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lews has got exams and detantion for the rest of theyear.. he just told me

and faile... well, she's moving to seattle at hte end of this motnh, she just told me as well. so hopefully she'll have internet there


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It's sad to hear that Viper.

Hope your friend will see this thread, all these posts of your good old friends here.

She will read this and stop to listen to some backdoor gossips that try to blackmail good peeps. Bah! Disgusting.

Hope everything will be fine at the end <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kitty.gif" alt="" />


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yeah we miss or good ol piroite


It's one of these days...
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I'll argue the opposite side, because I think it needs to be said.

Viper is scum.

Now that is an odd thing to say, given that I don't know "viper" and I'm not involved in these back-side /non forum discussions that are playing a role here, but Viper has just given us all enough information to make this determination.

If someone here is being irresponsible, misunderstanding something terribly and telling people unfortunate or ugly rumors, or outright being malicious and evil, for Viper not to warn others and discuss what is happening openly allows this evil to fester and hurt others. In effect, since Viper claims to know factually that this wrong is happening (since it happened to Viper directly, so it's not "gossip" by addressing it), Viper is contributing to it, and we have to wonder, who is going to be hurt next by this/these people? How long is this going to keep happening because Viper won't take action to stop it, and tragically in this case, it seems to be as simple as admitting who the players are and honestly discussing it.

For a lack of honesty Viper is prepared to have other people here, even Viper "itself", hurt in the future in similar ways because someone here is misbehaving but won't ever be called to task? The makes Viper complicit in this persons evil (and granted I am assuming the Viper is in the right in qualifying someone else that way, and that it's not just a complex series of misunderstandings which in themselves could be lanced in the same way) and the next person to be hurt by such behavior will have Viper to thank, because the community hasn't been warned about the real snake in our midst - people like Viper, who encourage evil, even if they themselves do not perpetrate it directly.


So while Viper is scum, I appreciate that Viper at least has warned me that Viper "itself" isn't to be trusted.

Thanks Viper
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />


-If I were a lemming, I think I would push the lemming in front of me off a cliff, because hey, what's funnier than a falling lemming?
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I'll argue the opposite side, because I think it needs to be said.

Viper is scum.

Now that is an odd thing to say, given that I don't know "viper" and I'm not involved in these back-side /non forum discussions that are playing a role here, but Viper has just given us all enough information to make this determination.

If someone here is being irresponsible, misunderstanding something terribly and telling people unfortunate or ugly rumors, or outright being malicious and evil, for Viper not to warn others and discuss what is happening openly allows this evil to fester and hurt others. In effect, since Viper claims to know factually that this wrong is happening (since it happened to Viper directly, so it's not "gossip" by addressing it), Viper is contributing to it, and we have to wonder, who is going to be hurt next by this/these people? How long is this going to keep happening because Viper won't take action to stop it, and tragically in this case, it seems to be as simple as admitting who the players are and honestly discussing it.

For a lack of honesty Viper is prepared to have other people here, even Viper "itself", hurt in the future in similar ways because someone here is misbehaving but won't ever be called to task? The makes Viper complicit in this persons evil (and granted I am assuming the Viper is in the right in qualifying someone else that way, and that it's not just a complex series of misunderstandings which in themselves could be lanced in the same way) and the next person to be hurt by such behavior will have Viper to thank, because the community hasn't been warned about the real snake in our midst - people like Viper, who encourage evil, even if they themselves do not perpetrate it directly.


So while Viper is scum, I appreciate that Viper at least has warned me that Viper "itself" isn't to be trusted.

Thanks Viper
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />


um...yeah dude...be careful...id watch my knees if i were you, mind you this is coming from one of the most mellow people on the forum...just a friendly warning

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... originally posted by lowkey (or whatever)


man you're stupid... seriously you are. You're not here long enough to know me so do SHUT UP and you don't know what you're talking about.

anyway, My contact has taken up contact with me again, and if you like I can tell you the name of the fuck_ing ass_hole.

thing is, that lots of people contacted me about this and that they have problems with the same damn person. Also some of them are willing to go public and confront this ass_ with it. SO i'm just waiting for them right now really.


