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Originally Posted by VladimirYin
I believe most people are expressing their opinions regarding the game, we should focus more on substantive performance rather than playing word games.

What word games?

Originally Posted by VladimirYin
1.Incorporating a feature into the game that was supposed to be provided by unofficial mods and only requiring 100g as a cost, isn't this encouraging?

....."supposed to be provided by unofficial mods"....??????

Says who?

"Unofficial mods" also provide "unofficial bug patches" - should Larian also stop fixing those?

"Unofficial mods" also add content, or restore something that was cut (for whatever reason) - should that also be something developers stop doing?

"100 g as a cost" - so? Again, not encouraged or forced to use in any way. What does it matter how much it costs? The "issue" was that it exists, no?

Originally Posted by VladimirYin
2.Spending 400g to rebuild your team before battle essentially eliminates the challenge from all battles. If this is not considered cheating, then what would be? Is cheating in your concept limited to simply opening the game and instantly win?

Again with this example...who is doing it? And even then, why do you care?
Where is the instant win in that btw?
Do DC somehow get lower every time you respec?
Im being a parrot now with all these question, but I've yet to see a solid answer as to why is that "an insant win" and how is that every single players problem in this single player (with optional co-op) game?

Originally Posted by VladimirYin
3.I believe that most players who choose to play this role-playing game do care about immersion. Isn't it a fact that arbitrarily changing character settings leads to a loss of immersion?

Yes, and it's their playthrough, in their game, their immersion.

Your POV is that it leads to loss of immersion, their might be that it's the tadpole, or the Emperor, or Bhaal, or the gods, or whatever reason they give themselves.

How about that "4 halfling barbarians" video that went viral? Should we now nerf carrying capacity because no way a person who is 2.5 feet tall can carry so many smokepowder barrels, to blow up the entire Risen Road? Immersion and all...



I'm failing to see how this, which is bothering you and those who share your POV, is the problem of the entire playerbase and Larian?
If you cannot stop thinking about Withers being able to respec every companion, how is that a problem of the game, playerbase and devs?
If something that you do not have to, and clearly are not using, in a single player game, without PvP, any sort of impact from other players (unless in co-op, then thats your friends who you chose to play with) - how is that a problem?


Here's how I "cheated" with respec;

#1 I messed up when multiclassing so I respeced
#2 Messed up with picking feats at a level up, so I went to visit Withers again
#3 I respeced almost every companion to change their abilities the way I thought was better
#4 I respeced some companions classees, because it felt like that class was better than the original - i.e. made Astarion a Bard instead of Rogue

Did I break your immersion with all that? I certainly didn't break mine.

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I don't get this topic.

I finished the game on tactician, which I found very challenging many times throughout, and I used respec once on all characters to fine tune them, some got it twice because of errors (changed Minsc to Str ranger then to Str ranger/barbarian).

What great advantage is there to be had by respec'cing?

I can think of finding heat/acuity/sparks magic items and respec'cing a companion to be proficient with a synergizing set of 3. However, in 2 more hours of play you'll get some item that's flat out better than the set power.

Some multi-classes are noticeably powerful at certain specific levels before falling back down into the power curve. So, there's a bump here and there, but that's only 1 in 4 of your characters. Plus 20% power for 25% of the party. I suppose you can leverage that to be more than overall +5%, good for you! You've taken the time to learn a niche build, so there's a little reward - for a while.

I just don't see the great advantage for the time spent respec'cing. What am I missing?

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Just remove the respec feature entirely.

Teach players that decisions matter.

There's no reason to replay the game with a different class when a single character can just be every class and multi-class combo imaginable. Balance: Respec can be used for extreme power gaming with multi-classes that have a late payoff. Just change your build at every single level to be the most powerful it can be on that particular level.

If respec has to remain, it should be a one-time "reincarnation" of a character that would be explained in the game world. Paying pocket cash to change everything about your PC on a whim without any explanation is really stupid.

To the "if you don't like it, don't use it" crowd: it's part of the game. I do use game features and I did use it. I tried all kinds of builds because I could. And now my PC feels cheap and not at all unique. Because decisions are worthless and pointless in this game.

Last edited by 1varangian; 01/09/23 12:01 PM.
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Just don't use it if you don't like it. why does it matter if it does not affect you. New people need a crutch at times and old people like to play around with builds.

