Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback This game is far too easy to cheese

No, but that's because D:OS1&2 had rather binary systems that didn't warrant much explanation. D:OS1 had some more traditional resistances, and that confused players as one would need to dig into enemy stats to see those, so D:OS2 somplified even that and replaced with rather detrimental armor mechanic - which was just extra HP bar that would block any statuses until depleted.

If there was one thing I was looking forward when BG3 was announced, it was Larian using their budget to make the easiest DnD game to engage with. Alas, their approach so far was to bury DnD systems, and paint a D:OS-lite on top of them, with guaranteed to hit items and surfaces, big focus on spacial positioning, and a vague % based chances to hit.

Playing more of Patch 8, I will say that I am noticing that the game is TONS better than initial EA release. I do think maybe we've been more critical than is warranted. Yes, there are still broken mechanics, but the game is looking more like D&D 5e than several patches ago. Again, it still needs work, but it's improving more than I think many realize. I myself was surprised as I was playing it more to see various mechanics are no longer broken or are at least improved.

+1
I agree. I've also witnessed a net improvement between patches in term of combat mechanics. So I have a hard time relating to some of the comments here.

Nah, I am aware of it. The game is way, way better then it was on launch, or even couple patches ago. Any one remembering when jump would also act as disengagement? I just wish they would took those few extra steps to address stuff that still annoy me.

Overall, I think BG3 is shaping up decently all things considered. I am just disliking some of the fundamental designs - obfuscating underlying mechanics is one of the things that feel like an unnecessary barrier. I do hope they will spend some time on combat log in polishing phase, or even give me an option to remove weird %s and give me more reflective of actual systems.

Oh, I totally agree that more needs to be done to make it truly polished. I think for me I was just surprised to really see some serious improvements. I think it's actually been a bit since I tried to purposely abuse the system. I was pleasantly surprised to see that a lot of the cheese we've been talking about has actually been fixed at least to some degree. It's encouraging.

I just finished EA for the first time, and it's really been a blast and a great adventure to see the Divinity engine tackle D&D.

The only things I think I'd improve fall into this thread's categories, though.

I do think the game immersion could be improved greatly if the AI would increase it's search area for paths to your location if it hasn't been able to find you for like 5-6 turns, though. Especially if attacked while out of combat. In the big Goblin Camp entrance fight, when I started the fight with all my characters on the tall pillar in the middle of the area, only one of like 12 MOBs managed to figure out how to get to me (go around and climb up the ladder on the right, which IMHO is farther than the vines up on the left, which no MOB used, probably because all my characters were over on the right), everything else just wandered around useless until I ranged them down over about 30 turns. This was probably because I entangled the one "mid height" ledge that some NPCs climbed up to in order to be able to be in range to me. I have noticed that NPCs will avoid bad surfaces, even if it means standing around waiting to get killed. I think they should expand their search area in these cases if they end up being useless for more than 5 turns.

What I noticed in the latest patch is that NPCs that you attack from very far away will be alert and looking for you. When I did this in the Nere battle area, the MOBs would shout "You can't do this forever!" and "I'll get you!" or something similar. Also, if you attack out of combat enough times it seemed to enter me into combat, even if my stealth was not broken. If it is indeed only when stealth is not broken that throws you into combat, I do think if your companions are in combat with the same MOB you attacked, it should force you to join that combat and not allow you to have unlimited out-of-combat attacks, which it does still seem to allow (I was able to do this in the Nere battle by attacking from the ramparts).

Also, perhaps this is intentional, but I did find it frustrating that when I sniped Nere from out of range on the gangplank, I will aggro the friendly nearby gnomes if I attack Nere enough times without entering combat, even if I don't actually target or hit any of the gnomes. However, if my stealth is broken and I enter combat with Nere, the gnomes seem to realize I'm not attacking them. But, if I attack 3-4 times out of combat and the game seems to "force" me into combat (it's possible this "force" is actually just failing a stealth roll), it will aggro the gnomes. Aggroing the gnomes I does make logical sense because they don't *know* I'm not targeting them and I am raining missiles down near them, but it's really annoying to aggro a friendly NPC that's part of a quest line without attacking them with no way to un-aggro them.