@lowkey... if you'd known me a bit better (i'm here more than 4-5 years now) you'd know better than to take ME on.


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Please Viper, you know better. Some things are better left ignored, you've always been a good friendly guy, no need to ruin all that now. Beeing new doesn't mean ignorant, no-one here has the right to call anyone scum. especially not over facts like these that are unclear to most.

Lowkey, you should be carefull what you say, this is a direct attack to Viper. If his methods are wrong it may be mentioned, but you shouldn't call ppl scum, or evil...


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In effect, since Viper claims to know factually that this wrong is happening (since it happened to Viper directly, so it's not "gossip" by addressing it), Viper is contributing to it, and we have to wonder, who is going to be hurt next by this/these people? How long is this going to keep happening because Viper won't take action to stop it, and tragically in this case, it seems to be as simple as admitting who the players are and honestly discussing it.

@ Lowkey

How do you know that Viper did not take action to stop these gossips ?
You can't judge someone without knowing all the facts.

Barta

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I think this will all be left behind us, if Lowkey could just send an apology to Viper? Not in public, but through PM perhaps? It's enough that one person is ruining the atmosphere here on the forum, we cannot use another one.
I like Viper and I hope the truth will come out very soon.
Hang in there, Viper!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />



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Viper is scum.


I am worse :

I am [color:"red"]Rebel Scum.[/color]


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
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Viper is scum.


I am worse :

I am Rebel Scum.

I am an Insane Rebel Scum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/XmasJump.gif" alt="" />

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Viper is scum.


I am worse :

I am Rebel Scum.

I am an Insane Rebel Scum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/XmasJump.gif" alt="" />


I am lord of the insane rebel scums, the one scum that rules them all.


It's one of these days...
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I will apologize about the length but I wanted to respond directly to the last few posts before continuing with part 2 of my post. Some responses were so candid and open that they deserve the respect an answer shows.

Nero - Your overprotectiveness doesn't do you credit given the sig you are using - a hostile encultured reaction to a perceived insult to a friend tells me you need to work on your deconstruction. You would be more supportive by mailing Viper in private and gossiping about what a jerk I am in suggesting that Viper maybe isn't so great after Viper went to trouble to establish a pat-on-the-back thread in a public forum where another interpretation, and, horror and shock, a potential discussion might take place.

Viper - Does it hurt when it touches a nerve? Quite a reaction, and I think great misunderstanding, of my post. Though I do appreciate and respect that you seemed to show emotion directly, immediately, and honestly - I also hope for a more thoughtful reaction later. On an unrelated note - you don't know how long I've been a member here or what names I'm using, but it isn't relevant, as personally I don't measure someone's worth by their post count (or their knowledge of the forum and it's members given that, after all, it's recorded and available for past reading). Another -1 prestige points for you.

Draghermosran - I wasn't attacking "Viper", this post will explain what I meant in a bit more detail, I think. As my post clearly stated up front, I don't enough information to directly condemn Viper, therefore I must have intended something else, hmm? And it would be unfair and counterproductive, though a bit entertaining <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> , to drag this out longer than the requisite knee jerk reactions, and perhaps see who might be afraid of a public airing and resolution of these mysterious and sad events.

Barta - Thank you, a thoughtful response and, at first glance, a reasonable question, however, we never know "all" of the facts, only those we are provided and then we settle upon as sufficient to justify or require a response. Viper provided us with enough information to warrant a discussion, as a conceptual case, at least.

Galadriel - Great Lady of the Elves, when you traveled to the west I wept, but I would not apologize to Melkor nor Sauron, but call them to task were they, or a single orc, to permit any harm to what remained of your golden wood. Evil exists because good people do nothing, a simple saying, and yet it contains some truth. You of all people, by your namesake, should know this.

And with respect to dealing with it privately...I was not the one who created a public post complaining about how I was being deliberately mistreated by someone, and then appeared to be taking no action to end the situation while protecting others, which would require a public discussion and community resolution - and warning.

Alrik~ - I do not speak German, to my shame, but I know the quote you sign with by Einstein - cheers.

