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Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
The point of a sex scene, like any scene in a story, is to convey information to move the story forward in some way. They're meant to convey the advancement of the individuals involved. The problem in a roleplaying game is that we the players control one of the characters, which means that in a sex scene, there will inevitably be a lot of players who don't mind sex scenes in principle but will look at what eventually ends up in Baldur's Gate 3 and say 'that's not my character.' I think the explicit sex scenes in the Witcher work because Geralt is fundamentally a settled character. He can develop in some different directions but he's basically the same person in everyone's game. Our Tavs and Shepards can be wildly different, down to being different species in the former's case. Our Tavs can be nobles, entertainers, wizards and barbarians. Yet unless Larian is willing to get quite granular in a way that might not even be to the benefit of the sex scene overall, then they potentially can all have sex in the same way. So for a large section of the audience, regardless of the quality of the animation, those sex scenes will effectively take our character out of our control and have us just watch our character not really being our character for a while.

Quoting this to bring it to the fore again; poor choreography and porny scene direction aside, lack of pacing and bland expression and action aside... In a game where we are playing our own character, whose personality we decide on, if we have intimate scenes that are actually shown, we must have some leverage over how those scenes play out; some choices we can make to tell the game what our character is like or wants in this deeply personal moment - this really matters, for the scene to fly, and land, properly, even if we assume the other elements are all improved. In D:OS2, these scenes were conducted in prose, and we got to decide what out character wanted, and how how they wanted their personal encounter to play out; your character could tell your partner what they needed, and the player could tell the game how their character wanted to act, and while it was only a small impact on the prose that came out of it, it was impactful all the same, and it enhanced character immersion, rather than detracting from it.

Something similar here would be ideal - a way to at least partially indicate what sort of a scene our character would pursue. If we don't have that, and our character has a pre-scripted sexual encounter that runs like clockwork and does things that our character might not want or might not be into, etc., that's destructive for immersion and a time where character immersion should be a priority.

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The problem is, you want everyone to play the game without the option, and they want you to use the option to skip things. For a person who doesnt share your distaste, this is the equivalent of someone asking to remove a character creation face from the game because you don't like their appearance. You basically want to remove something you don't have to engage with, simply because you don't like it.

BG 1 and 2 were 20 years ago, created by totally different people, with a different demographic, goals, and crpg culture, There is no reason to expect the same thing.

As far as it being porn, people aren't necessarily wanting these things in the game for the same reason. For some this is the narrative fulfillment of a relationship/plotline. Its in there for the same reason other scenes are. Because its a visual medium that shows you a story.

You ask why? but for many the question is why not? Basically many people don't share your same perspective on this type of content in games.

that isn't to say you are the only one, some people in this thread agree with you, but its not the self evident truth you present it as. Its a subjective thing, so the devs can weigh your opinion, others opinions, their own, and decide how they want to handle it, but you aren't intrinsicly right

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Originally Posted by Niara
Originally Posted by Gray Ghost
The point of a sex scene, like any scene in a story, is to convey information to move the story forward in some way. They're meant to convey the advancement of the individuals involved. The problem in a roleplaying game is that we the players control one of the characters, which means that in a sex scene, there will inevitably be a lot of players who don't mind sex scenes in principle but will look at what eventually ends up in Baldur's Gate 3 and say 'that's not my character.' I think the explicit sex scenes in the Witcher work because Geralt is fundamentally a settled character. He can develop in some different directions but he's basically the same person in everyone's game. Our Tavs and Shepards can be wildly different, down to being different species in the former's case. Our Tavs can be nobles, entertainers, wizards and barbarians. Yet unless Larian is willing to get quite granular in a way that might not even be to the benefit of the sex scene overall, then they potentially can all have sex in the same way. So for a large section of the audience, regardless of the quality of the animation, those sex scenes will effectively take our character out of our control and have us just watch our character not really being our character for a while.

Quoting this to bring it to the fore again; poor choreography and porny scene direction aside, lack of pacing and bland expression and action aside... In a game where we are playing our own character, whose personality we decide on, if we have intimate scenes that are actually shown, we must have some leverage over how those scenes play out; some choices we can make to tell the game what our character is like or wants in this deeply personal moment - this really matters, for the scene to fly, and land, properly, even if we assume the other elements are all improved. In D:OS2, these scenes were conducted in prose, and we got to decide what out character wanted, and how how they wanted their personal encounter to play out; your character could tell your partner what they needed, and the player could tell the game how their character wanted to act, and while it was only a small impact on the prose that came out of it, it was impactful all the same, and it enhanced character immersion, rather than detracting from it.

Something similar here would be ideal - a way to at least partially indicate what sort of a scene our character would pursue. If we don't have that, and our character has a pre-scripted sexual encounter that runs like clockwork and does things that our character might not want or might not be into, etc., that's destructive for immersion and a time where character immersion should be a priority.

