Larian Studios Forums Baldur's Gate III Baldur's Gate III - Story & Character Discussion Obligatory Lae'zel & Githyanki complaints [Spoilers]

For me Lae'zel was the character that I connected and bonded with the most throughout the game, so I felt it necessary to bring my complaints about my experience here.

-After the duel with Lae'zel there's no option for a rematch.

I understand if that's supposed to be a part of her character development if she ultimately doesn't care about it anymore. But I find to many problems with it. I was a Fighter/Druid geared towards support so I wasn't specced into dueling compared to how I built Lae'zel, so I'm forced to accept the loss rather then see if I can improve and get better at least in the name of practice. She calls you the "source of her bruises" but we only ever fought that once, is the main connotation supposed to be for sex rather then two warrior lovers beating the shit out of each other?

-The duel itself is poorly optimized. If one of you go into camp with no health or spell slots it carries over to the duel. Both of you should get the effects of a full rest going into the fight. Then either you get another full rest for free or you have to live with the health and resource loss.

-Even after committing herself to Orpheus and renouncing Vlaakith, whenever you select her she still talks about Vlaakith. It would make more sense if she at least didn't say anything at all, it would be better if she talked about Orpheus, insulted Vlaakith, or talked about the freedom of the Githyanki in general.

-The ending for Lae'zel is very bittersweet as a non Gith player. It's either just letting Lae'zel go or have her stay. There's nothing about asking to want to go with them, even if they say no because the other Gith wouldn't be open to an outsider. But given that I've pretty much committed myself to Lae'zel and helping her people I would at least like to be there or help in some capacity. So my issue is that I can't convey my concern for them and any desire to help, they can say no all they want. It just personally contributed to ruining my immersion in the ending.

It especially hurts knowing that if Orpheus is dead, I'm asking Lae'zel to go die on her own. Maybe that makes having her stay be more rewarding, but it comes down to the lack of options again. Being a Gith means that you can at least leave with her so she isn't alone and can still commit to what she set herself to do. But that isn't available for non Gith. Vlaakith already has a canon death in 4e and neither Orpheus or Lae'zel are a part of it.

-Vlaakith's Wish. In D&D I've read that the spell isn't some all encompassing source of infinite power as if she's using a cheat engine. Wish is supposed to come with a give and take and the wording goes into how the spells executes. There's also a chance of her permanently losing her ability to cast it, there's no monkeys paw effect either.

Like saying "I wish you to end" just kills you, that's it. Which normally isn't a part of the normal set of established wishes and would be very demanding. It could have been something stupid where the adventure ended and we just left or were teleported to a farm, it would have even been funny if we watched Baldur's Gate get destroyed. It doesn't have to make sense since it's a wish. Having other outcomes where the wish cycles through 3-4 outcomes would VASTLY improve that encounter itself in my opinion even more.

-Voss is a nerd that is geared towards supporting Lae'zel and hardly acknowledges the player if they're a Gith, let alone a non Gith. Either path makes me a sidekick to the story around the Gith and Lae'zel.

I'm fine with taking the backseat as the player to watch a character develop, but I felt hardly ever acknowledged even though I have just as big of a part in their story. Are both sides trying to brainwash an emotionally vulnerable Lae'zel to their cause? How come I have hardly any say in the Gith story? When Vlaakith comes to talk about Orpheus she only really talks to Lae'zel. I can't tell her to fuck off and I'm going to be a pain in the ass for her after Lae'zel told her to fuck off because she was going to free Orpheus? Then when Voss comes to talk about Orpheus he only really talked to Lae'zel as if she was the only one that would contribute to the effort in our party. The only real interaction I had was deciding what to do with him after he said what he wanted to. Both interactions felt like they only served to push the story along rather then develop it.

The duel is more mating ritual than a combat prowess test. There is a dialogue option some time after this in which Lae'zel speaks of tenderness and the like.

I have two runs where I romanced her and got both outcomes, losing is legitimately better for her development.
So I understand that being the purpose of the duel. But at the same time Lae'zel was the only thing that gave any challenge that run. Which I immediately went to Withers and optimized my build more and got new gear.
Personally, because she comes from the Githyanki who value martial prowess it would make sense. Having her lover practice against her to improve their skills shouldn't be a completely alien idea, especially if they lost. Out of my two issues concerning the duel it's the lesser of the two as well, but it's still a complaint that I have.