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Originally Posted by Painbringer71
Just don't use it if you don't like it. why does it matter if it does not affect you. New people need a crutch at times and old people like to play around with builds.

cause once players notice any decision of build could be undone, decisions become worthless no matter use it or not.
the point of role play is about you believe you are the character what build up by any decision you made. however, in this respec case, I can only believe myself as a Doppelganger

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Respec was one of the most asked for community features during Early Access because having companions locked to pre-set classes and traits would make the game stale really quick by not having any flexibility, not to mention hinder enjoyment of the game because the player wouldn't be able to shape their own party the way they want to.

It's not cheating, it's not exploiting, it does not need a nerf nor trivial usage obstruction just because someone has access to it and no self-control.

  • Should I ask Larian to remove the tadpole feature from the game just because it exists and I have access to it, but don't want to use it?
  • Should I ask Larian to remove the mercenaries as well because I can exploit them to knockout NPCs for XP and gain their unique loot without losing approval with my main character?
  • Should the community suffer because of my own lack of control regarding what I could do, but choose not to?

I think not.

Asking Larian to remove respec, nerf it or do anything against it would literally be going against a community feature so many have begged for, for a long time, for enjoyment purposes to breathe some life into the parties. I personally love that respec is available because one of the first things I did was respec both Lae'zel and Shadowheart to adjust their class slightly. Lae'zel because I don't want her to be locked to just two-handed weapon combat, and Shadowheart because I want her to be a Life Domain Cleric for roleplay reasons once she gets to a certain point in the story.


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Originally Posted by 1varangian
Just remove the respec feature entirely.

Teach players that decisions matter.

LOL

Because players, particularly of Larian games, have no clue that decisions matter....alrighty then....

Originally Posted by 1varangian
There's no reason to replay the game with a different class when a single character can just be every class and multi-class combo imaginable.

In your opinion and POV on the replay value of this game.

Originally Posted by 1varangian
Balance: Respec can be used for extreme power gaming with multi-classes that have a late payoff. Just change your build at every single level to be the most powerful it can be on that particular level.

Key part here - "can be used".
Not encouraged, not forced, not in anyones face. Can be. And people decide how they wanna play the single player game they're playing.


Originally Posted by 1varangian
To the "if you don't like it, don't use it" crowd: it's part of the game. I do use game features and I did use it. I tried all kinds of builds because I could. And now my PC feels cheap and not at all unique. Because decisions are worthless and pointless in this game.

So you used something that you were in no way obligated, forced or encouraged to use, now you feel that your character feels cheap and not at all unique....that decisions are pointless in this game and don't change the outcomes whatsoever....therefore every single other player, of this single player game, has to deal with a change (should Larian change this), because of how you feel about choices and your own playthrough....?

Yeah that makes perfect sense...

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Originally Posted by VladimirYin
cause once players notice any decision of build could be undone, decisions become worthless no matter use it or not.

To you and those sharing your POV. Not the entire playerbase, which would be affected by this change should Larian do it.

Originally Posted by VladimirYin
the point of role play is about you believe you are the character what build up by any decision you made. however, in this respec case, I can only believe myself as a Doppelganger

"I can only believe myself"

Again, your POV, your problem.

Yet you're asking devs to change it for every one of us, essentially forcing your POV of how this RPG should be played, what roleplay is in this case, and what our characters are.

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Originally Posted by VladimirYin
Originally Posted by Painbringer71
Just don't use it if you don't like it. why does it matter if it does not affect you. New people need a crutch at times and old people like to play around with builds.

cause once players notice any decision of build could be undone, decisions become worthless no matter use it or not.
the point of role play is about you believe you are the character what build up by any decision you made. however, in this respec case, I can only believe myself as a Doppelganger


How so?

As I said earlier I don't plan on respeccing. My decisions matter. Since I had to decide which subclass to pick and live with it. I think I made the right decision. If I didn't, oh well. I'm not going to respec. So again my decisions and choices matter.

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But decisions have mattered. Respeccing afterwards doesn't change those decisions, they're done.

Imagine all the care and attention required to figure out being a druid at a certain moment gets a reward, so you respec to druid, have said encounter and get a little power-up. Then you do the same for bard, and so on.

My gosh, the tedium of such skillful play deserves more than the paltry rewards you get. If anything, Withers should pay _you_ 100gp for time and effort. At the very least, you deserve the minor class rewards.