================================================
Secrets and Lies

It is really quite exhausting, for those that really care, to see these whining posts keep cropping up, as though many here are determined not to learn from history. Mystery person x gossipped and lied, but I will keep it a secret, so that it can continue with others, and it can fester... (sue me, I like the word "fester")

How many times do we have to see posts about people being hurt, even leaving, and we are told that there was some unpleasantness, gossips, lies about people, there was bad behavior... And many of you lament this repeatedly, and I do not here intend to criticize or minimize your feelings of loss, but to claim concern about these things and lay claim to a community has started, nay, past, begun ringing hollow.

Delicious Irony

A website by a company whose products revolve largely around simple good and evil themes, populated by people who repeatedly conceal things they describe as deliberate lies and harmful gossip campaigns. Many of you remind me of the villagers in Divine Divinity, you suspected things, or knew things about Doctor, I think the name was Elrath?, but rather than act to work together...you know, community?, you keep your secrets and protect the lies and the plague kills members, driving them away. The villagers will stand around clucking like chickens and hope someone else actually resolves the situation, or just hope and pray it goes away, give the rats long enough, they will eat away the moldy hay.

But it's not your problem is it? Some of you only appreciate concepts of honor, honesty, openness, and community in a game, it seems.

So my question, as I stated in my first post, because I don't know Viper, but because this issue, in general, is a pretty constant theme here, is how many of you can claim to admire or respect, conceptually, Larian's products, while given a chance to, okay it's a bit dramatic, fight evil in your own lives, to expose wrongdoing (or correct mistakes and misunderstandings), to set things right - instead you have a love fest for a self admitted concealer of evil. In my experience, ok, I'm 3 days old, but it's all relative, problems exist in the world because ordinary people, you and me, create and maintain them.


From a generic perspective, I think it's a valid question, certainly there are specific cases of this gossiping/hurting/leaving situation where the criticism wouldn't apply - but then, I'm not the one whose angry now, just curious about how you all justify these conflicting attitudes and behavior.

Viper can obviously be mature enough to not treat me like a fragile doll, and respond in a direct and honest emotional way, an admirable trait - but can some of you look at your own behavior over these years and say that you could have prevented problems and did nothing instead, that you have nothing to learn from what I am suggesting, nothing to think about at least? If another 5 or 10 pleasant members are driven away, will that change your mind, or will it take an invasion of poland, because the other countries didn't count?

Disclaimer - if you are all under the age of 13 and my questions, comments, and approach are simply more than you deal with, then I should apologize, though I will not, as I did not, contrary to the opinion of some, intend to harm anyone, but trying to lance a festering boil in any community is going to generate some bad feeling. You are welcome to hate me and attack away, I'll give you my address and real name should you desire to shoot me, because my sense of self preservation is a very small price if you would stop this bloody whining and address these problems, these few bad eggs that seem to poison the community here, and we can get on with waiting impatiently for Larian's next product and the damn patch.


-If I were a lemming, I think I would push the lemming in front of me off a cliff, because hey, what's funnier than a falling lemming?
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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />...errrr, I'll get me coat.


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Wazzat?

I know lowkey from another forum, and he was alright there. Though I will admit he had several discions there that made me mad, and a tad angry, but I kept it to myself. If he has a problem with Viper though, he can just leave for all I care.




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@ Al -> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ROFL.gif" alt="" /> u're very amazing with that post! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

@ everyone -> before we go down to funky town & have Lowkey on disco inferno, let's examine & re-examine his words. he means well though poorly worded (but that's just my [nocando]- i mean opinion!) to make it seem scathing, though the caustic effect may be what he intends to achieve (for what purpose? to wake the mind up to certain facts?).

what i think, & i may be wrong here so help me somebody, Lowkey is saying that when Viper talked of the gossip/backstab that happens here, he has open an avenue to take this baddie out in the open & deal with him/her. but Viper did not, & that makes him one of the baddie for not finishing what he has started & also making more & more people speculate as to whom this baddie is, thus rumour begets rumour. correct me if i'm wrong, Lowkey, as i am trying to understand your words & to put them in simpler forms for myself & others to understand.