That's the other thing too, yes there are mechanics exploits, but there are also punishments, too. For example if you get "confused" status in the Myconid fight and attack a friendly NPC (in this case while confused I attacked Sovereign Spaw whom I was trying to save), they will aggro you. This can completely change the course of the game. I do really wish there was a way to un-aggro NPCs, like if you heal them and pay them money and pass a charisma check, it would take into consideration how much damage you've done, and give you the chance to un-aggro. I've now had this aggro issue twice, both of which prompted a save reload.

I didnt know of this, but im defo against this suggestion.
If people want to cheat, let them do so. Its their game, and their own experience they ruin.

It's not about letting people cheat because it's their own experience. It's about how difficult it is to NOT cheat, and how frustrating it can be when you play a round or 2 and suddenly realize only 1 character is locked in combat. The others are just sitting there. It's better than it was, but ultimately it can be quite hard to not take advantage of the frozen time, and you have to pay attention to who is actually in battle when battle is initiated.

Very ...

Dont blame the game for your own inattention.

Why not? When you play a turn-based game and the VAST majority of turn-based games pull an entire party into battle when just 1 character is pulled in, it takes a lot to retrain yourself to play Larian's special way. So, I can totally blame the game for not sticking with the norm that players of the genre are used to. By not sticking with the norm, in this case, it makes things more frustrating.

The game provides several indicators to see who is, or isnt in combat ...
If you "suddenly realize only 1 character is locked in combat", you were not paying atention, its not the game fault.

//Edit:
But i must admit you made me curious ...

Question:
What exactly do you watch when you dont realize "only 1 character is locked in combat"?
I mean ... wich part of screen do you focus on?

Upper side > there is turns order ... you can clearly see that somebody is missing ...
Left side > there is party UI ... you can clearly see that one of your companions dont have crossed swords icon on him ...
Bottom side > there is "End turn" and "flee combat" buttons ... it should be clear that you are fighting.
Right side > here is no indicator i gues ... but also nothing to look at. Unless you were "just studying your combat log" ...
Middle > i mean ... enemies all over? missing party members? ... If you dont notice here, i doubt you would notice anywhere.

It's not what I'm used to so I don't like it!

lol

I have to agree with Rag. Complaining that you have to pay attention to notice which party members are in the fight seems like a stretch.

I wouldnt be so harsh ... disliking something is okey, no matter the reason.

For example i extremely dislike new WoW UI in Dragonflight, and am seriously concidering quiting the game after 13 years bcs of that.
And that is also "It's not what I'm used to so I don't like it!"

But one thing is aclowledge what something is ... and dislike it for that reason ...
And something entirely different is blaming it for something you do yourself. :-/

I'll play, as part of team Absent Minded.

Noticing an absence from a crowd isn't trivial. Think of a school teacher. They can see everyone in their classroom but they still have to call out every name at the start of class to make sure no one's missing. The game is effectively asking that the player make a roll call at the beginning of every combat, under penalty of lost turns.

My issue here is that this is the only information provided by that side of the screen. There's no other reason to look there unless the player is actively thinking about who might have been left out of combat. If I thought to check, then great. If I didn't, then small icons that appear inconsistently on summons don't help a lot.

To be fair, the bottom side has a million buttons and icons, which like to move around and aren't clearly legible. That and the combat log usually get more of my attention than anything else.

None of this is inherently bad. Designers are expected to place obstacles between players and their goals. I feel it's useful feedback to let Larian know that making sure everyone is in combat requires some sort of active attention and proactive steps. This way they can decide whether that should be part of their game or whether they'd rather have their players' attention focused elsewhere.

