Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - General Wizard / Bard multiclass?

Enhance ability has 6 variants for each ability score. Yes, you can cast in dialogue too. However, it lasts all day until concentration is dropped.

I use it in the druids' grove and helps me blast through most dialogues. A fair Cha14 helps, as does Guidance - make sure you don't choose same spellcaster for Enhance ability, or you'll lose the first one cast.

Bardic spellcasting grants a 1st level spell and 2x cantrips. Performer feat gives +1 Cha and musical instruments. It so happens that you get a feat for every 4 class levels, so Wiz12 has 3x feats, compared to Wiz11/Bard1 having only 2. That means the single classed can afford soft multiclassing feats better, which makes its own sense.

I did a run where Gale prepared Detect thoughts plus I had some extra scrolls handy. He could get through a lot of dialogues. Didn't test Fox's cunning, but that should work and if so, an Int character can blast through too.

Oh yeah, did that too with paladin MC with headband of intellect. With Gale preparing Detect thoughts, got best of both worlds. Problem was I had to remember to switch back to helmet for fights. Often forgot and took unnecessary critical hits.

In that same run, I picked carefully who was leading the party whenever we approached NPCs. Didn't have many issues with wrong companions talking, except for the odd surprise dialogue or ones where MC is scripted to talk.

First, I'd advise not to place too much "must have" importance on CHA checks, or any other single skill specialization in this game.
As benbaxter just pointed out, there are *so* many other ways of getting your way in conversations.

An "I'm missing out on xyz" approach in BG3 is really, really not advisable. BG3 is so overly complex and acknowledges so much that is personal choice that you basically miss like 90% of the game in one playthrough, even when you try to do literally everything.
I'd recommend you build the kind of character that you want, and focus on securing what you definitely *want* to experience in your first playthrough.

Key fact to also keep in mind: You can *always respec* if you find things don't work out for you as you hoped. You don't have to restart for any reason.

What you could first try, if you're mainly interested in playing a Wizard: Start with Wizard, and then as suggested by Freetheslaves, check out the "Magic Initiate: Bard" feat, with which you can pick up 2 Bard Cantrips + one Lv 1 Bard Spell, such as Cure Wounds or Healing Word. HOWEVER, normally (according to PHB) you can cast that only at Lv 1, and only once per long rest. You can't use your Wizard spell slots to cast it + upscale it. But I think it's possible that BG3 implemented it differently and just adds it as a spell to your spellbook (easier to implement I'd bet). Just test it out - if it doesn't work out the way you hoped, you can still respec + go for that Bard level.

Maybe but the charisma skills are by far the most common and reliable checks. A lot have other checks as well but those can be all over the place. The most common non-charisma is probably wisdom but that's mostly because of the tadpole and I don't know if it's a good idea to use that too much.

Charisma checks are by far the most common, sure there are other types of checks, I've even seen religion pop up once or twice but charisma is by far the most reliable way to have influence in most conversations. Wisdom checks are probably next but those are tadpole relates and I don't know if it's a good idea to lean into that too much.

The point is, that only means that if you *want* to play a generally social creature who can shmooze / threaten / lie their way into and out of almost all sorts of trouble, you *can* do so, but you're by no means *required* to play such a character to be able to get all sorts of interesting, useful and not to mention *unique* options in dialogue and respectively, non-combat resolutions.
BG3 is simply not as "simple" as many other C-RPGs where CHA checks are often your *only* option to solve things via conversation. Your race, class, subclass, background and also lots of non-CHA skills: all of these matter and can help you get your foot in the door.

Yeah you don't technically *have* to do it but it feels like too big a part of the game. Those checks will constantly be there even if you are bad at them so I feel like most people will probably want to take advantage of them at least some of the time. At least for the first 2 or 3 playthroughs I've got to have those because it feels like where a lot of reactivity comes from.

A better dip might be Knowledge Cleric or War Cleric. You'll get medium armour, guidance cantrip, healing word, plus great class features e.g.Expertise in Arcana and History.

I'd say just go full wizard. And take wyll for face checks.

I don't think that works...for one your companions are different people with their own personalities and opinions so they won't have same dialogue options like you, not to mention you can't speak through them during important story moments, and there will also be scenes where you don't have any companions like when speaking with people at camp. So no, I really wouldn't even attempt to try to make this work via companions at all...that will be very limited at best. No, it's far better to focus your main character on being the face and then if you want to play wizard that's what Gale or hirelings are for. Pretty much any other role in the party can be filled by companions but not the face...that has to be your character.

