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it may have been my poorly worded staements. or that u have taken my words out of context. or both or neither.

whatever case that is, plus the fact that i am too lazy to go back & pore over too meticulously the words, i would liek to start with your most recent post. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

when i mentioned inaction as virtuous & valourous as action, it is not to be taken generally as that total inaction bears the effect of desired result everytime. to the situation of rumours & backstabs, there are times & places where inaction is always better, or delayed action is best. why react to every little bump? why must we resort to act act act when there are times sitting back & observe can bear better fruit?

in this case, yes, i cannot deny that cleaning the linen out in the open has the desired effect. but at the same time, please do not discount & generalise the fact that inaction can be as effective; only that wisdom is needed to know the difference.

from my side, action is very much useless as i have absolutely nothing to do with all these except for the interactions with the people involved, whose private intercourse has nothing to do with me. so i hope u understand my shock upon learning the soiled side of the linen that's out of my view.

& in the subject of friendship, yes, i agree action is a must but rumours & backstabs & lies? come on, action without wisdom & information will only perpetuate speculation, as how u described Viper's action. so let's not put things too generally?

how i see things; your true self, our true selves will only show by trial of fire. no amount of professing our principles, no matter how high & mighty they may be, means anything when actions/inaction tell otherwise. this is why i dare not pass judgement even when things now have unfolded. i can't say what Kiya & Gal did were right or wrong. i see it as what they did that they felt necessary.

feel proud for being a catalyst, if u must or will, mr Lowkey, but don't get too giddy on playing god; riling people up & telling them it's for their own good. as i always say with my fav word: TACT.

as for Seth, i am still willing to listen so please if u still care for the people here, come forward.



......a gift from LaFille......
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@ Al
"Healer" is a totally different thing than "Cleaner"
You can be a "Healer" as much as you want (I permit it to you *Luc laughs with her "dimocratic" behaviour*). Stay a "Healer" not a "Cleaner" please. A "Healer" is pretty much needed and in my opinion this is a role that suits you better <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

As far as Lowkey is concerned :
There! I told you he is a nice guy. I really need to get a dictionary though <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

As far as the recent events :

I know one thing : I trust Kiya very much in whatever she says. And considering she is away from the forum for a long time, she has no gain to say the things she said about Seth. I will try to find some time ans search my inbox. Then I will come back again and say the things I have to say. If I have the pms I have in mind that is.


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

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Waw! There's still a community! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />

And Stone:

Lynn, i think it is not necessary to close a thread like this. We can say, thats life. And things like this will happen again and then? Close the next thread like this one? Maybe the Members will think it is better if they do not throw the facts on the table becouse is it like a punishment if a thread is closed.

That's why I wrote: <Facts and names need to be thrown on the table!> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Because I didn't want to close this thread. Things need to be cleared out, otherwise the problem gets worse and more people will be a victim.

Euh... just wanted to let you know. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

And I am still waiting for someone's explanation. Guilty until proven innocent...

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i'm sorry to be so selfish in my earlier post to ask if anyone has heard of anything bad about me. actually i shouldn't do that.


@janggut : No problem. It's natural to me wanting to know what people talk about my self. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

I have experienced mobbing at school - so I almost always expect some sort of gossipt about me ... it's like swarms of flies flying around me ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> I don't care nowadays. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Quote
@ Egin -> i know the feeling of being ignored at times


Welcome to the Club ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Quote
@ Al
"Healer" is a totally different thing than "Cleaner"
You can be a "Healer" as much as you want (I permit it to you *Luc laughs with her "dimocratic" behaviour*). Stay a "Healer" not a "Cleaner" please. A "Healer" is pretty much needed and in my opinion this is a role that suits you better


Thanks. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


Quote
P.P.S. Alrik~, I deduced that you were off topic...


Okay, here's something serious.


Personally, I partly feel actually responsible to get this community "up and running". I think that this forum needs people who take care on the community.

Currently looking for ways how to express what I mean ... I partly feel guilty because I feel responsible for this forum but couldn't do anything.

The reason is clear : I never got any news about this "affair". I was never involved.

But nevertheless I feel as if I should've acted - because I feel responsible.

My ratio says to me that I should feel guilty because I have failed. My intuition instead says to me that I shouldn't because i couldn't do anything - because I didn't know.

I think it's something I've got to learn. Watch Star Wars Episode III and you'll learn a bit more about manipulation of people.


