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Adraeus Offline OP
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Well, I finally took the plunge and purchased Beyond Divinity at its outrageous $50 DSRP price tag, and fortunately, I was able to return the game to the store. The store owner commented that all of his customers that purchased Beyond Divinity were returning their purchases as well. Why?

Starforce Purchase Prevention!

After doing some research, I found that Starforce, especially the latest version, causes many problems on NT/2000/XP systems including but not limited to constantly random reboots. These problems have pushed indie programmers to develop software that removes Starforce from a system completely. What's neat is that the removal software is called Starforce Cleaner, which enforces the view of the people in the disc storage and duplication industry that Starforce is like a computer virus.

While many active Larian forum members have not suffered the same issues, many Larian customers have, and like many of them, I've sworn never to buy any product that assumes I'm a criminal.

Unfortunately, I'll never be able to play Beyond Divinity unless Larian wises up and removes (or replaces) the Starforce Purchase Prevention scheme. I thought the game looked like a lot of fun from its screenshots... oh well...

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you know if starforce doesn't work with your system you can request a key thet skips the cd check by mailing to support@larian.com .

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I've sworn never to buy any product that assumes I'm a criminal.


You mean to tell me that a majority must suffer copy protections because a minority copies games.[sarcasm] OMG stop the presses that never happens in the world.[/sarcasm]. In the real world it's always the majority that pays for the actions of the few.

So when yougo into a bank that fims you. You won't be depositing money in that bank because it assumes your a criminal.


Not in the mood for cheese?
That excuse has more holes than a slice this fine Gorgombert!
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So when you go into a bank that films you. You won't be depositing money in that bank because it assumes your a criminal.


or even walk the streets....in some places. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />
or go to the store...
or get gas.....
or buy anything....anywhere.
might as well just get a cave somewhere, and wait for it all to be over. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cry.gif" alt="" />

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The store owner commented that[color:"yellow"] all [/color] of his customers that purchased Beyond Divinity were returning their purchases as well.


yeah sure...


Last edited by Jurak; 18/06/04 05:12 AM.

[color:"#33cc3"]Jurak'sRunDownShack!
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Or drive down the rode.



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road.......as in......which [color:"yellow"] road [/color] is this thread going to take? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />


[color:"#33cc3"]Jurak'sRunDownShack!
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a bad one?



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Adreaus, do you have a link to some of that information? I'm wondering if that's why it won't run on the laptop.

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Adraeus Offline OP
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Starforce can damage your computer
StarForce: Copy protection or scumware? - Installs hidden devices
I am not happy about this! (More links within)

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This would appear to be illegal, assuming these files are installed without user knowledge. It would qualify the copy protection, in my mind, as a virusmalware et al. Therefore the manufacturers of any gameCD or otherwise would be liable to prosecution under distribution of computer virus related laws.

I come to this conclusion since theres no telling what exactly these "drivers" might be doing in addition to validating a game installation, and preventing you from making a backup. They could be collecting data on your computing activities and sending them back to the company so they can inform the authorities of (what they consider to be) any inappropriate backing up of CDsDVDs. They could be monitoring the websites you visit. Who knows? We all know the power that can be contained in just a few K of code, having been through Sasser and other recent virus attacks, and this code is no exception.


Quote
From another game review...
Black Mirror uses a copy protection system provided by
StarForce. On Windows98SE, I encountered two severe
problems, both of them related to some device drivers that
were installed by the StarForce copy protection software:

Uninstalling the game does NOT remove the StarForce drivers;
this is completely unacceptable behaviour. I have complained
to Dreamcatcher and demanded that they provide me with
facilities to remove the drivers. Dreamcatcher has since
sent me a program called "sfclean.exe" that appears to remove
them.

The StarForce device drivers conflicted with the device
drivers for my USB memory drive, and caused my machine to
crash (BSOD) whenever I plugged in my memory drive. This
problem has not yet been resolved by Dreamcatcher.

Contact Dreamcatcher if you have uninstalled your game, and
find any of these files remaining on your disk: prosync1.vxd,
prosync1.sys, sfhlp01.sys, prohlp02.sys, prodrv06.sys


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star-force drivers need to be updated at every Windows Service Pack. They rely on undocumented features of the OS which are subject to change at any time.

Don't believe me?
http://www.3dgamers.com/news/more/1061548782/#details

From http://www.star-force.com/index.pht...gory=107&type=5 (i.e the FAQ)

This means the publisher needs to provide support for years to come for their star-force protected game. If they don't (which is what usually happens), then on the next ServicePack/windows update, your computer will throw a nice Blue screen of death at you, and you will not be able to play a game you paid for.

Also, search the forums of Club CD Freaks, Alcohol Software, CloneCD, etc. Providing links without coffee with no sleep is a lot of work...

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Well, I finally took the plunge and purchased Beyond Divinity at its outrageous $50 DSRP price tag, and fortunately, I was able to return the game to the store.

"outrageous"? This is the normal price for a new game.

Quote
The store owner commented that all of his customers that purchased Beyond Divinity were returning their purchases as well. Why?

Riiiight...

Alright, there already several threads about Starforce in almost every part of the forum.

I am not saying it's true, but it's if like everyone suddently decided that whining about DK's voice is getting old so they all decided to complain about Starforce instead...
Remember: last week there was none of those threads!

