Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Help Tips & Tricks Making arcane trickster Astarion work

I've always picked a thief subclass for Astarion, but in my current playthrough I wanted to try an arcane trickster route, but I can't justify the pick and could use an advice and a little bit of brainstorming.

Attention - I am not looking for a response that it in any way sucks or it can't be done. Rather I am looking for a tip or an idea how we can do it. Make it a competitor (or at least come as close as we can) to a thief Astarion route.

I started my thinking with an idea that in BG3 a core feature of a good rogue build is a sneak attack, which packs a punch. An arcane trickster has an access to this feature, so there is hope. So there are two possible prerequisites for a sneak attack - an advantage or an ally near the target. The first one definitely favors a thief route, because the easiest advantage is sneak, which can be done via bonus action. The second though, somewhat favours the arcane trickster, because an invisible mage hand counts as an enabler for a sneak attack. Something to think about and optimize around here.

Another thing is Astarion's intelligence (it is 13). And even more than that - the significance of an intelligence attribute for arcane trickster in EA, in general. I find it rather low, because:
- low spell slot count
- only lvl 1 spells
- no way to replenish spell slots
- cantrips are weak on lower levels
And, the most importantly:
- any spell you cast competes with a far superior sneak attack

That leads to a conclusion of sorts, that an arcane trickster:
- has a superior class action, so it's action point is always reserved
- should probably opt towards permabuffs (false life/mage armor), utility spells (protection from evil/good, grease, fog cloud?), summons (find familiar) or complimentary spells that use bonus action (featherfall may be, but it is questionable because it's low impact and if you melee you need your dash to cover distance)

Those are my first thoughts, but there are some other things to figure out: equipment, weapons, party comp and so on. Any help is appreciated.

It's definitely a difficult task, not because the Arcane Trickster is bad, but because Thief is so amazing.

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My first thoughts:

Sleep is a powerful choice. Especially if more than one character has it, allowing you to spam the spell in combat. I think you'll find there are times when Astarion will rather do that than take a sneak attack.

Personally, I like Disguise Self for Astarion. It works in a roleplaying sense because he might want to hide from vampire hunters, and it's also nice because Astarion gets Speak with Dead for free if you give him the Necromancy of Thay book. Being able to disguise himself allows Astarion to question the dead, even if the party caused the death in question.

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I like Find Familiar for Astarion. The raven has excellent mobility and can help Astarion get sneak attacks. As a side note, it's always good to try to get the familiar an extra five hit points from an Aid spell, if possible. Makes it a bit more robust and long lasting.

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I wouldn't worry too much about his Int. as long you don't pick spells that lean heavily on the attribute. Which means there's probably no reason to waste his helmet slot on the warped headband of intellect.

That said, it might be worth getting the Circlet of Fire and taking something like Chromatic Orb. That way you can throw out a fire spell and get a bonus action, which translates into another off hand attack for Astarion. Either a second melee weapon or a second hand crossbow.

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Note: it's worth getting the Spellthief bow for him, in my opinion, even if you change it out for two crossbows later. I mean use it to get a spell slot back and then switch back over to the two hand crossbows.

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In my opinion, your feat is probably best spent taking the moderate armor proficiency and raising his dex by one.

This allows him to use a shield and wear something like the githyanki armor for a 19 AC. Or maybe the dark justiciar armor that causes damage to attackers when he's partially obscured.

For Astarion, I tend to prefer using a shield to having an off hand melee weapon. Mostly because I like his AC being higher, and I can always get that extra off hand attack with a second crossbow.

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I've heard good things about Fog Cloud, but I've never found myself using it all that much. It's definitely good for hiding, as long as you're actually hiding in it as opposed to just standing in it.

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So, I think I would outfit him something like this, maybe:

1. Helmet: Circlet of Fire or Helmet of Grit
2. Amulet: Broodmother's Revenge (Kagha's amulet) --or the Sapphire Spark if you chose Magic Missile
3. Armor: Githyanki Armor
4. Shield: best available, whichever
5. Ranged: two hand crossbows (and Spellthief from the Hag)
6. Melee: magic rapier, eventually Nere's
7. Boots: Speedy Lightfeet or maybe even the Linebreaker Boots
8. Gloves: Gloves of Power (if you're branded) or Fleetfingers for the extra jump after a dash
9. Rings: Smuggler's Ring and something else, maybe the Invisibility Ring later

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This seems like a solid build to me, but it's pretty basic and might be lacking when it comes to flair.