Yes, as mentioned: Just because those checks are there, doesn't mean the game requires anyone to attempt or pass them. A lot in the game is 'there', and a lot of it is 'big' - no matter what you do, you will "miss" the majority of the game in one playthrough.
I'd really not recommend telling players they should worry about it. I believe the best way to play this game is with a character that lines up with player's preferences, who can experience what players want them to experience.

The checks and your ability or lack thereof to pass them will make a significant difference in how fun your run ends up being. A lot more bad stuff you can't avoid, outcomes you can't influence etc...you lose a lot of control and a lot more will go badly. Those checks will make a huge difference in how un/able you are to drive the story to more favorable outcomes.

That's entirely a matter of preference, what "fun" means to the specific player. For many, it means playing exactly the kind of character they want be playing, and that can involve treating CHA as a dump stat, and therefore dealing with the fact that they won't be able convince everyone to play ball all the time.
This in turn means that not "losing control" as you put it, is optional. You're not *expected* by the game to stay in control of what characters around you do all the time. That's an advantage of playing such a persuasive character, not a "must-have". Passing CHA checks all the time ends up telling a story that features a particularly persuading / lying / intimidating protagonist who can manipulate even the most difficult and personalities around them - and that, while utterly fascinating in its own right, is just one power fantasy of many, and not necessarily what everyone is looking for in an RPG. And BG3 has not just something for everyone, it has lots and lots for everyone, with or without high CHA.

+1

I actually prefer to have a character that has vulnerability. Succeeding is fun, but so is failure, as it opens up another avenue. I don't *want* control, as rolling without the fear of it blowing up in your face is not exciting in the slightest.

Keep in mind, you don't have to pick skills that align with your ability scores. If you are a low skill class, use your background and race to make up the difference and pick up skills that fill in the gaps rather than buff up your already excellent ability related skills.

e.g. If you are going to play a wizard, maybe go with a Guild Artisan High elf to pick up Perception, Insight, and Persuasion. The proficiency bonuses (starting at +2) will make up the difference between a 10 and a 14 in the ability scores, and will only increase as you level up.

You'll still miss somw rolls, but it's either that or go a chaclas/save scum

You'll miss a ton more rolls when you don't have any charisma or proficiency on a large part of rolls and most of all rolls in crucial plot situations will be without any bonuses. By not being a face you are still making things exponentially more difficult for yourself. Having a companion try to fill the face role in this game is just not a very good or effective option. It is the only role that cannot really be filled by companions.

I would advise against this. Bard in general is a weaker class unless you fully commit to it or use another class that uses the same class Stat such as warlock. I can see why one might think this as sorc also uses charisma. Wizards completely do not work. I will in short explain what I did in my class guide on YouTube for sorcerer which I think you may have confused wizard with

1) bard is mostly a buffing class (many of its buffs are bonus actions). As a sorcerer you will often need those bonus actions. Likewise meta magic does not seem to work with bard buffs?

2) bard reactions tend to be sword / shield focused, conflicts with helish rebuke / spell stopping spells(main sorcerer reaction). One reaction / turn

3) Sorcerer fights with no armor, and uses Mage Armour, bard uses medium or light. You would not benefit from your gear.

4) bard does not benefit from draconic sorcerer bloodlines. (Main damage drive for sorcerer)

5) Bard's buffs are limited and barely better then cantrips that provide 1d4 to story checks. The tadpole and resting everywhere makes these buffs irrelevant.

6) bard healing is terrible, stack heroes and throw a potion at the ground for healing surface, better then a lvl 2-3 healing word.

Making the persuasion checks is not mandatory. If you really want to make them you can save scum, or just make sure they address Wyll instead of main character.

When I played as a druid, I was pleasantly surprised by how often there was a Wisdom alternative during conversation checks. I also chose the guild artisan background for its skills.

I completely forgot about the throw the healing pot, healing surface trick. Thank you! Honestly thought they would have changed that but of course surfaces dominate.


Completely agree with this.

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I think we're debating a few things here:

1) Is a pure wizard more powerful than a bard 1 / wizard? Yes.

2) Are there non-charisma dialogue options? Yes, many.

3) Is it easier to play a good aligned wizard if you have higher charisma and/or persuasion proficiency? This one I say yes. If the goal is to play the prototypical good guy hero, rather than neutral with mixed outcomes or evil murder hobo, at least in EA most of the dialogue options that result in a good aligned outcome are gated behind persuasion, deception, or intimidation which is charisma.

I think this thread has shown there are many ways to do this without dipping bard.

Given all the differing opinions in this thread and the many possible ways to achieve things in BG, I'm hopeful that the great thing about the game is player choice as Larian has been promoting.