Yes, I thought about it and this is indeed the big reason why it would feels so awkward to me : the dissonance between how I see my character and how those scenes are depicted (based on the one scene with Minthara at least). Well put, you two!

For good mesure (because some of the answers feel weirdly disconnected) :
Originally Posted by MelivySilverRoot
The view on this goes beyond the first post and the circular discussion that has started afterward.
Nuances were brought up after the OP and in other duplicate threads.

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And here I thought you could simply choose to go to bed alone...yet we have 9 pages of...

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Originally Posted by RumRunner151
And here I thought you could simply choose to go to bed alone...yet we have 9 pages of...

Because some would like romance without sex scenes.

See, to me, sex is intimate between me and my wife. I don't want to share it with others nor others to share theirs with me. It just isn't right to me to watch others having sex, and I don't enjoy it. But, I'd like my characters to be able to be romantic with companions I feel they would get romantic with.

But I have to reject those companions in order to skip sex scenes. It's a bummer. I just wish they gave us the OPTION to not have to do this.

Originally Posted by professoryins
The problem is, you want everyone to play the game without the option, and they want you to use the option to skip things. For a person who doesnt share your distaste, this is the equivalent of someone asking to remove a character creation face from the game because you don't like their appearance. You basically want to remove something you don't have to engage with, simply because you don't like it.

Oh come on. There is a HUGE difference between having an option to turn off sex scenes and vulgarity and removing a face I don't like from Character Creation. HUGE difference.

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Originally Posted by RumRunner151
And here I thought you could simply choose to go to bed alone...yet we have 9 pages of...

This looks like one of the most productive discussions of this topic yet, so I would advise not to disdain it. People discuss art in general, immersion, and character development. So I was surprised by how constructive and reasonable people can be sometimes, especially in such controversial themes. So, welcome)

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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Eyebreaker
Um, I don't know about anyone else but if I'm masturbating then my door is closed and locked so this sort of thing doesn't happen.
And that is your answer ...
Lock the door so it dont happen. wink And you no longer need to wonder what are you supposed to say [the niece]. :P laugh

Originally Posted by Niara
In a game where we are playing our own character, whose personality we decide on, if we have intimate scenes that are actually shown, we must have some leverage over how those scenes play out; some choices we can make to tell the game what our character is like or wants in this deeply personal moment - this really matters, for the scene to fly, and land, properly, even if we assume the other elements are all improved.

Can this please be the last words in this absolute trainwreck of a thread?

Last edited by colinl8; 29/12/22 01:07 AM. Reason: add quote
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Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Eyebreaker
Um, I don't know about anyone else but if I'm masturbating then my door is closed and locked so this sort of thing doesn't happen.
And that is your answer ...
Lock the door so it dont happen. wink And you no longer need to wonder what are you supposed to say to her. :P laugh

My niece actually enjoys watching me or her dad play games from time to time. The fact that this game mostly doesn't have sex is the reason I leave my door open. That and so my cat has run of the apartment. Lol. So your answer is to just lock my door all the time because I spend, o much time playing (literally all day long)? Actually even all night as well sometimes.

The answer is always "inconveneice yourself" instead of just not wasting time and money with sensless pointless money wasting. In this case the pointless programming of someone wet dreams.
As for why I say it doesn't belong, I already said it but ok I will again, simply because the first 2 games didn't have it and I see Baldur's Gate as a non-sex needed game. That's it. Simple as that. That is just my opinion. Lots of you obviously feel diferently. That's your opinion and I'm ok with that. I seriously don't see why most of you have such a problem with me having my own opinion. I've said it, I think 3 other times now maybe only 2, I am fine with sex in other games. I don't see an actual point in cartoon porn at all but I realize that some people enjoy it. Fine. Ok. I simply feel it has no place in Baldur's Gate. Romance? Ok I can understand that. The sex? I seriously see no point. As for the "skip it and don't worry about it. You don't miss anything"? Kinda true. This particular part you actually do have to worry about it. Yes you can kinda skip it. But you do have to go through it with the dialog. Because you're dealing with a drow. A female drow. Everyone probably knows by now that if you don't deal with female drow properly they get very pissed off and then evil things are certain to happen. So if you want to find out what can happen if you go along with her so she do0esn't get to pissy, you have to click certain options that are indeed sexual in the dialog options. Your simple "skip it" is only partially an answer.

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Originally Posted by professoryins
BG 1 and 2 were 20 years ago, created by totally different people, with a different demographic, goals, and crpg culture, There is no reason to expect the same thing.

Which are actually some of the same devs that wanted to put more lgbt content in BG, Mass Effect, Dragon Age, and Kotor, but couldn't cuz they'd get greater push back as these romance scenes are getting.