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guys, there is no reason to jump all over the poster - if what he's saying happened to him, that's all that truly matters.
is there exaggeration ("...all...")? probably, but that doesn't mean he's not frustrated.
remember when they went to patch (i think 1.42) and all those hours had to be replayed 'cause it introduced a bug??? i was pretty PO'ed too.
we've all (probably) had issues with a piece of software or hardware - it's not fun and definitely puts you into a bad mood.
morbo, thanks for posting the info about the cd key and larian's ability to help. that is the kind of info he needs.
we all know this is a very good game, but let's not jump down people's throat because they have objections - especially when they are legitimate. just look at all the people having crashes to desktop, memory not being released, etc. there ARE some issues here, so let's focus on the workarounds.
problems don't mean it's not a good game. but a good game doesn't mean there aren't problems. they can co-exist.
adraeus, take morbo's advice and contact larian. trust me, the game is worth the effort.

okay, rant over. thanks for listening.

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Actually if you read the links, Starforce was offering assistance. The poster was ignoring the offer of help. Seems like they should give Starforce the chance to fix the problem before complaining.


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I've sworn never to buy any product that assumes I'm a criminal.


That's why I don't smoke, don't drink alcohol ...


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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Adraeus Offline OP
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1. $50 for a game that uses potential spyware for copy-protection is outrageous.
2. There are no exaggerated claims in my initial message.
3. It's obvious why I'm "refusing" help. Read the title of the thread.

By the way, I expected people to jump all over me. That's okay. They're just defending a product they like and I completely understand that, but they need to research StarForce, and I've provided enough links to provide direction to thought.

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1. $50 for a game that uses potential spyware for copy-protection is outrageous.
2. There are no exaggerated claims in my initial message.
3. It's obvious why I'm "refusing" help. Read the title of the thread.

By the way, I expected people to jump all over me. That's okay. They're just defending a product they like and I completely understand that, but they need to research StarForce, and I've provided enough links to provide direction to thought.


You're right. They should never have released this in it's current state. Starfoce technical support running around all the forums offering to undo the damage they've cause, hardly makes up for it. But these people can do no wrong according to some... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />

It pretty much does what the Netsky (and variants) virus does, <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" />


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1. $50 for a game that uses potential spyware for copy-protection is outrageous.
2. There are no exaggerated claims in my initial message.
3. It's obvious why I'm "refusing" help. Read the title of the thread.

By the way, I expected people to jump all over me. That's okay. They're just defending a product they like and I completely understand that, but they need to research StarForce, and I've provided enough links to provide direction to thought.


Mate, I posted that article in the general forum. I know what I am talking about.
Yet, as I said earlier, you successfully returned the product so IMHO you have nothing to complain about.

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1. $50 for a game that uses potential spyware for copy-protection is outrageous.
----------
Oh, so $40 isn't?



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"Star-Force copy protection installs hidden drivers. The drivers can be shown when selecting 'hidden devices' in the device manager of Windows XP. Installed drivers are: 'Starforce Protection Enviroment Driver v5', 'Starforce Protection Helper Driver', 'Starforce Protection Helper Driver v2', 'Starforce Protection Synchronizer v1'. All these drivers are installed when you install a game that is Starforce protected. (A list of games can be found here)."

Fact is this is true, check it yourself.


To re-iterate what Adraeus quoted:

"I come to this conclusion since theres no telling what exactly these "drivers" might be doing in addition to validating a game installation, and preventing you from making a backup. They could be collecting data on your computing activities and sending them back to the company so they can inform the authorities of (what they consider to be) any inappropriate backing up of CDsDVDs. They could be monitoring the websites you visit. Who knows? We all know the power that can be contained in just a few K of code, having been through Sasser and other recent virus attacks, and this code is no exception."

Instead of bashing Adraeus just read the articles. You come into a thread and take shots at the poster, yet you dont even take the time to read through the links he is posting, thats pretty naive.

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Adraeus Offline OP
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Yet, as I said earlier, you successfully returned the product so IMHO you have nothing to complain about.

Incorrect. As a stakeholder, I am right to provide feedback.

By the way, do you understand that many people read reviews of products before they purchase them? They do, and Amazon.com is proof of that. Initially, I came to this community to see what it was all about and to read any reviews--good and bad. Generally, this is a good idea (unless it's a JoWooD forum). Providing feedback on a game or on any aspect of a game (e.g., Beyond Divinity's StarForce Purchase Prevention) is a consumer responsibility.

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I was *not* joking. Here in Germany the things are that people taking drugs are considered as criminals (at least from the side of politics and law), but on the other hand, although it is proved that alcohol is a kind of drug, too, they don't do anything. The Bavarian Oktoberfest is the best example for that. Although the dmage costs produced by people under the influence of alcohol goes into the millions !

And people who smoke tabacco are currently criminated as well : They are more & more considered as simple polluters making non-smokers ill. Criminals, in short, because the smoke is harming people (German term of law : "Körperverletzung"). I've seen non-smokers arguing that polluting smoke harms people in general as if someone would hurt people by will. So he is a criminal.

I won't drink alcohol (with the small exception of Bailey's), and won't smoke tabacco - but mainly simply because I don't like it. I could say that users of these "drugs" are to be consideredaas criminals, and as a consequence I could sop buy alcohol and tabacco because of this reason.

So, I could start a new thread called "Boy that was fun : Purchased and returned !" describing how I bought a bottle of beer and a cigarette und returned it later.



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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<mispost>

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