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I hope that Viper's friend will be back soon.


thanks.. and she's back alright.


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thanks.. and she's back alright.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/XmasJump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/XmasJump.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/XmasJump.gif" alt="" />

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Yes!!!

Victory <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
and as my lady mage in NWN would say: "This calls for a celebration" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/XmasJump.gif" alt="" />


Mea Culpa's Demesne Note; artwork for Avatar courtesy of NWN and CEP Old Elven Saying: "Never say Never if you're gonna live forever!!!" "I didn't do it, it wasn't my fault"
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I'm wondering how much of this gossip that is been talked about actually did happen and how much is merely made up to provoke certain things.

Hey person D "person A, Person B is silly and needs to be more serious..." isn't something I would cass as harmfull gossip, I would class it as idiotic and irrelevant comments.

Tho person E:" Hey Person B, person person A and person C say you are silly and need to be more serious" seems odd, my anwser would be if I were person B, Yeah SO WHAT? what ere you trying to tell me. It does seem as an attempt to stirr up comotion.

So to make things clear wouldn't it better for everyone that a been involved in gossip like this to come clean? to iluminate the exact situation? If You can't be honest on something that is still very anonymous like a forum... If you fear you could lose friends by coming clean you don't deserve them.

Either everyone drops it, or everyone comes clean, doesn't seem to any other sollution to me. I'm sure i'm outside the whole issue hope you don't mind me buggering in. I just want to see the forum go back to the peacefull thing it used to be, a long time ago. Maybe then we would see some more old friends coming back.


It's one of these days...
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After i read all the post from a outstanding position i think i have to say something.

First
Thank you Kiya and Galadriel for this outcoming. This is what i mean with my post in the Forum News thread.
Second
Lynn, i think it is not necessary to close a thread like this. We can say, thats life. And things like this will happen again and then? Close the next thread like this one? Maybe the Members will think it is better if they do not throw the facts on the table becouse is it like a punishment if a thread is closed. Sure, you dont mean it in a way like this <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> But like you said, you cannot solve the problems of the people here. So, i think, it is a good start to let the Member try to solve the problems in a active and open way like the Posts from Kiya and Galadirel.
Third
Why from a outstanding Position.
I dont have many good friends in the english part of the forum, and nobody have try to start gossip with me. So i was really surprised if i hear the problems. Like Lynx said, in the german part we dont have these problems. And in the german Part i have some good friends so i think that i will know it if there is such things start. But i can say, i want to know who and what is (if <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> ) gossiping about me. I think it is a false care not to say these things, i want to know who i can thrust and who not.
Sure, maybe its someone who i like, and maybe its hurts. But what is better, to think i have a friend, or to know i have a friend?
I can only say again. If, and i dont care who, someone try to start gossip with me over other Member i will do it like Kiya and bring it on the table. This is, even if its hurts, the best thing a friend can do.

So, after all, i think this Thread has turnd in a good way i never had expected. And this is the only reason for me to post here.


Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
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I read this Thread since him existed and have to say following in addition, if I do the nearer acquaintance with somebody in this forum, find out the only people which I really trust. If this friendship should go for which reasons also always *I asks there always after *, catches fire go, then I resign myself to it. This is like in the real life, one meets and separates.
There are with us Germans a saying: "Talking badly from you, if it is permitted to him, however, you, you lives in such a way that nobody believes it him."
I hope, it is effective into English as well.
Here in the anonymity it is simple to influence somebody.


Genieße Dein Leben ständig, denn Du bist länger tot als lebendig.
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@ Plowking
It is nice to see you too and smell some Irish fresh air <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

@ Al
Thank you for the bucket. But you do not have to clean up. Why do you always have to clean up? Drop this role. You can do better. (I am sorry I am not pming these lines but I am starting to have a dislike in pms recently...).

@ Egine
True friends do not ignore each other dear Moldavian friend. In no case. That is my opinion. So do not worry. People who ignored you are -always in my opinion- not true friends. Either Virtual or RL friends.