I'll never get used to people going "gore, blood, guts, slavery, torture, are all ok and I'm ok with my child playing these video games and have fun" but oh NO sex. You let your niece watch your character pull out a living brain and kill someone? Replace your argument with violence.

"You ruined my role-playing game with violence. It's my PERSONAL OPINION that there should be no extreme gore like pulling out a brain from a human skull because Baldur's gate never did that."

I understand you don't want to experience the sex part of this game....so don't. You have every right to not want it and not everyone is comfortable with sex on the same level as gore, violence, etc.

But you went on a specific path, made specific choices to reach this specific scene, and said "no not for me and it's ruining my game"

Make a different choice. Shadowheart as a cute little date scene instead or don't romance anyone. Those choices are really satisfying. Having that sex scene with Minthara and making the right choices to get her to soften up was actually really satisfying. You also have choice in being the dom or the sub in that scene depending on some rolls so more roleplaying there.

Personally I think Larian will implement adult content filter. Hopefully

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Originally Posted by professoryins
I'm an artist, an artist is under no requirement to do anything. They teach people artistic techniques, and theories, the artists accepts, rejects or creates new techniques or theories as they see fit.

You are allowed to critique art, you can not like art. But the artist isnt required to accept, believe, or value your opinion.
What you describe is free will, and non-artists are also blessed with it. No one is required to take anyones feedback, especially mine.

So things I have learned so far:
1) BG3 is art
2) sex scenes in BG3 are art
3) Larian is an artist and is free to do whatever they see fit

But

4) art can be shit
5) artist can make bad art/be a bad artist

As Larian’s legal or moral rights to shaping BG3 as they see fit was never in question, as far as as can tell, BG3 status as art, and Larian status as artist is irrelevant.

And more importantly to me returning to the point that amused me so much to spawn this whole tangent:

Originally Posted by neprostoman
Edit: the way I see it, games are art. They are born from an idea and are shapen by people who invested in that idea. You don't teach other people how to and how not to do art.
If art can be shit and artist incompetent, that means making art is a skill and therefore it can be taught. Feedback can be wrong or it can be right. Decisions Larian made can be right or wrong. I am probably not a right person to teach anything, but that doesn’t mean that Larian couldn’t learn a few things. Hey they just learned, in spite of some naysayers on this forum, that reaction pop ups are good! Oh, poor artists, sacrificing their vision of the game for the sake of it being just a little bit better then before!

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I don't play D&D with people reduce every social interaction to "can i fuck it" and that's the energy that BG3 has. If your apex of intimacy is "sex" you've got a lot of maturing to do.

BG1/2 are art because their creators took an active approach to translating one medium to another, at PHD level investigations of translating the systems of D&D in to an interactive computer game. They broke boundaries, changed the way games were made, and stand the test of time in their affective narrative delivery, making them literal artistic classics.

BG3 does none of this. It's DOS2 with a Fearun skin. It pushes no boundaries except people's patience. The problem isn't with RTWP or Turn Based Combat, or homebrew rules or not ... the problem with BG3 is the shallowness of its expression. BG3 employs meme level representations of the characters and themes of the previous games, and for some reason, that's what Larian fans want, so that's what we're getting.

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Originally Posted by Eyebreaker
Originally Posted by RagnarokCzD
Originally Posted by Eyebreaker
Um, I don't know about anyone else but if I'm masturbating then my door is closed and locked so this sort of thing doesn't happen.
And that is your answer ...
Lock the door so it dont happen. wink And you no longer need to wonder what are you supposed to say to her. :P laugh

My niece actually enjoys watching me or her dad play games from time to time. The fact that this game mostly doesn't have sex is the reason I leave my door open. That and so my cat has run of the apartment. Lol. So your answer is to just lock my door all the time because I spend, o much time playing (literally all day long)? Actually even all night as well sometimes.

The answer is always "inconveneice yourself" instead of just not wasting time and money with sensless pointless money wasting. In this case the pointless programming of someone wet dreams.
As for why I say it doesn't belong, I already said it but ok I will again, simply because the first 2 games didn't have it and I see Baldur's Gate as a non-sex needed game. That's it. Simple as that. That is just my opinion. Lots of you obviously feel diferently. That's your opinion and I'm ok with that. I seriously don't see why most of you have such a problem with me having my own opinion. I've said it, I think 3 other times now maybe only 2, I am fine with sex in other games. I don't see an actual point in cartoon porn at all but I realize that some people enjoy it. Fine. Ok. I simply feel it has no place in Baldur's Gate. Romance? Ok I can understand that. The sex? I seriously see no point. As for the "skip it and don't worry about it. You don't miss anything"? Kinda true. This particular part you actually do have to worry about it. Yes you can kinda skip it. But you do have to go through it with the dialog. Because you're dealing with a drow. A female drow. Everyone probably knows by now that if you don't deal with female drow properly they get very pissed off and then evil things are certain to happen. So if you want to find out what can happen if you go along with her so she do0esn't get to pissy, you have to click certain options that are indeed sexual in the dialog options. Your simple "skip it" is only partially an answer.