It can work for sure, but it's hindered by not being able to Sneak Attack on offhand.

Thank you for a detailed response!

- I didn't know about the Speak with the Dead/Disguise Self trick, this makes me pick it over Tasha's for sure!

- I always get find familiar on Gale because it is one of the few you can't learn from scrolls and because of that I know that Aid indeed supports the spell very well. Raven is very powerful for the cause of performing sneak attacks, as you pointed out. It can also be used together with a mage hand as of now, so a solid choice.

- I think circlet of fire is best used to fuel powerful bonus actions! And even though the off-hand attack deals some damage for rogues, it doesn't benefit in terms of dmg from the attributes (it does for an off-hand crossbow but I think its a bug). Also low int seems to work poorly with this strat IMO. Does chromatic orb grant you a bonus action if you miss a fire blob as well? Like from the surface?

- I also thought about moderately armored, it is a very good choice, because +2 AC from a shield feels better to me than a sub-par damage you can squeeze from an off-hand attack.

Another thing we could consider here is yet another strong feature of the rogue in general - a Cunning Action: Dash

I think there is also a not that obvious reason why Moderately Armored fits best here. There were a lot of items introduced in the recent patches, and there is a category which benefits from Dash (and we so happily have it on a bonus action)! This can't be overlooked. And moderately armor grants us access to Speedy Lightfeet - making a bonus action dash an obligatory use for your bonus action. It is like a permanent +1 attack +1 damage on your sneak attacks every turn, and +1 attack and 1d8 damage every two turns!

It leaves me with a feeling that the spell we need to take should definately be a passive or a summon, because both our action and bonus action are preoccupied by fantastic rogue actions and their item synergies.

I wonder if it could be done from a completely different perspective though!

I didnt read whole topic, so im sory if someone allready mentioned that ... but as far as i know, this statement is false.

I mean feel free to corect me, since i dont really know tabletop rules so well as for example Niara ... but as far as i know (and i mean i believe i heared that somewhere) Sneak Attack bonus damage SHOULD be applicable to Spells, if you spec Arcane Tricster.
So, if this information is corect and i didnt mess it with something else, there shouldnt really be any decisions in the first place.

I also believe that alone would give Arcane Trickster quite conciderable push, when people are deciding their spec.

//Edit: I stand corected.

Oh, I played a DND campaign and a couple of one shots but I don't know the rules by heart either. But I didn't make myself clear - I asked an advice not because I like theorycrafting, but because I have an actual BG3 run happening right now and I want to apply the advice immediately. That's why I only focus on EA here, specifically the current state of the game!

Sneak attack only works with a finesse or a ranged weapon, so it doesn't work for spells unless the spell involves casting magic into a weapon to make a magical melee attack (e.g., Booming Blade)

Damn ...
My misstake. :-/

Would be cool tho.

Do you need to specificaly conjure your weapon, or it would work for just projectiles?
How about for example Acid Arrow?

After getting lvl3 and giving it a second thought, I ended up picking:

1. Blade Ward and Dancing Light for my cantrips.

- Any of the offensive cantrips are worse than making a ranged normal/sneak attack with 17-18 DEX and kinda oblige me to use the warped headband of intellect.
- I don't find Blade Ward strong, but given the fact that you can Blade Ward, sprint (I decided to go for a chain of liberation + haste helm combo later) and make an off-hand crossbow shot in one turn resulted in a green light here.
- Dancing Lights can be considered not that useful because Astarion has darkvision (12), but sometimes I did find myself up high with a disadvantage on the enemy below, because it was obscured (spider cave...). In this scenario you can't make a sneak shot anyway, because of a disadvantage, so you can cast the lights and make an ohh-hand crossbow shot.

2. For the trickster spells I got Disguise Self (thanks to JandK for a cool suggestion), Sleep and Color Spray. No comments here I think.

3. For a free spell choice I ended up picking magick missile over the familiar. Familiar seemed like a good pick, but considering the existence of the sapphire spark (again thanks to JandK for reminding me that) I thought it a stronger choice. Sometimes you just need to split damage and an enhanced magick missile is a perfect pick for that.

I think I am good to go now!!

You don't specifically need to conjure a weapon. Some spells affect the weapon you're holding, essentially allowing you to channel a spell through a melee attack.

Acid arrow wouldn't work because it doesn't involve a weapon. You're still casting the magic from your hands, just like you do for scorching ray, etc.

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