And I am not sure that I understood what happened between Galadriel and Seth. It seemed to me that they were close friends.

[color:"orange"]Anyway I am glad that Viper's friend is back. At least something good came up from all this.
[/color]
*Luc is scratching her head thinking that she chose a bad time to drop by <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />*


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

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I'm wondering how much of this gossip that is been talked about actually did happen and how much is merely made up to provoke certain things.


I absolutely trust Kiya, and I don't see any reaason not to believe her.

I'm still irritated about anything else, but I know Kiya as a most trustful person. I think she is right in everything she has written, although it sounds quite weird - and irritating (to me).

Alrik.


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@ Al
Thank you for the bucket. But you do not have to clean up. Why do you always have to clean up? Drop this role. You can do better. (I am sorry I am not pming these lines but I am starting to have a dislike in pms recently...).


Hm, maybe you're right. I think I should try something else, one day. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The reason is that I feel as a kind of moderator and healer, feeling responsible for the community process. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

But maybe it is the time to do something else, you might be right. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />



Last edited by AlrikFassbauer; 08/06/05 09:04 PM.

When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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Honestly I don't know who to trust, everyone of the involved seemed very respectable members to me, this kinda shattered this for everyone. I hope honesty takes the upper hand of this soon.


It's one of these days...
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Hm, maybe you're right. I think I should try something else, one day. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The reason is that I feel as a kind of moderator and healer, feeling responsible for the community process. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

But maybe it is the time to do something else, you might be right. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


No thats incorrect. I believe that there never was a time when the community needed a moderator and healer more badly.


bernhard live and let die!
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Honestly I don't know who to trust, everyone of the involved seemed very respectable members to me, this kinda shattered this for everyone. I hope honesty takes the upper hand of this soon.

How did you know in the real life who you can trust?
Just try, and dont give up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
After all i can say, the sun will shine tomorrow again, maybe not where you live ok, but the wish is counting <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Sure, these are not really words of comfort. But live is still go on. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
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If the sun shines tomorrow like it did today, I'm sure I'm going to miss much of it beeing stuck behind a pc in an unlit room :s

I hope there will still be a sun when I get my month off this summer. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


It's one of these days...
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And with this, I want to openly apologise to Barta for my behavior last on the "Pope" thread. I hope you are not mad at me for that anymore.

@ Galadriel
It's an old thread. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
No i was not mad at you.
I am catholic, i like the Pope !


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I have seen several times a situation when: today a person is very nice and kind with you and,... tomorrow, he/she just ignores you as you are absent. Then you start to question yourself, was that kindness real or just an illusion. Or maybe be you are that rude or dumb people are stopping to speak with you.


@ Egin

Sometimes i do not open all the topics in the forum because i do not have time.
Then i forgot the topics in which i have already posted.
It could happen that someone writes something for me in the topic and i do not answer.
I am sorry if some people could think that i ignore them.

The friendship in the forum is something special.
In real life i don't easely trust the people but in the virtual life it's worse !
I don't want to be friend with people i can't really trust.
We discussed about that a long time ago : some people say they are male/female and it is untrue or worse some people use several nicknames (male and female) in the same forum.

Barta

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Hey person D "person A, Person B is silly and needs to be more serious..." isn't something I would cass as harmfull gossip, I would class it as idiotic and irrelevant comments.

Tho person E:" Hey Person B, person person A and person C say you are silly and need to be more serious" seems odd, my anwser would be if I were person B, Yeah SO WHAT? what ere you trying to tell me. It does seem as an attempt to stirr up comotion.


Dear Dragh,
I know that you are Flemmish like me, but I still will answer your post in English, so that everyone will understand it.