+1!
Not sure about the romance aspects, especially the duel (I defeated Lae with my bard in a few turns lol. She even commented something about me "cheating" or not fighting honourably because I used invisibility lmao! Very in character for her) but I do subscribe to most of your points.
Especially the fact that playing as a gith should give us more reactivity from the NPCs and a LOT more options to shift the attention from Lae to ourselves or at least sharing the spotlight with her instead of becoming her sidekick.

As for the ending:

I defeated her with a half-elf bard and no magic used on my part though she used several of her fighter abilities. To be honest I didn't have a clue about what was going on. It seemed to have less to do with the githyanki and more to do with the fantasy of some Larian writer who couldn't punch his way out of a wet paper bag.

+1 to this. Actually +100 to this! This really drives me up the wall, because it really makes no sense and turns her into such a hypocrite! EEspecially considering that you can have Karlach take that step.

Otherwise i did make posts on this in the past, the whole game basically flat out ignores that you are playing a githyanki. It only recognises it in the smaller dialogues where you basically get the lines Lae'zel could use. However, as soon as you end up talking to anyone connected to the githyanki story, they all will automatically assume that you are a non-githyanki. Voss is the most annoying example of this (you as a gith sell your soul and the crown to Raphael and Voss will give his silver sword to Lae'zel as a thanks because... Why? Seriously, WTF?), but actually Vlaakith is the same (she sees both your gith and Lae'zel and will only talk to Lae'zel, offering her all sorts of promisses and yet completely ignore gith player completely? Like, why? ). The parts of the plot that really should take into consideration that you are a gith are all geared to be Lae'zel's story and you are just treated as her sidekick all the way to the end. It creates a narrative (likely unwittingly) where everyone connected to the githyanki kisses up to Lae'zel and just ignores githyanki Tav, making it out as if Lae'zel was such a special character amongst all the githyanki and has something going on with her that is not happening to Tav, and it really is not explained why! Why is she treated special? Because I don't think that was the message the story meant to send.

It makes me think that githyanki were never meant to be a custom playable place and were just put in last minute and were just given Lae'zels lines and otherwise ignored. It ruins the whole githyanki playing experience. Also makes Lae'zel into one of the most annoying Mary Sue character, when her character had so-so much potential and depth.

For this very reason, during the Early Access, I have always been a strong advocate for having few races, but with good writing that takes the context into account. Many people wanted Goliaths, Kobolds, etc., for personal whims, without thinking for a moment that it would have been impossible to implement these races narratively. In fact, the Githyanki Tav is disappointing. In my opinion, simply having Lae'zel as an Origin would have been enough.

+1

Hope they add more epilogue and option to go with her.

I definitely understand that romance is subjective, these are just my complaints that I wanted to bring. She's still my favorite going through everyone else.
However the duel itself still being a big complaint.
I accepted the loss with the first character that was with her, I just wasn't built towards dueling. But in the second run, Lae'zel went in with half health and I went in with one spell slot. I got initiative and Smite II just ended it immediately. It straight up didn't feel satisfying or earned.
Otherwise it's good to see that other people also feel like the Gith storyline could've been stronger, especially when playing as a Gith. It was excusable otherwise since it makes sense they won't take you as seriously.

That's also been something I've thought of. It not being an option is understandable since she's spent the entire game trying to get rid of the tadpole to not become Ghaik.
But at the same time she also wants to bring Orpheus so he can free the Githyanki from Vlaakith. The only other options are the player and Kharlach, which if Karlach isn't around then it's just you as the alternative and she leaves if you're romanced.

Hopefully it comes in an update where a very specific path needs to be taken for her to open up to it. Like in the situation where Karlach isn't present, you've steered her towards supporting Orpheus above her own freedom, and accepting the powers that come with the tadpoles, then a final speech check if she doesn't volunteer on her own.
Would add extra flavor if you can convince her to not kill herself in the end whether it being through talking her into finally being free as her duty is fulfilled or through romance and not wanting to be without her.