Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Build Discussion Multiclass spells "clarification" from Larian via WCCFTech

An unnamed source from Larian answered WCCFTech, "When multiclassing, the levels of your classes and subclasses that normally have access to spell slots are added together in a weighted formula, and then the overall spellcasting level is used to determine how many and which levels of spell slots you will receive. Warlocks are an exception here in that they only get their fixed-level spell slots."

https://wccftech.com/baldurs-gate-3...racters-rule-changes-crossplay-and-more/

I don't know if WCCFTech is a reliable source or if they actually contacted Larian as stated in the article. First "official" clarification that I've seen. Guess we'll find out what it means in a few days.

It is not very clarifying.

It is somewhat clear that number of spell slots follow DnD rules, so that caster levels are added together, with slower progress for non-pure casters like arcane thief. I.e. cleric 3/wizard 3 is considered level 6 with regards to spell slots (have 4x1st, 3x2nd, 3x3rd), and cleric 3/arcane thief 3 is spell considered level 4 with regards to spell slots (have 4x1st, 3x2nd).

However, what spells can the cleric 3/wizard 3 prepare? Clearly they can prepare 1st and 2nd level cleric spells, but what about 3rd level cleric spells, since they have access to spell slot level 3?

And in case they can do so, it is actually a problem? Or does the action economy keep things in check?

We will get answers soon.

So they explained how D&D caster multiclassing works with spellcasters. Not how they changed it to give higher level spells known sooner, like the lead systems dev said earlier. Neat.

I don't trust Larian to understand why a Cleric 11 / Wizard 1 casting Disintegrate or any other Wizard spell is a horrible idea. How else would they change it?

Maybe add half the level of another full caster to determine spells known? Cleric 8 / Wizard 1 gets Fireball. Cleric 10 / Wizard 2 gets 6th level Cleric spells and 4th level Wizard spells. That's "sooner" but it would be more complicated than D&D and I don't see them doing more complicated. And even that would be very exploitative and make the best caster some weird Wizard / Cleric combo with a dip in the other. Or a 6/6 for 5th level spells from both lists.

So I think, better to not tamper with the system at all.

Doesn't appear to tell us anything new - that's how it works in PnP. It's not the slots which remain something of a mystery, it's spells known/prepared.

I am very much disappointed by lack of official communication by Larian on game mechanics. Are they going to release a User Manual or are we going to depend on unofficial wikis run by volunteers/third parties for high level class/subclass features?

I am sure they have everything documented internally (you can't have a project this size without documentation, even mods done by volunteers have extensive documentation), so I don't get the reasoning behind not publishing. All we have some interviews and Tiktok videos.

Last minute changes.

The internet can generate massive amounts of hate when something doesn't work the way it was "promised" so it's better not to promise anything.

Yeah that explains why they didn't release it a month ago. I don't see an excuse for today.

Also, I found the user manuals for DOS and DOS2:

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/373420/manuals/DOSEE_Manual.pdf?t=1589968419

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steam/apps/435150/manuals/DOS2_Game_Manual.pdf

DOS manual is pretty basic with no explanation of skills and spells, while DOS2 manual is a joke.

Game wasn't finished a month ago. Last minute crunch time is exactly when features get cut. Especially when you are trying to get something out ahead of the original schedule.

Its not a big deal, as long as you have the same number of spell slots... the cleric 11/wizard1 example is just a little better theurg, but its just marginally... the limiting factor is still spell slots, doesnt matter that you have a billion variations of spells, your still limited to how many you can cast... and it dosent make much of a diffrence heal wise or damage wise... as a level 1 cure wounds spell is dependent on character level, so even in pnp 5e that 11wizard / 1 cleric would get be able to cast more powerfull heals...

Secondly clerics by themself have plenty of spells that is more or less a "fireball", and in manycases they can have fire ball by taking the right domains...so as stated a 11cleric / 1wizard in larian can cast a fireball, so can a level 12 cleric of light domain... and even if they dont they have spells that more or less do the same, pillar of flame, blade barrier etc so fourth...

Sure it is nice and fun to have the flexibility of a Teurgh, but its far from as powefull as some think, since as stated, you wunt get more spell slots... and thats it at the core, there is far more powerfull multiclasses as they actually do get more attacks, more damage, etc...

The irony is, the 11Cleric / 1 wizard, loose out on one feat... and they have two main caster stats Int and Wiz...

I guess I wasn't clear. I agree with you about not releasing the documentation a month ago. That is totally valid point. I am complaining that they haven't released it when the release candidate of the game was ready.

Yes, it is a big deal. By PnP rules that character would be able to cast 6th level cleric spells and 1st level wizard spells. The suspicion is in BG3 that character would be able to cast 6th level wizard spells. That's a massive power boost over PnP.

There is no "Mystic Theurge" in 5e.