If those things are "complaints" from one member to the other, I would classify it as gossip. The more because the others never complained about me, but Seth invented all this stuff up, to make me feel miserable. And saying that it comes from other members is still gossip, if you ask me?
I made one big mistake with him, and he used that against me.
If what he said was soo true, where are all the pm's he should have from the "complainers"? So, don't jump into conclusions yet, Seth is like they call a wolf in sheeps clothes. It's sad to learn that a fellow countrymen has betrayed soo many people on forum.
I'm ashamed in his place. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />



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Well , I don't know if my opinion will help but I've noticed trough my years of Internet Experience that you
just has to take it for what it is . 'Internet'. If you enter a forum , don't start with the intention to find
good , thrustworty friends but with the intention of talking with people about the same intrests. Maybe you'll meet
someone who could become a very close friend (mostly you won't) but don't start forum-things with that intention in the first place.

Internet is so dangerous for us people. It is so easy to find someone you think is special
but if you try to look deeper you mostly get dissappointed because with all this protection you get from the internet
you don't see the bad sites from a person if you don't want to see them for a very long time.

If you don't take your forum-friendships to serious you wont be hurt that easy because you have a
sharper look on the thing when your feelings aren't involved so it would be easier to find the bad apple in the basket.
And afther years foruming (and Interneting) you will exactly know who is a friend and who is just a nice forum-camerade <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
(And yes I do believe that a good friendship needs his time to establish )

The dark side of all this is that foruming isn't so much fun any more if you
talk with strangers. ^-^

Anyway these are my personal thoughs. You can read them , you can agree , you can disagree, you can start gossiping
with it but whatever you do , it wont't change my view on this whole internet thing . (Or you have to come with earthshocking facts , I am
always open for new points of view , but very stubborn to change my own point of view :P )

I still think this forum is special altough I am not active in it anymore and I am glad that so many people try to keep it special by not allowing it to die easily .


Greetings

Pol who spends some Coffee from the wereldwinkel (Or beer):P and some Appelflappen <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />.

Ps : Kiya , my female feminism supports you !!!


Reach for the moon.
The worst that can happen is you'll fall among the stars.

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Wow, long read. Intresting too. Why am I only mentioned as a spammer in here!? Meh, aah well.

I know most of you for 2,2 and half years now, and everyones been nice, and mean, at times. I don't think we should keep grudges for several years, but I don't think we need to gossip about people either. I've received pm's from many people informing me about certain things, or trying to get my side on things, and I just like to stay out of it.
What good is arguing on an internet site? It won't actually help anything.

Why hasn't Seth posted anywhere he?
I was suprised thouygh to here Kiya, lets say, 'attacking' him here. He's been friendly to me, and also mean, and manipulative ( ha ) but I still consider him a good person, and I think he deserves the 'angel' title. Why? Because he is helpful.

Oh, ps: I think I deserve it too! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Man, when did the fun times go? When Lynn would actually post in fun threads, and we'd enjoy things like the inn, and the island. =(

Lews, missing the old times, slinks off again.



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Lews, I definitely feel the same way you do, and that makes me scared... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

No, Im glad that at least you are still around, and <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />, we definitely should make a guild wars session one time together... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />


bernhard live and let die!
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hey people! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

somebody suggested to me some medicationto help with my anxiety attacks so i'm ok now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

i am glad to see many familiar faces around & i'm sorry to be so selfish in my earlier post to ask if anyone has heard of anything bad about me. actually i shouldn't do that. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

what Kiya & Gal have done in coming out of the closet & take out the linen cloth, i will not say what they do is right or wrong but it does take a whole lot of courage to do so not to mention the risk of having people looking at them differently due to their actions.

as for how we deal with things like this, situations like this one will show our true colour, which mine is more of a passive approach. but i cannot deny the effectiveness of an aggressive action in this case.

as for Lews, Viper, Nero; what's in the past is in the past. what u were back then & what u are right now are different & u guys are proven to be good people. & thanks for the vote of confidence, Viper.

@ Egin -> i know the feeling of being ignored at times but please don't generalise it that u sideline friends who care; me for example.