Quote
P.P.S. Alrik~, I deduced that you were off topic...



That's the role I play. I feel responsible for this forum, so I take the role of a jester, fool, clown, off-topic - poster whenever I feel tension increasing. It's my way of trying to keep this community alive, to keep it "up & running".

I actually might appear as a fool sometimes. I often place posts that say nothing except jokes, just to keep the morale high, and not to let "bad vibes" grow up.


I have read that in some north american native tribes jesters, fun-makers, clowns are even sacred. They have an important role to play within their society. A role that has been partly forgotten some countries.

I see the role of a fool essential to a community - not too much, not too openly, but very subtle. I play for the community service.

I know that this might create a false impression of me. Some people might see me as a weak person, then, not capable of doing other things than ... being a fool.


However, I've learned that sometimes it might not be good to calm down tension. In this discussion it might well be tht it was necessary that the tension built up - for clearing. Every volcano must erupt some time when the tension is too high. Then, for the next years after that eruption, it might be safer to live there. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


As a last word, I'll quote a saying I have recently read in a totally different forum (there was a discussion about friendships) :

"A close friend might also become a close fiend."

Closing,

Alrik.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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"A close friend might also become a close fiend."

Or, like Popeye said, "A good fiend is better than a bad friend, you know allways what you have in a good fiend" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Lynn, i thought that your writing
[color:"orange"] I have read all of it, and no action can be taken right now [/color]
mean that there comes a action from you <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
This was the reason for me to post my opinion about this.
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


Das Ganze ist mehr als die Summe seiner Teile(Aristoteles)
Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
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Long reading thread. When reading it makes me wonder "What Would Brian Boitano Do?" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


Not in the mood for cheese?
That excuse has more holes than a slice this fine Gorgombert!
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Waw! There's still a community! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />


I think we made lynn cry!

and as you all know that I am a movie junkie...a quote comes to mind...

"Wow, isnt it great that were all better people...FISHY!!!!"

-Mike Meyers, Waynes World - Possibly the best comedy ever...

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-Mike Meyers, Waynes World - Possibly the best comedy ever...


Waynestock is.


It's one of these days...
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Ok I had a look to my inbox but unfortunatelly most of the correspondence I had in mind is in ICQ and of course, I DO NOT HAVE ANY COPIES. Why? Because Luc is naive and never keeps copies. But I have a post in my inbox which can be evidence if it is needed for any forum member and most important for any Larian member.

@ Lynn is it true that Seth was in touch with you constantly and that he informed you about things concerning forum members? (This was said to me by Seth in ICQ). And is it truth that he was "behind the sceenes" as he said with you and Marian in the case of DAD in order to be banned? (This I have it in my inbox and it is at your disposal). Do not get me wrong here. I do not want to blame anyone. It is just that I feel that it is not moral someone gather information for the members and then pass it on to you. I have told that to Seth. He said to me that you asked it. I am saying this not because I want to make worse things worst but as Lynn said things must be put on the table. So I need to know. Seth also told me that in some cases he asked you to name some members Angels. And that you did this having in mind his opinion about those members. Is that truth?

Lynn you do not have to answer to any of this. After all you said it yourself, you work for the Larian Studios, and your work does not include solving our problems. The reason I would like to have an answer is only because I want to learn the truth and because this is something that I have kept in my mind during all the time I was in here considering it as a negative thing of the forum. Plus I think that you should be aware of what it is said.

Many people would think that I am wrong doing it. Some others will think I am not. For the people who will think that I am wrong, I need to say that I have given a great thought before I post this. People who know me, also know that I do not usually gossip, I do not make any questions -or at least I ask permition to ask. However people who are close to me, know my e-mail address and they know where to find me in case that this post will be the cause of my leaving the Larian forum.
Ok I am done.
Luc


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

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@Luc - I dont think there's anything wrong with what you said...I'd like to know all this. I think everyone has a right to know whats actually going on, and if there's some deceit on the part of seth (or anyone else).

I've never had a PM from seth, but I'm a man, so not his usual target perhaps.

Either way...I know who I believe in all this...and it's you ladies, luc, kiya, galadriel etc...