@ Lowkey, well thanks for turning the other side of the linen into the open. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

i appreciate your gesture though it's a bit too much (like a slap in the face of a victim). maybe that is your intent? or maybe u want to make people realise about their lack of action in this? why must action be of utmost emphasis when INaction can be as effective? must aggressive undertaking be the only avenue when passive resolute can be as good a path to take?

as for those who reminisce(spelling?) on the past, thinking of their past friends, why is it whining when it may be just us missing them thus stating it in the open? i miss some online buddies because they are good people who are no longer here. i don't make connection of that emotion to the ongoing gossip & somehow blame a baddie for making my friends go away. but i am speaking for myself of course.

a friend is a friend. what he or she does behind my back which i do not know is not something i would spend time thinking about, speculating what may be there & not there. therefore giving my support to Viper or whichever friend when it comes to this isn't really a love fest for a self admitted concealer of evil. as far as i know, he does no harm to me nor to people that i know. if his action has potential to hurt, & when i know, i may advise but i will not tell him what to do & pass judgement on him. i am & never will be good enough to do so.

we all deal with things, situations, people in our own way. i deal with rumours, falling out of friends, backstab in my own way. if it's less righteous to u, if it's cowardly compared to your courage, if it's insidious compared to your openess, if it's sitting on hands compared to your uplifting morals - geez, dude, sorry to disappoint u but i am who i am & u are who u are. u live up to your principle & i to mine. but please, other than turning the linen, don't choke us with it.

but thank u nevertheless for making such a daring point in this. it's something i haven't thought of & yet it's not something i agree to. i'll act when i find it necessary & prudent but not because action is the only way.

life's too short & beautiful to linger upon little freckles like rumours & backstabbing. it is always inevitable that we will get hurt. that we can't change. but we can change ourselves. so let's move on & live on. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/exclamation.gif" alt="" />WARNINGS
1. One of the dreaded long kiya posts - those with a short attention span... don't read <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
2. Not going to be a nice post, because I am going to name names!
3. Viper, I'm high-jacking your thread for the...

HISTORY OF GOSSIP - by kiya

Old forum: I joined there - Setharmon joined after me. I liked one gamer very much, a French one, called Jove. He tracked down my help posts faithfully (I mix up east/west). Setharmon disliked him, we had discussions about that on chat lvl. Well, one of the spam waves came - I left the forum silently. A few weeks later I returned and read to my horror that Setharmon had insinuated I had left because of the last posts Jove wrote. I was shocked. I apologized in public to Jove and wrote him a mail. Jove believed me, but didn't return. From that day on, I knew => DON'T TRUST SETHARMON. I have the CD of the old forum and can prove this ongoing. I blocked my chat account and blocked one of my mail addresses.

New forum - 2003: I kept distance to Setharmon - and started to keep copies of PM I sent/received. Not all, but those I considered important for my own security. Yes... this is what gossip does - causes distrust. I was engaged heavily in the first spam waves here, caused trouble - and maybe you remember, Viper: wiht you amongst others <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - next spam wave came. I had learned a lesson that spam belongs to a forum like the tide. Setharmon wanted me to engage in yet another wave. I refused. And as I refused to let him manipulate me into this, it eventually lead to one of the few chat threads I initiated:

Request for honesty and openness

Needless to say, I never got a response if I manipulate people or not. Several possibilities => no one said it and Setharmon was up on his tricks again to divide and rule. The persons didn't want to talk to me about it. this incident increased my distrust.

And here you pop in, Viper, dealt with you being a spammer - let me refresh your memory <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - you asked me via PM if the bad stuff I had said about you was true. Original words were from Setharmon. I clarified by sending you my PM, so you could make your own picture. We both found out => the old trickster was playing his pranks again. Spreading rumours, wanting to pull strings and thus gain power. You and I were at peace again. I thanked my lucky stars about keeping copies. You had been a spammer, but my opinion was that of the past, you had changed during the time.

A bit later.... I watch the forum closely, so I saw there was something cooking up. There was a wall between a female member and myself. I kept silent. Female Member A contacted me and told me to inform Female member B about my XP with Setharmon. I was wary at first, because I didn't want to get involved. Member B contacted me - well... to cut this long tale short, he had spread the rumour he had to back me off because I wanted more than friendship, tsktsk. I was disgusted - very digusted, felt the old dirt again. She had believed him, trusted him, gave him personal information about herself - and now she was hurt. Giving female member B mails and PM info, she learned that he is not trustworthy. Female member A had already made her XP with Setharmon herself, but she is a strong female, she had listened to her inner self - female member B... was vulnerable and hurt.

