Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Suggestions & Feedback More secret sub-classes

The idea of having a "secret" sub-class in itself is amazing. it's based on your decisions as a paladin, it changes your gameplay, it changes your character's story. For me it's a definition of player's agency, which larian values a lot. So it would be pretty unfair to have only an oathbreaker as a secret sub-class. Let me suggest some "secret" sub-classes for other classes and why we could obtain them.

1. Warlock. That's simple - Hexblade. It's my favourite sub-class in PnP, but it can be actually justified in BG3 plot-wise. Remember that we are going into a shadow curse area, which is definitely somehow connected to Shadowfell. And Shadowfell is a home for Raven queen, who's generally known as a patron for hexblades. Imagine how cool it would be if we could make a pact with Raven queen during some quest and eventually become a hexblade.
2. Sorcerer. Aberrant mind - also pretty simple choice, as you can become aberrant mind if your ceromorphosis gone wrong. And it is definitely our case. Maybe our tadpole will be influenced by our innate magic and we'll be able to use its power? It would be cool
3. Wizard. Chronourgy - It could be achieved through Gale's personal quest arc. Remeber that he wanted to go to the astral plane to extract the orb, because time doesn't flow there? But what if he learns how to manipulate time? And through this knowledge he'll solve his problems with the orb
4. Bard. College of Whispers - it's not a very confident choice, as we don't have a bard-companion or a strong lore stories for collegues. I just thought that college of whispers is an outsider among other colleges, so it we be a cool variant for an evil-bard playthrough?
5. Cleric. Twilight - it ties with Shadwoheart greatly. If she restores her memories and we learn that she was a salunite(for example), that opens a path for twilight cleric. She knows some dark teachings, but doesn't follow Shar anymore - great plot and a great reward for a personal shadowheart redemption arc
6. Druid. Circle of Spores - also not a strong choice, but i thought that shadow druids in the grove could be of circle of the spores. And maybe if we ask them politely they will teach us their ways
7. Ranger. Gloomstalker - i thought that maybe astarion could be a gloomstalker in the future. He's a vampire, he hunts in the dark, darkness is his natural environment, suits the gloomstalker archetype for me
8. Rogue. Phantom - beings from Shadowfell - shadar'kai - are phantoms. They are half-ghosts and can manipulate death in a way. Remember Necromancy of Thay? Phantoms actually connected with Thay empire lore-wise. Maybe if that quest with a book would be continued, we could become phantom eventually
9. Barbarian. Path of the Beast - there are rumors that we'll have a companion who can polymorph. And i thought to myself - what class suits polymorphs most? I think it's beast barbarians as they got their body transmormed while raging. So imagine if this companion could teach us to polymorph? Sounds great to me
10. Fighter. Psi-warrior - that's Laezel's story arc. Githyanki can manipulate psi energy in combat to add to their strength. Maybe if we find the Creche some kith'rak will be able to teach Laezel and us to be a psi-warrior?

11. Monk - ?. not really sure what to pick, as i don't really know anything about monks lore and we don't have the class in the game yet. So leave your suggestions in replies

Monk: Way of the Drunken Master, after you have nothing but booze for dinner for a couple of long rests in a row.

Legit though, waiting to play a half Orc barbarian liver master. All foods a left and the team must subsist only on booze! Those 40 food points start looking harder to come by, 😂

+1

It doesn't really do anything to your characters story, it is just a flavour thing. And regarding the Oath Breaker guy who you repent to? I wouldn't call that a gameplay change, he's just a merchant but instead of clicking on the item (revert oath) and pressing buy, you are just clicking a piece of dialogue.

It would be great if sub classes were actually more involved though.

great character concept)0

Is it? O_o

I mean ...