@ Luc -> i am always glad to have u as my friend. but please don't let a few bad fruits ruin the fact that there are more good people than bad here in this forum. or am i just too blind? & this is never a bad time to drop in. i'm here, Egin is here, & Bernhard is back! your D2 gang is also itching for action, i hear. if only Shyon is around.

@ Polgara -> your words are wise indeed but for those who are very new, they may not know about online safety. take me for example, this forum is my very first online interaction so i interact without experience & wisdom. it was only through those that i now consider friends that i have learnt of online safety & ethics which i wasn't aware of before.

if anyone were to be so willing to tell u almost everything about them, what would u do? embrace them & let them spill everything out? or stop them immediately & warn them of the dangers in doing that? take the trust or keep them at arms length & warn them?

@ bigclaw -> those are good words. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

@ Draggy -> me too, i hope truth will prevail.

@ Gal -> u are not responsible for what your countrymen have done/will do, so please don't feel guilt for them. & as for leaders for women, u ladies have to sort that one out.

@ Lews -> my young friend, don't be disillusioned but at the same time i know u have realised that all is not rosy. keep a firm footing on reality, have faith in God & keep smiling. it may not be so good now but it's also not that bad either.

@ Stone -> u are the man! there is good in all these & it's up to us to learn from it all.

@ Bern -> for the first time i hear a dragon has fear. what is this? look on the bright side; Luc is here, so be happy!

man, where is Jurak when u need him? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> we certainly need that funny guy right now.



......a gift from LaFille......
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Damn. I had a nice third post simmering around in the back of my mind but you all went and spoilt it by being, ugh, decent and admirable. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kitty.gif" alt="" />
And then you are conspired to ruin a perfectly nice rant about the nature of community and friendship, and opportunity, by secretly collaborating to discuss it beforehand. Well, sigh, I'll have to, ergh, be brief. (no, I still don't know what it means) Thank you all for not using the my word, fester. I'm taking it with me.

Lol. All so serious, we only get to do this once you know, we can laugh at ourselves and not make it worse. My first 2 posts here had a tongue in cheek and very generic tone, if overdramatic - this post is not, and it will be my opinion, rather than an idea, or questions.

janggut - I have no principles, or morals, I was asking a question about the concept of having a community on the Larian site, there was no judgment from my perspective, though I can understand why you might think so. I presented some things in a very dramatic way, because not knowing the situation specifically or players involved, rattling the cage for an answer about an odd human nature question required, to my mind, that level of emotional incitement. Incitation?

I tried to be clear with my disclaimers, but stylistically there was room for confusion - I never sought to injure anyone, even in the short term, I will not apologize, however, I do hope that anyone hurt can forgive my role and style to the extent you think a positive result could have been achieved in another way. (I will, out of sheer hubris, declare this positive, though with no personal base of reference...ow, headache, headache)

Kiya - Sorry, I didn't know you were reading the thread, nor would I have expected participation, though not because you couldn't or wouldn't. You're always surprising, that's why we love you.

This post isn't just to respond to everyone though, actually it was to point something out about this event.

What Viper, Kiya, and Galadriel have done is perhaps far more extraordinary than you may realize...because now this is a community - and whether it continues and strengthens will depend on each of you. A community - and friends, support each other, in good and bad times, and a lot of secrets were being kept, a lot of private relationships, the opposite of what many said they wanted for the social part of the forum.

Kiya mentioned once how nice it was that the German members had a friendly community, not just "nice" behavior on the surface, but real friendships. People you could share things, even difficult personal issues with, and they would be supportive, they listened and cared. But the English speaking forums never quite congealed into the same thing, IMO there was a bud, but the flower never quite bloomed, though there have been attempts.

Recently it seemed headed in a downward spiral, a splintering of a once beautiful idea that only asked for, lol, simple things like honesty and openness, a willingness to trust people and get trust back. No one person can be blamed for this, for people here, special and valuable people, not quite consistently treating others as they might "real" friends. Not everyone wants this for their experience here, but for those that do - it is possible and takes only your willingness to make it so, to create something magical, something I think a lot of people in life really want- a collection of readily accessible genuine friends.