Not to mention the gear. You can't respec to bard at say level 5 without having gear set aside for that. A growing amount of your power comes increasingly from gear. You'll nead whole outfits of weapons, armour, rings and amulets ready and waiting for the respec.

Again, such a dedicated player deserves pay-off for such foresight. The rest of us are already in Act 3!

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Originally Posted by VladimirYin
cause once players notice any decision of build could be undone, decisions become worthless no matter use it or not.
More nonsense. How is a respec which makes the game more enjoyable a worthless decision? If I do not use respeccing, how does that make a decision about e.g. saving the Grove worthless?

Originally Posted by VladimirYin
the point of role play is about you believe you are the character what build up by any decision you made. however, in this respec case, I can only believe myself as a Doppelganger
The point of role play is that one can play a role that one wishes. You are not signing a legal contract. Do you feel that multiclassing should be outlawed? Do you think it is logical to just be able to add another, totally different, class to your character because you decide to? What about dipping into several classes for one or two levels just to get certain skills or abilities?

What about mods which fix things that Larian hasn't - are they allowed? I use mods including one to give Lae'zel, Shadowheart and Karlach the stats I would give a fighter, cleric or barbarian. I use mods to make things more in line with 5e. Does any of what I do had any impact on your game and the way you like to role-play?

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Originally Posted by FreeTheSlaves
I just don't see the great advantage for the time spent respec'cing. What am I missing?

That respeccing only takes a couple of minutes?

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Do not touch respec. It is an absolutely golden feature.


I don't want to think about why my eye is itching.
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Originally Posted by VladimirYin
I can only believe myself as a Doppelganger
Yet you would deny everyone else such a belief.

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I wouldn't call it an exploit.

It's an intended mechanic. Intended mechanics are not exploits.

If some no lifer really wants to respec for a 30 DC persuasion check, then so be it. Seems overkill to me though. That same person would save scum til they got it anyway.

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Yikes, looks like someone called the Fun Police...

There is absolutely no good reason to make respecs restrictive or punishing in a single player game that has such a massive variety of character builds.

The overall community should not lose a quality of life feature, or have it detrimentally changed, in order to appease a small subset of the community who lack the self-control to avoid using the feature in ways they consider to be advantageous. That is what we call a "personal problem".

If you don't like it, don't use it. It really is that simple.

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Originally Posted by Kelemvors gavel
Originally Posted by VladimirYin
cause once players notice any decision of build could be undone, decisions become worthless no matter use it or not.

To you and those sharing your POV. Not the entire playerbase, which would be affected by this change should Larian do it.

Originally Posted by VladimirYin
the point of role play is about you believe you are the character what build up by any decision you made. however, in this respec case, I can only believe myself as a Doppelganger

"I can only believe myself"

Again, your POV, your problem.

Yet you're asking devs to change it for every one of us, essentially forcing your POV of how this RPG should be played, what roleplay is in this case, and what our characters are.

Hahaha, thank you very much! I didn't realize my personal POV was such an important unignorable, and radiant point that brought many people are here discussing this topic. Just because it's MY POV, thanks indeed.

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You can argue until your face turns blue, but they're not going to remove a feature to satisfy section A of the player base that would anger section B, when section A has a workaround (abstain from using it). Best you might hope for is a hardcore mode (no saves, or respecs) in the distant future.

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Originally Posted by Holgrum
You can argue until your face turns blue, but they're not going to remove a feature to satisfy section A of the player base that would anger section B, when section A has a workaround (abstain from using it). Best you might hope for is a hardcore mode (no saves, or respecs) in the distant future.
I’d love a hardcore mode with definitive edition: Ironman, no respec, permadeath, RAW, no inspiration, PC death means game over.


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Like others I would have liked to see respec to be more expensive at least in tactician mode. On higher levels it's basically for free now. I too think a fee depending on the character level could have worked nicely.

I love the feature as such, you can save, try and play around with different builds and decide what works best. Also reinventing your character at a certain point seems fair, Withers has certainly the power to do so. But like for others, for me too it would be more meaningful and, yes, more fun if this powerful feature came at a higher cost.

Anyway, as people have embraced respec as a regular game mechanic by now, it can't be simply changed anymore. So I hope for more fine-grained difficulty settings / modes in the future that offer respec for a significant cost.


- You are one of us now. - Yes, I suppose I am.
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