I'm not sure how many here read other gaming communities outside of this forum and the subreddit hugbox. I still follow a bunch of them as an old habit (if admittedly more and more sparsely across the years) and let me tell you, the reception for this trailer was mixed at best.
While a lot of people who are already familiar with Larian and the game tried to talk the game up (myself included, to an extent) I've noticed that a lot of people who weren't already on board had less than flattering things to say about how the game looked and the way it presented itself at a first impression. Case in point: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/bald...-ugliest-game-of-the-generation.1653345/
On one hand it would be easy to argue that "being a looker" is rarely the selling point of games in this genre and that BG3 is already a step ahead in terms of production value than a lot of other CRPGs of this type; on the other hand there's the problem of tonal mismatches that timebean is rightfully pointing in the reply above and that was highlighted several times during the two-years-and-counting of EA (somewhat realistic aesthetic of the character models paired with unnecessarily cartoony animations and effect, awful "cinematography" for a lot of the cutscenes, some of the characters and especially the "mute protagonist" overacting their physical reactions almost to a comical degree, "floaty" fall animation, the "Hulk stomp" on jump, the "supersayan dash", etc, etc.), which is a self-inflicted problem and ideally wouldn't have required a significantly larger budget to be addressed, only more self awareness about how some things came across to a neutral observer.
I noticed that barely weeks ago Larian was still hiring several people with a particular focus on cinematic directorial skills. Boy, I do hope they manage to find someone both skilled and able to do a lot of work quickly, because they are going to need it.
Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
While a lot of people who are already familiar with Larian and the game tried to talk the game up (myself included, to an extent) I've noticed that a lot of people who weren't already on board had less than flattering things to say about how the game looked and the way it presented itself at a first impression. Case in point: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/bald...-ugliest-game-of-the-generation.1653345/
On one hand it would be easy to argue that "being a looker" is rarely the selling point of games in this genre and that BG3 is already a step ahead in terms of production value than a lot of other CRPGs of this type; on the other hand there's the problem of tonal mismatches
One needs to start with pointing out that comparing BG3 to God of War, even old one, is idiotic. One is small scale, high fidelity action game, another is sprawling RPG.
That said the Game Awards trailer didn’t seem to impress wider public, and it did a far better job presenting BG3 as a blockbuster experience. Maybe oldschool extensive use of CGI trailers had some logic behind it: sell players on the experience you aim to provide, rather than show game itself.
But yeah, like many I have criticised lack of consistent artistic direction so much, it feels like beating a dead dog. The trailer seems like a very good presentation of how all over the place the game is. All I could think is God of War but mixed with super-Mario gameplay. You kinda, like recent SNL sketch. The awkward Bay-like companions forward walk, ridiculous shove and jump, the halting run… I really can’t parse out what is tone-deafness, and what is intentional piss taking.
One needs to start with pointing out that comparing BG3 to God of War, even old one, is idiotic. One is small scale, high fidelity action game, another is sprawling RPG. .
Which is a point that was indeed made several times in the thread I linked.
But in the end rationalizing it and justifying it doesn't really change the core of what the first reaction was: the game trailer failed to impress a certain audience.
Last edited by Tuco; 25/02/2312:25 PM.
Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
This is interesting. I'm hardly a gaming snob, but the lack of proper cinematic directorial skills can be found in many instances of early access.
It's not a dealbreaker for me. But, it might become a genuine point of fair criticism throughout the game. I've already complained that it's off-putting, especially for romances in the game. The current camp interaction style is very DA:O. I disliked it, this standing around. Unnatural on its own, over time, it leads to a lack of character for companion paths.
I /do/ yet have hope that it's just the trailer. However, the trailer touches a sore spot with me for "companions worth having". You mean these human-githyanki goblins who will kill each other unsupervised? Those guys? Lol
You would think that Larian would show their top A game 6 months from release in major events like Game Awards and Sony State of Play.
The fact that we still see janky animations and cutscenes is a bad indicator that this is what we will get in the final release. And they promised a "polished" game on 1.0.
You would think that Larian would show their top A game 6 months from release in major events like Game Awards and Sony State of Play.
Or one can hope they are investing in the game, rather than their marketing department. I honestly would rather not have inflated expectations before jumping into the game in August.
I would also think that the assets for the game would be done by now, and that they would want to show the best they had to offer.
Still, even in the new screenshots from steam, you can see plate +1 models, but still the same old metalli gloves and boots from EA. Like, mismatched armor everywhere. Are they going to fix that, like, ever?
They did say(to me actually through mail), that unreleased assets are still in development, and they told me the reason plate is not in act 1 of EA, but still...