IF you wish to play Oathbreaker, you have to start as anything else ... effectively making your character mid-aged person, who lived his/hers whole live til now by some code ... and now just randomly decided to eviscerate first two tieflings who are harrasing hideous, sadistic, alien creature.
What is so amazing about that? O_o

Or if you dont wish to play Oathbreaker, you wish to play Devotion paladin, uphold justice, protect weak, help people, allways tell truth ... yada yada ... then you enter camp of sadistic, canibalistic, dwarf eating (possibly you own kin) monsters, who are "just not exactly hostile right now" ... but since you are here on quest to wipe them out, you wipe them out ...
Too bad, you just broke your oath. Wich one you ask? Nobody knows, nobody will tell you, you just did, deal with it.
What is so amazing about that? O_o

Nah ...
Sory, but big nope from me ... "hidden" or "secret" subclass can be fine, if we get some quest on wich end we would be able to either accept offered power and become something entirely else ... or deny it.
But as long as its decided for us based on some vague coding that dont really seem to have any written rules? Hard pass.

Just BTW ... i would suspect tadpole > illithid > true soul ... to be just that kind of quest and if every class would have ONE subclass prepared there, it would be fine by me.

i meant the general idea of secret quest based sub-class. oath breaking of course needs tweaking(for example at least a notification that this action will break your oath)

We probably can't expect a hidden subclass for all classes, but I wouldn't say no to a DLC area where it's possible to unlock them through one combined quest. Essentially another story area with the subclasses as a bonus.

As is, I would only want more in the default game for currently underpowered classes. I'm not a big fan of Larian neglecting some classes while playing favourites with others. This could level the playing field a little. Gloomstalker and Hexblade are especially thematically appropiate. Wizard could also use something to keep up with the 4 fireball/turn sorcerer.

As far as I can tell, Twilight cleric:
-- has 300 feet darkvision, which can be shared through using an action (one hour, once per long rest)
-- can boost initiative pre combat for one creature (1st level)
-- gets a moving sphere giving 1d6 bonus hitpoints /or/ ending Status effects like charmed or frightened (If you start your turn in it)
-- flight at level 6 (this is a BONUS ACTION, useable equal to your proficiency bonus. Restores with long rest)
-- Divine Strike at 8th level (+1d8 radiant damage on weapon attacks, 2d8 at level 14)
-- Twilight shroud (level 17) half cover at demand within the "Twilight sanctuary" sphere you previously unlocked

I would personally prefer the Shadow domain as listed here
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Shadow_Domain_(5e_Subclass)

kill that evil slut of a drow so she doesn't murder little kids = no that breaks your goody two shoes vow... wait what? o you just stand there and watch while Shadowheart guts the bitch... yes thats fine

Can we calm it with the slut-shaming of Minthara?! That’s the second time I’ve seen today!

There are all kinds of things wrong with her, of course, but her sexual appetites have nothing to do with them.

EDIT: Unless you’re commenting on her house-keeping or personal hygiene. I suppose the shattered sanctum didn’t look particularly well-kept or clean, and I didn’t see any bathing facilities .

I support more hidden subclasses.

To be honest, if there is a sub-class available in game, I'd rather be able to choose it at level-up. As opposed to search around the world to find it. Because if I wanted to try it out, I'd just find a walkthrough to point out the necessary steps to get it, instead of blindly bungling around the world map in search of it.

+1 yeah, I don’t mind one off stunt like that (though from what I understand current iteration leaves some to be desired), but having subclasses unlockable ingame doesn’t sound like best idea. Unless there is a good reason for it, I definitely would prefer for it to be available on level up.

Some for of prestige class would be another matter, but I don’t know if 5e has something of that sort.

Yes, funny as I find the drunken master idea, I think there is a very specific reason for the oathbreaker paladin being triggered by in-world events rather than chosen at level up, and done right (which it isn’t yet) this could work really well. But in general, I’d prefer subclasses to be available for picking at the appropriate level-up.

I agree about more subclasses ( especially the hexblade - warlocks need more love), but I also agree, that those classes should not be hidden, but there at levelup.
I guess the hidden class makes sense with the oathbreaker , but with other classes not necessarily so much.

Yeah i know ...

Question of course is how it would be done ...
The way it was done for Paladins is bad, not just bcs those triggers would need some tuning and warning sighn would be most welcomed ... but bcs the game decides for you and that is what i dislike ...