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Thank you Plowking about the trust. The thing is that I could say some more but I do not have any proof. And I never permit to myself to say things without proofs. In any case I feel better that I have wrote this. It was in my mind for a long time and made me sometimes wonder about Lynn. But only sometimes. On one hand I could not believe that this could be true. On the other I was new here and I was not sure for anyone.
The only thing that troubles me is that Lynn will be very disapointed. I know I would feel that way. I am really sorry.


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

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Normally I would never do this, but in this case I make an exceptionÖ

@ Lynn is it true that Seth was in touch with you constantly and that he informed you about things concerning forum members? (This was said to me by Seth in ICQ).

He did send me a few PMís, not that much and on a very irregular base. I didnít always reply to them... Honestly, I canít recall all the PMís (some were personal towards me, so I stopped replying) because usually I clean my PMís, but by accident I still have two PMís from him and yes, that was about two forum members. Because it was too personal and it was none of my business, I told him that I wonít react, and so I didnít. He did understand.

And is it truth that he was "behind the sceenes" as he said with you and Marian in the case of DAD in order to be banned?

Thatís a long time ago and I donít remember thatÖ But DAD has never been banned.
I would never ban someone because another person asks me, never.

He said to me that you asked it.
Thatís completey wrong!

Seth also told me that in some cases he asked you to name some members Angels.
I did this once yes, but not because he asked me. On the other hand, I did check if that person deserved the title, and she did, so I made her a Helper.

Hope that helps a little to clear things up.

And still I hope he shows up here, because I (and you too I guess) want to hear his version too.

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Long reading thread. When reading it makes me wonder "What Would Brian Boitano Do?" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />


Who's that ?


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
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It's just a sdentance like "What would jesus do" but the southpark version.

What Would Brian Boitano Do? press the heads <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

just some comic relief in the thread. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


Not in the mood for cheese?
That excuse has more holes than a slice this fine Gorgombert!
Morbo #307914 09/06/05 07:32 PM
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There done ... over and out <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Post deleted by MeaCulpa


Mea Culpa's Demesne Note; artwork for Avatar courtesy of NWN and CEP Old Elven Saying: "Never say Never if you're gonna live forever!!!" "I didn't do it, it wasn't my fault"
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@ Lynn
Thank you for replying. I guess I knew what the answers would be. The pm I have for DAD is old that is true. But I still have it and you can ask it whenever you want. I am glad you decided to reply because silence is not good in these cases. I am also glad that this is clear now.

As far as the Angels concerned I am not referring to that person you wrote in your post. If we are talking about the same person, I know her and I believe too that she deserved to be named like this.
Seth told me not only for that person but for almost all Angels who were named like that after his proposals. Let me make clear that I am not asking you anymore. I am just informing you ok?. Many times while I was in here I wanted to ask you personally but I always changed my mind. Why? Because even if I did not like that, I thought that it was none of my business.
Why I did not like that? Because I think this is not moral. But that is just what I think and my point of view might sound weird to other people. I am really sorry I do not have any copies from the conversations I had with Seth in ICQ. I do not have any ICQ account now. Why? I had to close it down because I did not want any messages from Seth.

However, I am sorry for any trouble my post may have caused to you because I know you are bussy and I suppose that the last thing you need in your work among others is problems like this.
I thank you again for your reply.
Luc


You can have my absence of faith
you can have my everything...

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Thank you, Lucretia for your investigations too. The more days go by the more filth that poors out the drain. I told Lynn that Seth had build an image of being a great helper around the forum, but the more I get through his pm's, the more I see that he likes that other people lean on him for support and strenght.

But when you go through his posts, you can also read the contempt for females. He doesn't like them at all. You can check it if you want.

And Kiya, you're welcome girl. Glad that I could help you and you also helped me. It was a burden on my shoulders as well. I hope we can be friends?

Barta, I know that we didn't get along that well, but we don't have to agree with everything, don't we?
According to Seth, your title of Fallen Angel, was his idea. You should be thankful to him for that <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> (I have it in one of his pm's)
But what do you think of the title of Larian Ambassador? That title is only yours to be thankfull for!! And Kiya as your spiritual advisor? Maybe Lucretia for your right hand? What a strong female section this could be!!
Long live our ambassador!! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/XmasJump.gif" alt="" />

O yes, and Plowking, thanks for your trust in us. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by galadriel; 10/06/05 05:57 PM.


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Odd, I've heard the same from Seth, that he was helping out with the whole DAD mess, and that he pm's Lynn alot, that he is 'eyes and ears' for her while she's away and they keep close contact.