Ok. Sorry. I would love some censor options, but this is too much, Man. The sex scenes are optional. They are not in your face. They don't just pop up like in some games. You have to literally agree to go to bed with someone to trigger them. If you are agreeing to sleep with Lae'zel and your niece walks in because you purposely chose to sleep with her, and your niece sees naughty bits, that's on you.

The most naughty creatures in the game that just spring up on you are Harpies. They are only half naked, and you mostly don't see them up close. The duergar are vulgar, but you can turn your volume down and turn off subtitles if your niece is in the area.

Again, I want censor options so we don't have to do this kind of stuff, but your arguments are a bit argumentative and unreasonable, imo. I don't know how else to say it.

To me, your argument is like a man going to a strip club and taking his niece with him and then getting mad because she is seeing poll dancing. You have to purposely choose to see naughty bits to see them in BG3. It is not by accident. If it was, I'd be right there with you in Larian's face saying "Please no. I won't be able to play this game again in good conscience."

The most argument we have is story elements mingled with naughty scenes and no non-sex romance unless it's with SH. That's about it.

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Originally Posted by pachanj
I don't play D&D with people reduce every social interaction to "can i fuck it" and that's the energy that BG3 has. If your apex of intimacy is "sex" you've got a lot of maturing to do.

BG1/2 are art because their creators took an active approach to translating one medium to another, at PHD level investigations of translating the systems of D&D in to an interactive computer game. They broke boundaries, changed the way games were made, and stand the test of time in their affective narrative delivery, making them literal artistic classics.

BG3 does none of this. It's DOS2 with a Fearun skin. It pushes no boundaries except people's patience. The problem isn't with RTWP or Turn Based Combat, or homebrew rules or not ... the problem with BG3 is the shallowness of its expression. BG3 employs meme level representations of the characters and themes of the previous games, and for some reason, that's what Larian fans want, so that's what we're getting.

A bit extreme. There are five characters thus far that you can have sex with. SH is non sexual. So Lae'zel, Gale, Wyll, Astarion and Minthara. Hardly a "can you _##$ it" situation. Yes, the romance is abrupt and shallow, but it's hardly just a sex fest game with this sex scenes stuff being the highlight of the game.

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Githyanki lay eggs - they don't give birth live like most mammals. Which means Githyanki have a Cloaca. A Cloaca is an orifice which is used by a bird or lizard for defecation, sex and egg laying.

So I'd pass on that Githyanki sex...lol...ewwwwwwwwww


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Originally Posted by Blackheifer
Githyanki lay eggs - they don't give birth live like most mammals. Which means Githyanki have a Cloaca. A Cloaca is an orifice which is used by a bird or lizard for defecation, sex and egg laying.

So I'd pass on that Githyanki sex...lol...ewwwwwwwwww

They also have tits, so maybe it isn't so straightforward.

This reminds me of all the conversations I had in grade school about what possible biological niches Pokemon could occupy exactly.

Or maybe Lae'zel is the world's sexiest platypus

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I'm all for adult content filter or fading to the black or whatever as long as I don't have to witness the cringy and awkward pixel sex. I'd love to romance the companions and have a developing romantic relationship just without the explicit game sex. So I would really appreciate some sort of option to fast forward the scene to the morning after, so to speak.

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Not sure i shall laugh or cry, why is it that leavng a trail of dead people, hacked up by weapons, burned to crisp by spells, is perfectly alright, and not controversial at all... but for some reason if nudity or sex is shown, its some horrific porn festival that should be banished and we should all be a shamed couse its perfectly a natural things and its part of the human thing to exist...

I might be a pagan skandinavian, but im just flabber gasted, isnt murder and killing worse then, something thats actually well natural ?... perspectives i guess

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Originally Posted by Aurora42
Not sure i shall laugh or cry, why is it that leavng a trail of dead people, hacked up by weapons, burned to crisp by spells, is perfectly alright, and not controversial at all...

Well, if that is your concern maybe you should start a new thread asking for a gore/violence filter. Nobody is stopping you from doing so.

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To be fair, i dont think either should be filtered, its a adult game, and such it has violence and sexual content, though from my personal preference, i see the violence as something more of a social issue then something natural as sexual content... i argue, a vast majority of humans will have sex in their life, and see nude things... but how many of us do actually kill multiple beings ?... Id even say most go entire lives and dont kill beings...

That being said, im not generally against filters for either for those that want that, but everything larian adds in this way, significantly adds more production time... imagine going through every scene, every text, every voice file, to "filter it"...

or you know, we can just accept its a game that have violence and sexual related stuff, like its said on the label...

Last edited by Aurora42; 29/12/22 05:31 AM.
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