There is, devine soul sorcerer subclass, and the Teurgh exist in the unearthed...

So tell me, what is the diffrence of a cleric spell doing 10D6 damage or a wizard spell doing 10D6 damage ?, your bascially arguing that one circle is more round then anouther circle ;P... when you break down the spells in 5e it dosent matter that you can prepare or access more spells, in the grand scope o things, and most classes can do most things regardless, and with alittle tinkering you can access the spells you want with subclasses or through domains...

What matters ultimatly is A how many spells you can cast, B how hard those spells is to resist, and C how many spell effect a round you can create... the later one is a more serious deviation from 5e then having access to more spells, wich in cases is just minimal at best...

In my opinion, Divine Soul Sorcerer is limited in number of spells they can know. It is a sorcerer, you choose a few spells from a very extensive spell list, but then you are stuck with them.

Cleric/Wizard with access to all levels is the ultimate Swiss knife of casters. You can prepare any cleric/wizard you want. That is why it would be more broken if 1 level of wizard allows casting higher wizard spells.

None. But that is highly disengeous. High level spells do far more than 10d6 damage. And the Divine Soul can only know a miserly total of 13 spells at level 12. The aforementioned cleric/wizard can probably prepare more, from the complete bank of all cleric and all wizard spells in the game, and change them on a long rest.

Sounds like you have never played 5e...

What matters is having the right spells known/prepared. It doesn't matter how many fireballs you can cast if your enemies are immune to fire damage.

Wich every class already can, more or less... A druid can cast invisibility with right paths... A cleric can cast fireball with right domain... again your arguing wich circle is more round then the other... but yes its niceto have more options, and in some cases one spell might be alittle better then anouther... but its marginal... and if you cast a heal, its one less damage spell or counterspell...

And does it matter if you get resitance to something the druid way, or the cleric way, or the wizard way... i guess it is nice to have three round circles to do it, but their all round circles...

-"What matters ultimatly is A how many spells you can cast, B how hard those spells is to resist, and C how many spell effect a round you can create..." and as far as i know we wont get more spellslots...

That being said, multiclassing non-caster classes is in many cases far more optimal, as you actaully gain more actions, attacks, etc ...

Hmmm a mystery. I don't think offensive spells are the only reason here. I'm thinking mainly about the availability of Remove Curse and Greater Restoration. I'd be happy with level 20, but it was mentioned that it's so unbalanced op then, that having more spellslots or more accessible spells that are only available up to level 12 might be a good compromise. I mean offensive spells don't scale to level 20.... This is probably what Larian wanted to get around and enable otherwise? I would also be happy with just Greater Restoration Scrolls like in BG 2, but BG 2 had also Exhaustion...

im gussing we will be able to make alot of potions and elexiers through alchemy... from the glimpses we have it seem to give access to alot of really power full heal, restorative and effects... just a handy potion of speak with animals, would open up alot of dialogue

Unless you think 4 hp with no armour is as good as 5hp with heavy armour you've got to see that getting full access to the wizard spellbook is something you've got to pay for. A cleric 8 wizard 4 with 8 wis and int focus is just strictly better than a wizard 12 with the same stat spread, even if they never touch the cleric spellbook. There are a bunch of other best of both worlds you can get if spell advancement isn't slowed. Sorceror or Wizard? Why not a Sorwizard who has almost full access to metamagic while having a full sized wizard spellbook and no downsides? For the cost of a feat you can be a Clerwizeror who has almost full metamagic, full wizard spells, full cleric spells and heavy armour.

I'm not convinced this is what the game is doing yet, but maybe. We'll see in a couple days.

It does make me wonder if that's why the wizard was able to scribe cleric scrolls in earlier patches. Perhaps it was in as a test to see what would happen if the wizard suddenly had access to a bunch of cleric spells. I never found that to be overly powerful. As an above poster commented, you still have the same number of spell slots and have to make choices.

*

Still. I'm not convinced the game is doing this, largely because it seems to make some choices irrelevant.

I'm not too concerned about a wizard dipping one level into a cleric for access to a much larger spell list.

But what about a sorcerer that dips into a level of wizard to be able to scribe scrolls? Now the sorcerer has all the sorcerer benefits along with the versatility of the wizard, right? Meta magic and scribe scroll to get all the spells. That seems like an odd direction to me.

This would be a viable source, especially to get rid of conditions. HP regeneration is there enough, after all. But a potion that dispels curses, I still can not imagine that. I also still have a problem with the AOE effect of thrown potions, at least with puddles. If they were at least temporary healing vapors, or crafting was made so productive that you get multiple / stronger potions and their AOE effect is thus superfluous, so no longer present. On the other hand, if I'm petrified myself, then I can't use a potion myself, so we're back to AOE effects of potions or scrolls / spells...