Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Time to STOP

Of course, but it is more then graphics U5 is better system performance for huge fights then UE4 and U5 can simulate Ray tracing effects without setting huge requirements even for FULL HD. Yes I do wait for that worlds they will create that is why I am interested in n different games with same U5 engine.

Why not just play those games? Larian has only made one game like that and it was Divinity 2, a decade and a half ago. Literally almost every modern RPG is closer to what you are describing...
-Bioware games (Dragon Age series, Mass Effect series, KOTOR)
-Bethesda games (The Elder Scrolls series, Fallout series, Starfield eventually, ESO)
-Obsidian games (The Outer Worlds, KOTOR 2, Avowed eventually, Outer Worlds 2 eventually)
-A bunch of Ubisoft games (Assassin's Creed games from Origins onward)
-Lately, Spiders games (Greedfall, Greedfall 2 eventually)
-Half of all JRPGs, including Square Enix games and Monolith Soft games (Many Final Fantasy titles and Xenoblade titles)
-Some Capcom Games (Dragon's Dogma, Dragon's Dogma 2 eventually).
-If you're cool without having a dialogue-based story, Elden Ring.
-Outward was a thing apparently.
The Open World real time action RPG genre is oversaturated. For the record, I would like an over-the-shoulder camera, but I think there's nothing to add with real time combat. Larian should stick with turn-based combat, as that is what they have revolutionized, what they are good at, and what sets them apart from much of the genre. There's nothing stopping WOTC from handing the license to another developer to make an open world real time party-based action RPG set in the Forgotten Realms.

That you left out the only game that even remotely comes close to what BG3 actually is is unforgivable.

The Temple of Elemental Evil

If you are looking for a turn-based game with complex D&D rules(2E), great voice acting, and solid tactical combat, with a compelling story then the game you want is Temple of Elemental Evil by Troika Games.

You can get it on GoG for $5.99

https://www.gog.com/en/game/the_temple_of_elemental_evil

There is a community that has been updating the game and patching it for 20 years. see below for those patches, they are really essential. There are actually two communities but the patches work together,

https://sorcerers.net/Games/ToEE/index_misc.php

https://co8.org/community/

I have played about 90% of the games listed above, certainly the big names (no, not Elden Ring) but look at those titles, they are decades old!
Dragons Dogma:Arisen - 2013, maybe we will get DD 2 in 2024/25
Dragon Age:Origins 2009, perhaps a new release of DA in 2024 (2023 id we are lucky)
Elder Scrolls/Skyrim same thing OLD GAMES with perhaps a new ES in 2024/25
No Fallout in sight, Starfiled will be the new FAllout
Masseffect, well, we did get the Legendary edition (remake of all 3 games)a few years ago (great games)

Point is, even though we have many great studios making these games, the games are far and few in between!
Why, I don't know, it seems that games take so much longer to produce even though we have far superior tools than what was available a decade ago, perhaps our expectations have grown to such levels that it takes a long time to produce a game on the other hand, long standing franchises that have not retrieved any follow ups, WHY, is it b/c studios are brain dead, no new ideas as to what to make the story about (which I suspect)

So, adding Larian to the mix of studios to make these RPG's would be a good thing. But even with that, DOS II came out in what 2017 and now six years later we are getting BG3!

MY life span has a limit!

So in the next 5 years (which is the amount of time it takes to develop a game of the size you are talking about), we can expect:
-Starfield and a New Elder Scrolls from Bethesda
-Avowed and Outer Worlds 2 from Obsidian
-Dragon's Dogma 2
-New Dragon Age AND New Mass Effect from Bioware
-SEVERAL new CD Projekt Red Games which are Open World RPGs (one of which MAY feature companions)
-Many new titles in the genre that you and I have never played.

If Larian were to start on an open world real time party rpg TOMORROW, we still wouldn't see it until 2027-2028 at the EARLIEST. And they would be competing with at least 8 (likely WAY more) games in the same space. Larian is going to have to make the case to the consumer (more than just you) that their game is worth playing over any other competitor. How? They don't have the same experience in open world generation as Bethesda. Their graphics don't compete with other massive studios. Their writing is good, but I wouldn't call it revolutionary. They don't do companions as well as past titles.

Don't get me wrong, hotmac. I love the kinds of games you are talking about too. In fact, they are my favorite kind of game, and I would like to see more of them. But I think asking LARIAN, which revolutionized turn-based 3D top-down CRPGs and permutation gameplay in the CRPG scene (where it was more of an immersive sim thing before), to be the one to drop everything and produce what everyone else is already producing is a mistake.

Also, the reason why the games are taking longer to develop is because of higher expectations. Everyone wants a bigger world, with more depth, and more characters, with more unique interactions, and greater environmental interactivity, and longer games, and more replayability, all with the most cutting edge graphics. And every time someone revolutionizes the game, the goal moves further and further away.

My God, a sacred relic from an age long ago.

Multiple characters combined with real-time-with-pause would not be as appealing today, it leads to you pausing so much that it might as well be turn based, which is not a problem in a game where you play as only one character (e.g. divine divinity).

Turn based is the reason why larian skyrocketed. Back when dragon commander or DIV2 was the latest game from larian, they weren't as liked as they are today. Divine Divinity and DIV2 were very good games but they didn't meet with the same success as DOS1 and DOS2.