The cost is effort and potential pain, but the result, I think, is more than worth it. Do you see what we have discovered recently, lessons, and more importantly, information about our friends that can deepen that friendship - about how great their courage is.

janggut mentioned something about active vs passive approaches, my response would be, the pyramids were not build by waiting for them to stack themselves. Relationships take some effort and motivation, I think many people here have the motivation but haven't quite sensed the opportunity where effort would pay off, where lots of real and deep friendships could flower and deeply root.

There is no time like the present. Think carefully about it, if you are reluctant, would you pass up the chance to have a better friendship with a ray of sunshine, like Lucretia, only to find out that the next day she had been in some fatal accident, and you lost something infinitely valuable. Why wait, be passive, janggut? Ah, you know why.

Barta should definitely lead the Larian Amazons, because Kiya has to be the spiritual advisor <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> . But Barta, and others, have to promise to not encourage "polite" or artificial behavior too often. Sadness and fleeing isn't the only option either - though often our society encourages people to fit into barbie-doll molds and hide our anger, or fears, and other, "darker", emotions, this only results in seeing, or being, half of a person. Dealing with these things takes practice too, and it would be nice to have a community where you might pick up pointers.

It's ok to be angry, to be flippant, to tell your friends your passing thoughts, to be funny, even mean sometimes, because after all.... they are friends.


On another note, Lews~ is right about something - if I have a problem with Viper I can leave - and I should, not just for Viper alone, but the sword of vengeance always strikes two victims. One seems to be Seth~, but the bad taste left by my style in these matters is not easily forgotten and will be a source of discomfort. Since I have stated/implied that helping and not disrupting the community is my goal, logically then, I have to remove myself, not merely being inactive, but not visiting either. Though as some pointed out, not being seen as a member, makes it kind of a moot point. I'll give you one or two days to insult me though, but you have to be funny or really offensive, or I'll be bored. And Viper, I want some more original curses, I suspect you haven't fully expressed yourself. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />
Loki
[color:"orange"] Associate member of the Viper, Kiya, Barta, Tsel, and NeroJB fan clubs [/color] Hmmm, my cards aren't letting me in the door, I think I sat on a magnet.

P.S. Thanks Lynn, for the thread
P.P.S. Alrik~, I deduced that you were off topic... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
P.P.. um, whatever comes next, NeroJB - MIA the group or MIA as in missing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />, hey, PWA Lives Forever, don't shoot the courier <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

Viper - No, just Lowkey here, I was just pointing out the danger of assumptions, though I am one of those shifty males. Besides, my avatar is often a wolf, so I certainly wouldn't have a avatar tagline that read, "stealing the souls of wolves", would I?

Seth~ - I have no vested interest in you, though that you found it necessary or even fun to hurt people here I find more bizarre and pitiful than anything else, but if this is a community you want to be a part of, granted many won't trust you significantly for a very, very long time, but I don't know that fleeing is the only option. But with no explanation, apology, or response, I think your address(es) should be banned. And if you can successfully apologize and explain, I will regret missing them, because, boy, they better be good.

HEY - janggut, you slipped in a new post and avatar, I like the avatar, just as well I won't be using one <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> .


-If I were a lemming, I think I would push the lemming in front of me off a cliff, because hey, what's funnier than a falling lemming?
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Thank you very much, Galadriel for contacting me - thank you very much for speaking up clearly and in public. Actually you gave me courage to lay open what was burdening me for a long time - in fact since end of 2002.

Maybe I should have done it earlier - maybe now was the right time, who knows? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

In any case, you're courageous enough to break the silence. A silence I kept myself. Long years of distrust and caution popping up every now and then. Draining me.

Thank you, Dear <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" />
Kiya

I understand it if some refuse to believe - emotional abuse is something making one feel filthy all over. And sadly... it's a topic a lot of females are far more familiar with than males - yep. Sad but true.

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