On MSN mind, and I don't keep copies either.

I still think he's a good person though. Alot of people were helping with the DAD case.



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@ Polgara

I really like your post. I agree with everything, specially with this part :

Quote
If you don't take your forum-friendships to serious you wont be hurt that easy because you have a
sharper look on the thing when your feelings aren't involved so it would be easier to find the bad apple in the basket.
And afther years foruming (and Interneting) you will exactly know who is a friend and who is just a nice forum-camerade <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
(And yes I do believe that a good friendship needs his time to establish )

Yes a good friendship needs time to establish


@ Lowkey

Why do you write so long posts !
Think about the people who have difficulties with the english language !

Quote
But Barta, and others, have to promise to not encourage "polite" or artificial behavior too often.

I have encouraged a polite behaviour because i was pretty sure that this topic would have turn very soon in a very big war with agressive people insulting each other.
I was completely wrong
Everybody cares about the feelings of the other people even when they don't agree.

But i never encouraged an artificial behaviour.
In some groups, all the people seem to have the same opinion because they are scared of being throwned out of the group if they don't agree with the majority.
In this forum everybody feels free to give his own opinion.


@ MeaCulpa

I don't understand anything in you post !


@ Galadriel

Quote
Barta, I know that we didn't get along that well, but we don't have to agree with everything, don't we?

I agree that we don't have to agree with everything.
But please stop thinking that there is something wrong between us.

It is not because i don't send PM to the people or because i don't talk a lot with them that they could think that i am ignoring them.
When my PM box was full of PM i was completely disturbed.
Now i just choose the topics in which i want to post, i take my time and i feel free.
Like Kiya i need to get a life !

BTW about gossips about me Seth told me :
"I received tons of PM of people thinking that you have a love affair in real life with [nocando] (a well known french member)".
I guess he told this gossip to some other people and i have to say : no i don't have a love affair with anybody !"


Quote
According to Seth, your title of Fallen Angel, was his idea. You should be thankful to him for that (I have it in one of his pm's)

Yes it was his idea but i did not agree with it.
Lews had the same idea several months before Seth and i told him : "Thanks but don't ask anything for me".
I am not a great helper in the english section but i am a good helper in the french section.
It's easy i just have to translate in french the good answers from Raze or Kiya. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />


@ Lews

Quote
I still think he's a good person though. Alot of people were helping with the DAD case.

Each of us has a good side and a bad side even you !
Seth helped me a lot. He explained me a lot of things. He was a good online friend and he never hurted me.
But when Kiya told me that he has hurted her i could not stay his friend.
It was impossible.
I understand your feelings and i will still like you the same way if you don't agree with Kiya.

Barta

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True, I got a mail from Setharmon dealing with the DAD incident as well - my reaction was to close down the 2nd mail account (didn't have that one in end of 2002/beginning 2003, so it was not blocked).

I wished no intervention from him dealing with myself at NO time (for new members, unfamiliar with this case => I had trouble with a member here, dealt with manipulation, the attack of my best female friend and her husband. I left the forum, because I thought my absence would cool things down - and because I have a very strong allergy against being possessed. No one forces me into friendship - I choose alone).

I was out of Setharmon's claws and I intended to keep that so. I watched if members seemed to have a trustful contact with him and was cautious in revealing my personal info then. Why? Gossip is common, one of the methods to create nearness. And I knew he liked to point out how important he is on the board and supported by Larians. Not that it was true - but added to the image he created here: grey eminence, puppeteer, spider in the centre of the web.

I only warned when I was asked by females about him. Told my story then - AFTER asking a lot of questions to find out the reason for their query. Wondered about the tip of the iceberg - how many had contact. How many he had told he had to back me off because I wanted more than friendship. How many believed that and therefore kept away from me, thus maybe becoming easy prey.

[color:"yellow"]@Janggut[/color] => how come you had the impression Setharmon and I are on close, good terms? Where did I give this impression, please? What lead to your conclusion? You read carefully? Where did I, kiya, give the impression actively?
kiya

The more I read here, specially Luc (poor lady <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" /> ) the more I see how cleverly Setharmon built and spread his spider web. But your inner self warned you, hm?

Ach, Barta - so he used the love affair weapon in your case as well? ARGH!

Last edited by kiya; 10/06/05 12:35 AM.
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