I mean ...
Even i must admit that if there would be warning signs telling me "Your deity/oath would not approve this kind of action, and there WILL be consequences ... are you SURE you want to proceed?", it would most likely be more acceptable, than it is now ... still, and feel free to disagree with me ... i simply dont have confidence in Larian writers team to nail this corectly.
My expectations, based on 2y of EA experience, countless of posts about missing dialogue choices, lack of meaninfull changes that would actualy give us more options to deal with situations ... and worse of all, changes that actualy takes away previously awiable option to deal with situations ...
This all combined, (and i would like to hope this skepticism from my side will be disolved first week after full release, where i find out that Larian actualy listened to us this whole time, just didnt include that changes to EA ... but im not sure i dare to hope) persuated me that they are forcing us to unconfortable situations where they dont provide us any good choice on purpose. :-/
And with that kind of DM, i just dont want their algoritm to decide whenever my character was following its archetype or not.

BUT!!!
(And this is a big butt, once aggain.)

Since you said "quest" ... that could be different cup of beer!
Bcs if our hidden subclass ... and i would definietly include Oathbreaker here ... would be obtained by receiving some quest, that would present us some morally grey story, that would potentialy affect (maybe even change) our worldview ...
And in its end WE (not the game, us, players) would either give in and accept this "new found power in this" ... or resist and "stick to the old ways" ... well, that would be awesome.

Let me give an example:
Forget breaking oath by killing / deceiving / stealing from / betraying any NPC ...
I would remove that entiely, since all is just matter of perspective ...

Quest for Oathbreaker should imho be initiated when you are helping Karlach / Fallen Paladins ...
Presuming you even talk to them ... if you just rush to that Tollhouse and kill everyone on sight, then i gues you just lost your "hidden subclass".

But if you get there ... talk to them ... get to know their story ...
You unlock another quest, where you get option to question your own Oath ... it can be either during dialogue with Anders ... or introspective dialogue where your character would talk to himself.
(just as Druids can question Ritual of Thorns and Kagha radical attitude ... no interaction required, just your character picking few choices, to clearly state for themselves their opinion on the matter)
And in the end of this ... you would be presented by choice ...
- You either admit that they did the right thing ... and you reject your Oath > therefore become Oathbreaker.
- Or you decide to denounce theyr decision ... and stick to your Oath > therefore nothing changes.

I even think this shouldnt have impact on Quest itself, you can disagree with their choices, keep walking entirely different path, and still help them ...
The point is, that i believe breaking your oath should allways be your (as a player) willing choice.

And just as i said abowe ... if we would be warned every time our oath would be broken, i gues it would be acceptable ...
acceptable as when kid that can "at least" write without mistakes his own name on test, that is whole blank otherwise, get to pass with 4- ... bcs teacher simply took pity on him.
But i simply dont honestly believe that Larian writers wouldnt get us to situation where our character would either be forced to do something that would go against his character ... or be forced to break his oath.
Most early (and often repeated) example ... is freeing Lae'zel ... where your Paladin either have to lie, or you are screwed.

//Edit:
OH!
And i also believe that all those "hidden" subclasses shouldnt be hidden at all.
We most certainly should be able to pick them by the time we create our character.

I mean, we create mid-aged characters, some of them look to be around their 30+/- ...
Any time during those years, we should be able to break our Oath (if we stick to Paladin example), bcs it simply feels more natural (from roleplay perspective) than breaking it in first few minutes of game. :-/

Aside from hidden subclasses, I would like there to be gameplay features (not necessarily subclasses) that require specific actions, decisions, characters, or roleplaying to obtain. In the realm of subclasses, I am reminded of becoming a Blood Mage in Dragon Age: Origins requires making a deal with a demon (which I've usually done as a mage... I just can't help myself). I know that spells, weapons, armor, and the like can be hidden throughout the world, but it would be cool if other abilities and gameplay features were strewn about as well, beyond just the character creator. Maybe a hidden deity or patron you can switch to as a cleric or warlock is hidden somewhere? Maybe you can become a cleric of the Absolute? Or cut a bigger deal with Raphael? Or maybe find a way to turn as a mindflayer while somehow retaining your mind/soul (maybe through a necromantic art?)? Then unlock worship of Ilsensine? Just having hidden build features throughout the story and world would be cool.