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@Janggut => how come you had the impression Setharmon and I are on close, good terms? Where did I give this impression, please? What lead to your conclusion? You read carefully? Where did I, kiya, give the impression?
kiya

Like Janggut i never thought that you could be in bad terms with Seth.
You are both very old forum members and i thought that everybody in the old forum were good friends.
I was very surprised when you told me about the gossips.
I was not expecting this kind of answer.
What i can say it is that you are very good to hide your feelings. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />

Barta

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Barta:
What i can say it is that you are very good to hide your feelings


True - being in the combat zone for several years leads to caution. I don't trust easily, strong streak in my personality - strong self-protective adder. Strong allergy against manipulation and emotional abuse. I wait until I'm asked - as you did, ma chčre amie <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" /> - and if I trust enough then, I'm open, I tell my story and warn. Hope, I'm believed - hope, the female is careful then - hope, she was not hurt.
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I just read this thread start to finish and am greatly distrubed by the lack of sensitivity of people. Can't you see that this has turned into a witch hunt? It is completely out of line and totally off topic.

I don't care who you dislike or why, it is completely inappropriate to drag person out into a public forum and embarass them in front of other people. Geez! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/memad.gif" alt="" />

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I've also just read this thread, and I totally disagree with you. This is not about embarassing someone without reason. If someone manipulates members of a community, thus harming the community, this person should be expelled, and for that, those manipulations should be made public. Besides, threatening someone to hack their computer is a criminal offence (at least where I live) and should not be tolerated. It's not about liking or disliking someone.

In a witch hunt, the accused doesn't get a chance to properly defend him/herself. As several forum members have stated, they're still willing to listen and waiting for a statement.

The victims of any such manipulations have my respect. It certainly takes courage to go public with those things.

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I can understand you Lady Sarah, in some vantage point you are right, but some thing have to stop. And in this case is the only way to stop this obvious. We cannot clear those things via PM. It is impossible becouse the only way to get the truth is to speak open, so that everybody can see whats going on.
And i know Kiya as a honest Member which i can thrust completly. I know that this step is not easy for her, becouse she dont like it to stay in the middle of the puplik interest. And i think for the other involved Member is the situation similar, even if i dont know them like i Kiya know.

I think this thread is now reaching a point where we all have to be more carefull. It is importand to say our opinion.
But before we can say it was right, or it was not right to handle these thing in this way, we have to wait for Setharmons statement.




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Aber wenn man das einzelne nicht mehr beachtet, hat das ganze keinen Sinn mehr (Stone)
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I agree with what Stone said on that last point, and I would like to expose a point that concerns me before all this evolves.
Please remember what opinions are; beware of the vengeance desire and bloodthirst such situations may awake.


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@Janggut => how come you had the impression Setharmon and I are on close, good terms? Where did I give this impression, please? What lead to your conclusion? You read carefully? Where did I, kiya, give the impression actively?
kiya


I´m not Janggut, but I also hat the impression that you were in contact with Setharmon all the time. Not because of something you said or did, but because of him. Seth and I have also been in quite a close contact. It happened when Kyra went home. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

Seth wrote me a PM that some other person here had the Idea of something like a condolance E-mail to Fafnir. I wrote him back that I wouldn´t participate because I didn´t knew Fafnir very well and didn´t wanted to be too personal, to interupt and disturb him in this situation. Seth wrote me back that he would had just spoken with you Kiya and you and he himself would have the same opinion. He also wrote that he would be in close contact with Lynn in order to prevent other forum members of doing good will damage in this case.

At his time I thought that he is a most sensible and trustful person. Maybe I´m naive.

@Barta: If I understood Meas post correctely she recieved a PM from Fafnir in which he accused Mea of having said something bad to Kyra. Mea sais that she had absolutely no idea what happened at that time. (so - it was probably gossip once agian.)


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He also wrote that he would be in close contact with Lynn in order to prevent other forum members of doing good will damage in this case.

Yes, that's true. He contacted me once about this, only once. And we had the same opinion indeed.

When someone claims he/she has close contact to me, or whatever, being it untrue, then I don't really mind. That's not a problem, is it? The problem here is in what we have read earlier, about the manipulations, that's what it is about, right?

Let's hope we can sort this out soon.