Although part of the reason is that the combat in beyond divinity and dragon commander are games I would not recommend, and the combat in DIV2 is not amazing. Despite that, it's not a stretch to assume that larian will try their hand at real time combat in their next game (and not just in order to mix it up), since there is no reason to assume they are incapable of making a good real time combat system.

This right here is the most cogent defense for Larian continuing this project I've seen so far, and is absolutely a fair perspective.

Goddamn right. We need a "like" button for posts.

Absolutely not. Definitely not publicly visible likes in the sense of FB/Twatter. There is enough herd mentality as it is.

lmao we be resurrecting ancient forum arguments in this thread

100%. Larian at least makes interesting turn-based games, even if flawed in some respects, but I would definitely trust them with making turn-based games more than the action-based games that they have been on official record stating that they only made because of their publishers essentially forcing them to, back in the day. Game development shouldn't be a question of whether they should, it should be a question of whether they want to.

I feel like a lot of arguments for wanting BG3 to use a more action style is basically code for 'I already know there's a bunch of other action RPGs out there, I'm just mad the sequel to my specific franchise isn't one of them'. Not much different from all the tired arguments in the Final Fantasy community about FF moving away from turn-based games when there are plenty of turn-based RPGs out there (even by the same company, it feels like SE's most well-received games from their deluge last year were the turn-based tactical RPGs while the rest aside from their attempt at RTwP in Diofield seemingly fell flat on their faces critically), and the arguments there basically boil down to 'I'm just mad that there's no super high budget turn-based FF game'.

The only argument I'd consider valid for not wanting BG3 to be turn-based is for people that want it to be RTwP on principle of the previous two games being RTwP. But even then, I don't think Larian has ever made a RTwP game before.

BG3 is going to stay turn based combat basically because it is Dungeons Dragons 5.0 rules based on more or less.

That said to speed up combat some progress has made monsters act on same initiative etc. To this day I do not think the control system gameplay is best out there for BG3, but doable ok. Where BG3 shines is graphics, but even more so with videos and sound and music that combination. Well and slowly adding more Dungeons Dragons 5 elements and fixing bugs and creating Forgotten Realms World.
BG3 also supports multiplayer cooperative play up to maximum 4 players, but so does Solasta as well nowadays. While PoE and Pathfinder games supports only solo play.

When I said BG3 shines in graphics I was comparing vs DOS 2 (BG3 has better graphics then DOS2 and it is not exact same graphics as DOS 2 anymore), Solasta, Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder games. BG3 is not better graphics then the new KING Unreal 5 engine of course hehee.

This.

I just replayed the BG series co-op with a friend and my god is obnoxious. Two people managing 6 characters, 3 of whom have spells to cast, is hell. For every second of combat, there are 3 seconds of pausing.

There is another mega thread to advocate for RTwP or TB (I don't mind either in a single-player experience), but when playing a co-op game, nothing is better than the turn-based mode. I think games like Divinity: Original Sin 2 and Wastelands 3 proved it more than enough.

Absolutely. Tried playing BG and BG2 with my better half...couldn't do it. Just awful.

I get it, its old. It's like Fallout 1 and 2. At the time - they were amazing, and in my eyes they still are because in the context of the time they were and my memory re-experiences within that context.

However, I can't insist a 20-30 year old see it the way I did.

Shit, have you ever played Wasteland 1? That was back when EA was actually a good gaming company. Holy shit what a great game - in context - nothing like some hobo squeezins. Nothing like reducing your enemy to a fine-red mist - in text.

But today? Even the updated version would feel like a kind of work. Bleh.

Would be REALLY cool if Bg1 and 2 could be re-built under the Divinity Engine.

Are we still calling it the Divinity Engine? Has Larian renamed it yet?

Although I disagree vehemently with the OP on his crusade against the genre (especially when it comes to the extreme non-linear open-world trend which in reality too often boils down to quantity over quality), he's not without a point when it comes to flow of combat. A great many of the current issues is caused by Larian's early decision-making.

For instance, having a proper day/night-cycle with exhaustion and long-distance spotting of light-sources would lend the slow pace more credence. Camping, rather than be seen as an obtrusive mechanical limitation like running out of spell slots, would naturally weave the 5e system mechanics into the story-telling.

Another issue is Larian's design vision of making interactive systems. Worked fairly well in DOS2 (though I was never a fan), but less so when shackled on top of an already overly complex system such as 5e. You have an over-abundance and increasing amount of options that all somewhat slow combat down. Besides giving an impression of gameplay that lacks polish.

Simple streamlining is still largely absent. The dash animation wastes time as well as looks unimmersively magical. My favorite dead horse to flog is the Warlock Hex spell which easily could make the ability score debuff automated and thus remove an unnecessary timesink - which is the worst offender when it comes to slow flow of combat.



Divinity 4.0 is the current iteration I believe.

Coop sucked even in its prime - I tried playing it with a friend back in a day, and we just ended up running our own playthroughs side by side. It just wasn’t what that game did well.

I was totally referring to the co-op portion only for what it's worth. I am really enjoying to games themselves, when I have time to play them. Takes me back.

Ah! So that's was the weird thread we ended up talking about Elden Ring.

I can add myself to 33.9% of players who beat Malenia - and no mimic tear for me, though I had to ask google for help in finding a way to avoid two of her attacks - the swirly thing, and clone attack. I was just at a loss as to how I could even attempt not getting killed.

Outside those two attacks, I don't think she is particularly difficult - pretty in par with other FromSoftware end game optional bosses. Those two attacks, though, are nasty and difficult to figure out.