Case in point. Armor looks and uniformity seem like an afterthought in the whole EA, and so far in trailers as well. It's getting me worried to be honest. The animations are a bit low frame and seem janky at times, and every time i see armor that is plate even in screenshots, it's gaps everywhere or misalignmets. For example, below, the metallic boots, not only do not match, they are just wrong, covering the lower part of the kneecap. They didn't have these problems with graphics and animation even in DOS2. What happened to them now? And for armor in an RPG based in D&D, this is basic stuff, why is it even an issue even in screenshots? Are they still developping the armors or is this the final thing, and it's gonna be a mess with different armor pieces?
It's no wonder some are claiming it doesn't look that good. But still, even if fidelity is average, you could win with artistic direction. But then you see the EA armor designs and wonder what is going on.
As for Simmons, his performance is fine, and he is convincing. It's great that he's a part of this. The writing... i'm not sure if i agree before i see the final thing and as a whole.
Then there is the dramatic Vaudevillian silliness of Irenicus. Great voice acting but really - so dramatic and over the top all the time. It is fun though, but Irenics - when he meets his end - is like scratching a self-righteous itch. No tears for Jon Irenicus. .
I’ve never played a video game that struck me as ‘great writing’. But while BG2 was full of nonsense, it had a nonchalant charm to it that BG3 simply doesn’t have. BG3 was made by 500 people, a whole-ass factory and a converyer belt – BG2 was made by a couple of dudes just having a laugh.
Apparently Irenicus was some kind of character these dudes used to roleplay at the ‘table’, so he had this massive history built up and they said, ‘hey, how about we put him in a video game’. At least from what I’ve read in the past.
It shows.
The voice actor was obviously brilliant, but it takes more than that. The lines weren’t Shakesphere but they had an earnestness to them, a lack of self-consciousness, that gave them the edge over BG2, which is just pandering to a certain ‘crowd’.
I’ve never come across a video game that met the subtlety of The Sopranos or The Wire in terms of lines or voice-acting, but BG2 is second best to any of the other garbage that we’ve had to endure.
As for Irenicus’s death scene – best I’ve ever seen in any video. In no way ‘melodramatic’. Just a cliff, some lava, and hissing demons. ‘To end like this!’
Very nice. Lowkey and horrible af. Actually felt sorry for the dude.
Badass as well that he managed to fuck one of them over the cliff before they piled on him.
BG3 trailer is all falsh by comparison. Glowing eyes, big-ass rays of light blasting from hands and so on.
Irenicus was great. The Tony Soprano of video games. And yeah, video games as I said don’t exactly attract the world’s greatest writerly genius, but BG2 had all the good stuff compared to the rest.
Edwin was funny. That thing that happened to him was hilarious – and would be completely unacceptable today. Minsc had great chemistry with the fairy girl. Haer’Dalis was cool. Viconia was proper hot.
Anyway, we’ll have all that again in a few years thanks to AI. We’ll have a lot of good things again soon, trust me on that.
Nothing gets my goat like folks making up stuff trying to bolster their point. BG2 was not created by "a couple of dudes just having a laugh". BG 1 took 90 man years to create. BG 2 had over 10 artists on the project alone. It was big business and big money and the interplay shareholders were eagerly anticipating it. Stop with the revisionist history bs just to make a point
I wonder at the premise underpinning this thread because I kind of agree, Simmons' voiced Kethric Thorm didn't come across as awe-inspiringly threatening.
Perhaps he's not supposed to be that kind of guy?
I'm thinking he's like an upgraded Kagha but with less doubt and harder to make do a 180 degree heel turn.
He's commanding 'Bow', probably a 4th level slot to affect all 4 party members. That's domineering and evil, but it's not killing anyone.
And is age and lengthy solitude supposed to have affected his character? Even a totally evil BBEG might change in part given a hundred years or so of solitude.
I just don't think he's anything like a gloating Sarevok drunk on his own power with a god-like mission at hand. Unlike him, Kethric is motivated by vengeance or twisted redemption, has known defeat, and has had power for a length of time. There could be a touch of nihilism about him too.
Nothing gets my goat like folks making up stuff trying to bolster their point. BG2 was not created by "a couple of dudes just having a laugh". BG 1 took 90 man years to create. BG 2 had over 10 artists on the project alone. It was big business and big money and the interplay shareholders were eagerly anticipating it. Stop with the revisionist history bs just to make a point
BG2 was indeed made by a couple of devs having a laugh.
That got your 'goat up' though? Really bud?
Doesn't take much obviously, then.
You obviously missed the 'point' though if that's what you're nitpicking. Maybe read what I wrote again and come up with something more intelligent if you're going to comment.
Edit: Just asked chatGPT how many devs made BG2 - apparently 60. Do you have a source that says otherwise?
Because 60 (in game dev terms) is, yeah, a couple of dudes having a laugh.
It wasn't even remotely the backbone of my argument, but hilarious how triggered you got about one little wee tiny small minuscule aspect of what I wrote.