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dear Kiya,

the reason i thought that u are close to Seth is that he told me he is close to u as a friend. as for details, if u want to know more, u can PM me, but for both u & him, i won't say anything more in public.

i can never understand your distress, Mea. because somehow i am fortunate not to be in such a situation as u. i'm sorry to know that bad things like that happened to u.

though i understand the need to clear things up, i am very sad to see both Kyra's & Fafnir's names beinf dragged out here. memories. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />

so let's talk only necessary stuff & not drag any other names that should stay in the past; like DAD. that was resolved a long time ago so please, let it stay there.

once again; Seth, come forward please & let's deal with this issue once & for all. i am not going to judge u, nor others except those involved.

@ Lady Sarah -> we will have to wait for Seth to come out then this can be resolved.

as for others, again i say let's not drag any names out unnecessarily which can open old wounds. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/disagree.gif" alt="" />



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Yep, that´s true Lynn. However I made that post only because I wanted to give Kiya a proof why at least I had had the Impression of her beeing a close friend to Setharmon. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Edit: @Janggut: you´re right bearded friend. As always. But although I haven´t been here for quite a while I feel a bit responsible too for this situation. I was in close contact to Seth for quite a while and I really cannot remember what I said to him. I know at least one female person here, with whom I am in good contact too, Setharmon was in a way interested in. Of course I told only good things about her, but as it looks now I should have shut down completely.

I just can´t remember how many PM´s Seth and I exchanged so it might be the case that one time I did say something leading a bit too this situation. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by bernhard; 10/06/05 08:08 AM.

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@Bernhard => at that time my PM box was closed, I needed to concentrate on my job project and didn't want to have gamers in need of help for the game wait endlessly. So... it was untrue. Setharmon had no opportunity to contact me.
******************

In general about witch hunt => true, I saw that happen to gamer Jove on the old forum. And my name was used to start it. That not only embarassed me, it aggravated me highly.

In general about blood thirst and vengeance => true. I had phases like that at times in 2003. Specially when I learned my name was used to achieve something. But mostly I felt helpless anger, leading to more caution on my behalf. And now? Nope - distance is too large. There is one thing though I feel clearly and strongly => determination to clarify that I have absolutely NO contact to Setharmon, no agreements or discussions about actions here on the forum, none at all.

Embarass Setharmon? I'd call it clarification - to demask. If he used my name to achieve something from 2003 on, it was done on his own behalf - solely.

I fully know the meaning of the word "witch hunt" - I sadly don't know an Anglo-American phrase of repeatedly abusing my name and person to achieve something. But I certainly DO know which emotions this knowledge raises in myself.
Kiya

@Janggut => thank you. I don't think details are necessary. I only wanted to know if I had given an impression I don't know of.

[color:"yellow"]Edit:[/color] Results of my research =>
I closed my PM box at the end of October 2004, reopened middle of March 2005. Was in the USA for vacancy from 27th December 2004 on until 20/21st January 2005.

The last mail I got from Setharmon, where I reacted with closing down my mail account totally was 1st quartal 2003.

His last PM towards me was end of June 2003. Since then no PM contact from either side.

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Embarass Setharmon? I'd call it clarification - to demask.

I agree. And I think it's a good thing that all this behind the scene stuff is reaching the surface, and that's what this is about.
Needless to say, it probably IS embarrassing for the man in the spotlights to be exposed like this, but the way I see it he has only himself to thank for that. I hope he'll be able to put aside that embarrassment and still has some pride left to at least face the confrontation and give us his side of the story...


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Some points of view I want to share with you :

A. Barta => even if you HAD a love affair with a certain member, this is NOT our business. (I am really sick with Seth now. This is pathetic!) Barta, and everybody else in here have the right to do what they want with their personal life and this is not our business.

B. This is not a witch hunt. This is -as far as I am concerned- a civilized OPEN conversation in order to sort things out. I am more than willing to listen to Seth's answers to all those accusations. There is a saying here that is -pretty poor translated- "Listen to me first and then hit me". However I know who I trust. My opinion is that this open conversation was necessary -as Stone pointed out- because via pms the only thing we would achieve is to continue a sick situation in which someone told someone, told someone, told someone.... etc. Clear questions and clear answers will sort things out.

C. Nobody is FORCING nobody to decide or take sides in here. Everybody is free to read and judge by his/her own free will. This is not bad. I think here we call it dimocracy. Again as far as I am concerned this is not a war, nor a witch hunt and I know that most of the members will agree with me. Read how many misunderstandings are cleared up in this thread. This is healthy I think. And perhaps this will make the community stronger -not against Seth- but towards each other.