The issue is that stealth and initiative (and shove, Hide, etc) are basic, core mechanics of D&D and BG3. If the only way to use them is through BG3's OP implementations (shove from stealth=100% success, heavily armored characters don't roll stealth checks unless they enter enemy line of sight, the game gives you 2 free surprise rounds, enemies often don't search for hidden characters), then I as a player, must either:
- (ab)use these mechanics and feel like I'm cheesing the game, or
- manually choose when to self sabotage myself to compensate for the OP abilities, or
- avoid that mechanic (and thus entire playstyles) entirely
If you don't want to use an OP mechanic, then neither of the other two remaining options is good or enjoyable gameplay.

Brilliant choice of profession.
I can asure you that if someone is missing in my class, i know.

It may come as surprise to you, but you learn those faces quite quickly ... sure, you may not know exactly who is missing at first sight, but that "someting is off here" feeling jumps in just after few days.
And that is exactly all you need in this case aswell.

This is not true tho ...
Sure, if you simply "walk into the fight" you loose your first turn, but if you enter combat by attacking its all benefits ... unless you notice too late, but as i said abowe that is on you, not game.

I would argue that main and certainly not the only purpose of that part of UI is to control wich characters will follow your controled unit, or wich unit you will control.

Since the only 2 ways to even have someone who didnt join the combat with rest of the party is curently to:
A) Separate him from the rest of the party ... therefore interact with this part of UI.
B) Contolling him and go to stealth with him specificaly ... therefore interact with this part of UI.

I feel like its existence is relevant ...
Sure, "teoreticaly" it is possible for player to either control absolutely everything through shortcuts and never even look that way, or stealth with whole party and have all but one discovered ... but pardon my skepticism, those sounds like too purposefully contructed options to take them under concideration. :-/

Didnt know about this ... never happened to me. O_o

Even more reason to pay atention to any changes isnt it?

Also you are talking about hotbar ...

Im talking about "enter turn based" wich becomes "end turn" button ... wich gets shiny blue outline representing your movement ... quite noticeable change in my opinion.
And "short/long rest" wich become "flee combat" button ... wich gets red instead of gold ... also quite significant change imho. :-/

Would that take enough atention to notice wich of your characters are fighting?

By the same logic its useful (also most likely just as useful) to let Larian know that some of us like it this way and dont want to click several "this character is not in combat, was that intentional y/n" before every encounter.

---

Wich it isnt. O_o

Yeah. The funny thing about humans is that they find it hard to adjust to something worse then what they are used to.

As I see it.

Negatives:
-potential for exploits, allowing character not in combat to move far further then they should be, and avoid enemies vision cones easier due to them being frozen in time
-unimmersive - with turn-based combat signifying multiple characters in an area engaging in a skirmish, it is jarring for some characters to not abide by the same rules
-hassle of checking who did, and didn't engage in combat
-adding multple characters to the encounter one by one feels bad to do - transition is bombasting and having the combat cue play out and having initiatinve UI rollout 4 times in a row, is just not a good experience

Benefit:
- In multiplayer you won't be pulled into combat by a coop player whom you don't have control over

And as I don't plan to play in multiplayer, and if I do it will be will folks I know, the benefit doesn't come anywhere close to making up for the nagatives.

I'm not even sure what's being talked about at this point.

Seems pretty easy to know if your characters are in combat or not. But maybe some people are better at some things than others. Shrug.

*

Anyway, just an aside, but I have to mention this:

"then" is the word that references something like: this happened and *then* that happened...

"than" is often the word folks are going for. It's for things like: this rather *than* that...

Very different words.

Sorry, just a pet peeve, and I keep seeing it repeated over and over again.

If it bothers you, don't do it.
If it makes things too easy, don't do it.

You can simply not return to stealth after a hit but you chose to.

So what you really are worried about is other people doing it.

Worry about yourself and don't do it. Simple.

And around and around we go.