And BG1 took 90 man years? What pot ya smoking bro
Watched the trailer on its release and just now to get a sense. There's a real lack of oomph to the trailer both in the overall voice acting and the music, neither really worked well within the trailer. The rest of the trailer is fairly meh, nothing impressive shown on the gameplay side nor any other characters.
I just grabbed the full credits for BG2:SoA, minus QA, voice actors, and marketing. Dumped them in an excel, deleted duplicates. It shows 127 developers. Why would anybody ask ChatGPT something like that and just assume they got the right answer? Humanity is doomed.
The 90 man years to create BG1 is a quote from BioWare founder Ray Muzyka.
It's my understanding that ChatGPT isn't very good with facts and figures.
If you want an example of a game given carte blanche, you don't have to look very far, the first Fallout was made by a skeleton crew, and probably was allowed to have so much character because of it. Of course the reason it had such a small stable probably had to do with it's cousin Baldur's Gate being the big break Interplay wanted.
It's my understanding that ChatGPT isn't very good with facts and figures.
ChatGPT, at least in its current form, isn't supposed to do anything more than being able to sustain a "conversation in natural language". It's not compelled to fact check, to be creative and original, to debunk inaccuracies from the person it's talking to.
Nothing of what it says can be taken at face value as "fact-checked" and you can easily prompt the AI to contradict itself in the span of few lines. For instance if you "scold" ChatGPT for saying something you don't like, it will apologize and say it was a mistake even when it just stated something factually correct.
Party control in Baldur's Gate 3 is a complete mess that begs to be addressed. SAY NO TO THE TOILET CHAIN
Nothing gets my goat like folks making up stuff trying to bolster their point. BG2 was not created by "a couple of dudes just having a laugh". BG 1 took 90 man years to create. BG 2 had over 10 artists on the project alone. It was big business and big money and the interplay shareholders were eagerly anticipating it. Stop with the revisionist history bs just to make a point
BG2 was indeed made by a couple of devs having a laugh.
That got your 'goat up' though? Really bud?
Doesn't take much obviously, then.
You obviously missed the 'point' though if that's what you're nitpicking. Maybe read what I wrote again and come up with something more intelligent if you're going to comment.
Edit: Just asked chatGPT how many devs made BG2 - apparently 60. Do you have a source that says otherwise?
Because 60 (in game dev terms) is, yeah, a couple of dudes having a laugh.
It wasn't even remotely the backbone of my argument, but hilarious how triggered you got about one little wee tiny small minuscule aspect of what I wrote.
And BG1 took 90 man years? What pot ya smoking bro
You know why it gets my goat? Intellectual laziness. You are entitled to your opinions you are not entitled to your facts: Development and release Baldur's Gate began development in 1995 by Canadian game developer BioWare, a company founded by Ray Muzyka, Greg Zeschuk, Trent Oster, his brother Brent, Zeschuk's cousin Marcel, and Augustine Yip.[17][18][19] The game was initially titled Forgotten Realms.[20] According to Muzyka, "our head programmer has actually read every one of the [Forgotten Realms] books - everything, every single one of the short stories and the paperbacks. He made a point of it. He really wanted to immerse himself".[20] The game required 90 man-years of development, which was spent simultaneously creating the game's content and the BioWare Infinity Engine.[1] The primary script engine for the game (used mainly as a debugging tool) was Lua.[21][22] DirectDraw was used for the graphics.[20] Wasteland was a major influence on Baldur's Gate, particularly its design philosophy of having more than one possible method to achieve each goal.[20]
I was an Interplay shareholder at the time mainly because i believed in Bioware. Yes not a financially sound decision but again you are entitled to your opinion not the fact of the matter.
Plus yeah read everything above.
So yeah it gets my goat because the intellectual laziness of the argument is emblemic of a significant societal problem in the United States of America, and that is something i care about.
We should be able to debate about facts, and even employ some hyperbole for rhetorical effect, without things turning bad-tempered or into a discussion of the ills of modern Western civilisation. That’s certainly not going to end well.
Thanks to everyone who has posted evidence of the facts of the matter we all now know what’s what, so let’s just move on.
"You may call it 'nonsense' if you like, but I've heard nonsense, compared with which that would be as sensible as a dictionary!"
"Alright I’ve been thinking…when Death gives you lemons, don’t make lemonade. Make Death take the lemons back. I don’t want your damn lemons! What am I supposed to do with these!? Demand to see Death’s manager! Make Death rue the day it thought it could give Ketheric Thorm lemons! Do you know who I am? I’m the man who’s gonna BURN your God down! With the LEMONS! I’m gonna have my engineers invent a COMBUSTIBLE LEMON that burns your God down!"
Last edited by Zerubbabel; 26/02/2302:32 PM.
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