D. Yes we must be carefull to what we write in this thread from now on -as LaFille said- because it is very easy to let unger get over us. Plus it is easy to get over the boredom we might feel by using this thread with the juicy details and exposures. This should not happen by no means. Lets sort things out and move on.

C. Bernhard => you have mentioned a female that Seth was interested in and since you do not remember what info you shared with him, you should either name her or warn her via pm if you do not wish to tell her name in public. Some would think that she would be hurt. Some others will not. IMHO she should know about that.

E. Kiya => Yeap this sensor still works <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Luc <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />


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I have encouraged a polite behaviour because i was pretty sure that this topic would have turn very soon in a very big war with agressive people insulting each other.
I was completely wrong
Everybody cares about the feelings of the other people even when they don't agree.


I do totally agree !

You cannot imagine how worried I was when I saw this thread !



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C. Bernhard => you have mentioned a female that Seth was interested in and since you do not remember what info you shared with him, you should either name her or warn her via pm if you do not wish to tell her name in public. Some would think that she would be hurt. Some others will not. IMHO she should know about that.


I´m still in contact with this person and so there is no danger at all. She was warned by somebody else month ago she told me btw.


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by Lowkey:

Kiya mentioned once how nice it was that the German members had a friendly community, not just "nice" behavior on the surface, but real friendships. People you could share things, even difficult personal issues with, and they would be supportive, they listened and cared. But the English speaking forums never quite congealed into the same thing, IMO there was a bud, but the flower never quite bloomed, though there have been attempts.


Well, I wouldn't say it's that simple in the German forum. First of all, there are less people... and less posts... that's the main difference.

Another difference is that the community there is still based on the forum "characters" and not entirely on the real persons.

Generally, I am really surprised by the problems mentioned here. How can one person cause such troubles? How gullible have people to be in order to believe stupid PMs by such a person (or any other, for that matter)? I mean, sure, I can try to tell [nocando] to people in PMs, but why would anyone believe that?

Personally, I don't have anything against talking in PM but if someone tells me negative details about anyone else, I don't just believe that... if I care, I try to find out more. And if I don't care, I shrug and don't do anything.

I think some people here should do the same instead of getting emotionally involved this much.

With that, I don't want to say that I don't regard the community here as nice thing... but after all, it's only an online community. Even in "real" communities, you have various problems, so why wouldn't there be such in online ones? However, I have to agree a bit with Lowkey there. I don't have the time to check the English part every day or even post regularly. But when I come here, I often see a thread in which these problems are the topic. Someone leaves, comes back, leaves again, sulks, cries, is mad, leaves again, is mean and whatnot.

I am not a great fan of such threads at all... mostly it looks like this one. Viper posts something bad/unfair which happened to him, and then everyone feels the urge to assure him that he is nice and that they feel with him and such things. That might be correct, I don't want to say Viper sucks (even though I don't like the car), but I don't like such threads. It's not really productive and represents rather a giant group hug.

A group hug can be nice of course... but not in a forum in my opinion. And the worst part is: If you dare to break the vicious circle of hugging and assuring and post something remotely criticizing - even if you don't mean any harm but just want to provoke some thoughts - you get the evil eye.

I might be exaggerating a bit, but it's a recurring pattern for sure.


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Another difference is that the community there is still based on the forum "characters" and not entirely on the real persons.


Yes, that's the main difference.


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Please don't misunderstand me. I am not trying to defend Seth. I don't know him or anyone else well enough to judge whether he/she is right or wrong. I was just disturbed that people would be so harsh to a member on our forum in such a public place.

All is ok now. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

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I dont know how well the term overkill translates but I think we may be at that point...I think enough dirty laundry has been aired and though things are civil at the moment I think we may be poking the sleeping giant one too many times...

with that I bow out continue as you will... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" />

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@ LadySarah
No no you were not misunderstood. At least not from me. You are an Adept which means you are new here and you do not know many people. And of course you are free to express your opinion! And up to one point you are right. Public exposure is very hard, even in a virtual community. I just think that in this case this was necessary because many members were disturbed.

Anyway I welcome you in the forum (I did not have the chance to do this) and I hope that you will enjoy your stay in these -as Jurak says- "Funny pages".
Luc <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />


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