Time passed on... Setharmon seemed to lose interest in the forum. I could breathe again. No one to prowl upon females here, not that I knew of. No one to trick and manipulate females, tell bad stories about (male) members to tickle his ego and pull strings.

How many females I know of? 6.

Time passed on - I left the forum last year (2004) because of vacation and job project. In January 2005 I saw to my horror that he had come back. And by reading some posts I got the strong impression that he was up to his old tricks again. I kept away - was easy, as my personal life was very busy at that time and now I play WoW <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> . NO, I didn't want to be informed again if I would return - I didn't want to comfort a broken heart again or be confronted with his manipulations or maybe even lies he once spread about me or others, or having to clarify over and over again - I didn't want my PM box to grow large again with copies. I didn't want to feel the poison of distrust rising in my heart - not knowing whom I can trust about discretion or not. I detest manipulators, people who seek power and do a lot to strengthen their own ego.

And... Lynn had given him the helper title. A title holding credit for new members. No, I didn't want to be involved again. And now? I was informed by another female - was asked for help again. I thought about it, was still wary. Yes, distrust was rising again - raised its ugly head. And then I read your post, Viper. And I've had enough now - therefore I name, therefore I inform.

Readers, it's your choice to believe me or not. It's your choice to think everything is a big misunderstanding. come to your own opinion.

Female members, I write my XP for you - make your own choice, be careful, decide whom you want to trust or not. We are a minority here on the internet in general - and there are some male prowlers. They feed upon your vulnerability, your yearning to trust, they give you what you might lack: attention. Not all, most are very nice and supported me during the dark time here on this forum. BUT! this goes for both genders => NEVER take second hand gossip for granted! NEVER! Confront the person - and if the name isn't given to you => ASK, prod, investigate. Gossip can only grow in the darkness, it gains power by silence and retreat. Don't give in - don't.

Don't forget - create a female network - we have to protect each other. We are sensitive and vulnerable at times, let's use a quality a lot of females have => solidarity. don't remain silent and retreat for the sake of peace and friendly atmosphere. Speak up! Stand up for yourself!
Kiya

My post might cause grief and anger - I don't care. I don't consider myself an active member here anymore. But I still feel for females who get hurt or might keep away from this forum because they are filled with distrust, because they are kept away from other members by gossip, insinuations and rumours. So, the old shepherd dog is growling again <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


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Viper - Does it hurt when it touches a nerve? Quite a reaction, and I think great misunderstanding, of my post. Though I do appreciate and respect that you seemed to show emotion directly, immediately, and honestly - I also hope for a more thoughtful reaction later. On an unrelated note - you don't know how long I've been a member here or what names I'm using, but it isn't relevant, as personally I don't measure someone's worth by their post count (or their knowledge of the forum and it's members given that, after all, it's recorded and available for past reading). Another -1 prestige points for you.


it doesn't hurt, but you just don't have the right to attack me personally and esp. not like that since I haven't even heard about you/seen you in here.

and about your
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On an unrelated note - you don't know how long I've been a member here or what names I'm using

that's sad... this just shows that you are SO immature that you can't even hold an identity and come out with it. imho you ARE setharmon.

for now on, I'm just gonna ignora whatever it is you have to say about me. I can't stand you, never will. I've got a wife, am happily married so what do I care about this virtual environment. just don't get personal if you don't know me.


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Good! At last, a public forum, where discussions happen openly! Facts and names need to be thrown on the table!

I have read all of it, and no action can be taken right now: I am waiting for the public reaction of Setharmon and who else is involved in this matter.

And another thing I wanted to say: I am working for Larian Studios in the first place for its games, not to solve problems between people, problems that mainly grow behind the screens. But I can't let nobody ruine the forum community either...

Thanks,
Lynn

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Thanks Lynn for your wise reaction.
I am going to quote you because you forgot to say this :

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Discussions are normal in life and having different opinions too. It's up to you to keep it polite.


Barta

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