is rewarded, and she has little to none experience with people outside her own society. She practically worships her queen and believes her to be perfect, she deeply believes what she is told.
I was surprised when I realized how young she must be for a githjanki, and I think this shows in her enthusiasm when she talks about her wish to finally become a kith`rak and ride her own red dragon. And when she talks about her crèche, she almost sounds a bit homesick. Although my helpful, friendly Tav would disagree with her most of the time, she would feel empathy for her.

That does not mean I would let my Tav act contrary to her own convictions; I will still choose the options I have in mind for my Tav, even though they will certainly earn me Lae'zel's (or Astarion's, or sometimes Shadowheart's) disapproval.
+1.
I hope they balance the flawed, sheltered aspect of Lae'zel with the brutal, ruthless, borderline cultist mindset she has been educated to have. I think Lae'zel and Astarion represent the most overtly cruel and brutal members of the party, and I hope one gets a path to redemption, while the other just doesn't have good within them. I'm not sure who I would prefer to be which one, but I would love to see different paths for evil characters based on personality. I also think it would add realism. Some people ARE redeemable, no matter how evil they may seem, and it would be a very satisfying character arc. Still, other people are NOT redeemable, and it would add to the experience of independent characters for someone to remain cruel, despite your best efforts. Especially if you have both in your party as a "good" player... to succeed in redeeming one and fail in redeeming another would give a level of earned satisfaction to the redemption process, and a sense of gravity to the independent decision-making of the characters.


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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Lets trade quality for quality in this argue:
Nope.
Well, it's not my fault if you have the memory of a goldfish.
The topic has been argued to death and back a million times already and you were often there for the ride. It's not reasonable to expect to get a personal summary of every past conversation only because you conveniently dismiss it with "It's just cosmetic".

When in fact it's not. It's so NOT only cosmetic that paradoxically it happen to have non-cosmetic implications even even when initially implemented only with the goal of being cosmetic.

The claim that no game in the past suffered for the lack of day/night cycle is also opinable at best. Plenty of those who lacked the feature were diminished by it. At best it can be argued that they were not diminished to the point of becoming bad games... Which wiill also be true for BG3, probably.
It still doesn't make it an ideal design solution for what's supposed to be an immersive D&D experience.

Last edited by Tuco; 01/08/22 04:08 AM.
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Originally Posted by GM4Him
For 1, he has infernal tattoos on his back. I think he's some sort of experiment Cazador has been playing with, and he received some devil assistance with it. Perhaps the reason the mind flayers took him was because his soul was put back, returned from Avernus where it went when he died, in his undead body prior to the abduction, and now the tadpole has twisted him into something even more unusual. Who knows?

Either way, I think the whole point of Astarion IS that he is not some soulless undead monster, but he has been somehow turned into a half living, half undead being - prior to the tadpole. Why else would Cazador treat him so unusually?

Or he's totally lying about everything and he actually is Cazador, playing with you and making you think he's got a soul. Lol

If Astarion is Cazador, I will shit myself in sheer astonishment and upload it to the forum.

(Please don't ban me; I'm only joking... or AM I?)


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Quote: I on the other hand hate everything about Astarion- voice and looks included. I agree with Tuco on the characterisation and I will add, while the voice actor does a good job in making Astarion sound like the whiny entitled bastard, he is, the voice is just plain annoying for me.

The same thing happened to me with Lae'zel.

I didn't take her into my party to be her best friend, rather was intrigued and tolerant out of pure curiosity on how they would portray this exotic race.

Hours and hours of her bitching finally stepped on my last nerve, so I leave her in the cage...or shoot the bottom out and surprisingly she gets owned by the Tieflings.


Now with Astarian, viewing him objectively, he is a mess...and his charm? Not there for me.

The Sado-Masacism may just be a wink to the sexual kink that is clearly evident (but not mainstream) in our own society...I ignore this.


Would he perform non-consensual acts of cruelty on others?...still not convinced, but neither am I dismissive.

I have for the first time seen him as a human being (turned aside). When I tell him its OK to defend himself against the "monster hunter", the party expresses doubts about his presence. If I respond that I will not view him as a monster, than the mood lightens, and the party excepts him at arms length.

This is what made me wonder if our actions effect our companions.

Is this the reason for this incredibly huge dialog tree?


This game is a FAR cry from other games where I looked forward to spending time with the NPCs....this is for sure.

I seriously have no confidence that Larion can make a single character that I view as anything more than someone I work with (a true friend). Wyll being a possible exception (friend-wise).

Doubly so with females...that is a shame really. I enjoy having an appealing female in the party.

Last edited by Van'tal; 01/08/22 10:07 AM.
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Unrelated Meme
Originally Posted by Van'tal
Doubly so with females...that is a shame really. I enjoy having an appealing female in the party.
Wrex moment

Edit: In case it wasn't clear, I mean this in good fun as a joke, not to mock or correct

Last edited by Zerubbabel; 01/08/22 05:40 AM.

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GIve me Tali'Zorah and I will be happy.

Wrex can tank...my favorite characters to make have been tanky, but for Wrex I will adjust.

Wrex would probably say "Don't tank me".

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