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#328080 14/02/06 11:11 AM
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(For Lynn: I was not sure where to post this, so feel free to move it)
[color:"red"] !!!WARNING!!!ACHTUNG!!! [/color]
RPG game developers should be warned that if they incorporate the suggestion given here-under, they are risking the destruction of *mental* productivity/efficiency of a whole generation of RPG players all over the world (because there is a high probability that people will prefer the game over their work). Proceed if you are willing to take the risk.

Here it goes:
It is good that larian gives a lot of options with the style and type of gameplay. I suggest that one ultimate armor and weapon must given in the game for every choice made. And that should very poweful. Powerful, beyond doubt, than every other wargear found in its class, and useful for the player's type.

Allow me to reason why it will be so good. When we kill the final daemon, the game finishes... no rewards... not much fun left after that! But when you overcome several obstructions to find something you know that will make your life easy (while you are in the game) is much more fun. Most games neglect it. They either put two 'most powerful' things (like the Dragon Armor and the Larian Armor) or none at all. Fable, The Lost Chapter sports a really big hammer that beats every opponents to leaky bag meat in no time. I know a friend who plays it for that hammer. Most games don't even have a nice hammer or a mace. It should be kept in mind that if one wants to become a spearman, he should benefit from his armor set. The spearman would love to find it. Ofcourse you would want to keep several other objects to help the player's type to reach the final gear.

What I am saying is, keep something like:
The White Hermit's set for a wanna be healer
Zandalor's set for a wanna be mage
Lady Nightwisper's set for an archer
Taryal's set for a soldier
Duna's set for an axe user
and stuff like that... I think you got the idea

Such gears give the feeling of "made for me" to the player. Do consider it.

Last edited by Wallace; 14/02/06 11:16 AM.

Hail Divinity!
#328081 14/02/06 02:56 PM
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You mean sets for particular professions ? Sounds interesting ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

It's a bit like in Sacred ... There are sets in it which can be worn only by certain types of characters ...

Another possibility would be to let the sets allow for all characters, but some characters/professions receive more bonusses (boni) for them than others. Like an elven set woulod give an Elf more boni than a human mage or so.

Another thing I found highly interesting was - to follow that trail <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - to give skills to a type of character that this character couldn't get otherwise.

But I think this goes too much into the direction of Sacred ... I don't know what Larian has actually planned ...



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
#328082 14/02/06 04:09 PM
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Yes the set should favour one profession like nothing else in the game. Ofcourse I *don't want* that player's "profession" (in the game) to stop him from using other equipments. For example a warrior shuold be able to use an armor that gives mana but obviously that's not the best thing for him.


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#328083 15/02/06 02:37 PM
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You mean sets for particular professions ? Sounds interesting ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

It's a bit like in Sacred ... There are sets in it which can be worn only by certain types of characters ...

Another possibility would be to let the sets allow for all characters, but some characters/professions receive more bonusses (boni) for them than others. Like an elven set woulod give an Elf more boni than a human mage or so.

Another thing I found highly interesting was - to follow that trail <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> - to give skills to a type of character that this character couldn't get otherwise.

But I think this goes too much into the direction of Sacred ... I don't know what Larian has actually planned ...



All Things should be able to used by ALL characters, just some bonusses or penalties would be good


#328084 15/02/06 06:32 PM
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I agree with the set thing.

Initially i would have sets for the most popular professions.

But now i think it should be similar to the sacrifice the dagger,swords and necklace.

Let me explain.

You will find a unique item for each armour slot.
i.e you find a boots,legggins,rings e.t.c.(and a two handed weapon as well as a one handed weapon and shield)

Like the above <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> quest you wont be able to wear them yet.

You go to the head of the three main classes i.e

Alrik for fighters
Rob for theives
Zandalor for mages

When you go there the head will ask
"which 3-4 items would you like to form the set?"

You choose the 3/4 items and indicate(if you choose the weapon what type of weapon you want).

The head will then ask what class you want..

Here you can choose barbarian/Paladin/knight for fighters
Wizards/necromacers/elementalist/druid for mages and
Assassins/thieves/bards/rogues.

The head will ask you to wait for one day.

Of course if you dont like the set stats you can reload. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

#328085 15/02/06 07:47 PM
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Bards ? Sounds interesting ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> I remember some special instruments in Wizardry 8 and in some (A)D&D games ...


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
#328086 15/02/06 09:15 PM
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If you are going to have a special changeable set, the holy item sacrifice would not be the best template, IMNSHO. The set pieces could be inscribed with runes, which vary the bonuses based on how they are arranged, and could be usable as soon as you find them (though with relatively poor stats). Aligning the runes could require some rare item to limit how many times they can be changed. Perhaps certain NPCs early in the game would be able to partially decipher the runes and give you modest bonuses, while specific higher level NPCs could discern more subtle patterns possible, to give different or additional bonuses.

Perhaps the types of bonuses could be selectable (ie geared to various class types), while the magnitude of the bonus might be based on your reputation or level. A paladin class set could have large bonuses to healing skills or attacks against undead, but drop quickly with any unethical act. A thief set could offer sneak or thieving bonuses based on your reputation among thieves (ie how much you have stolen and from whom).

Aligning all pieces of the set to the same class might give an additional enhancement, or maybe some rune patters (class types) could only be achieved using all set pieces at once (you can mix and match thieves' gauntlets and a mage's helmet, but the elf marksman's archer set of piercing retribution is only available as a complete set).

#328087 15/02/06 09:35 PM
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A few days ago I had a rather weird idea :

We all know the rune-words from Blizzard. They enhance weapons.

I don't like "borrowing" ideas, but changing might not be bad. So I distorted this concept a bit : Why not develop things that act - put together - like rune words, but with the difference that they affect not the weapon or armor, but instead the body ?

Magic woven into runes (Rivellon pendant : Charms) : A combination of charms affects the body, for example a certain combination makes a character stronger. Nothing else. Spiritual bonusses (boni) could be good as well (for example spiritual resistance against spells, or spiritual enhancement for speaking spells - would imply that a certain spell has a kind of "level" needed by its weaver or it cannot be spoken - in other words : The speaker must reach/have a certain level of spiritual strength to be able to speak or weave a spell - the more complex the spell, the higher the level of spiritual strengh needed should be).

The difference from Blizzard would be that it doesn't effect objects (armor, equipent), but the body/mind. I think that would be fairly new.

Such a difference - body made stronger - should imho be visible in the display of the character, then. And when the charm is taken off, the body should "shrink" then, again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

A single charm of that sort should give a bonus, then, but a special combination should give a special (set of) bonus. One bigger bonus or a combination ofd several bonusses (boni).

That's my thought. I hope I didn't write it too complicated. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Alrik


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
#328088 15/02/06 10:32 PM
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hmm.. that sounds pretty nice <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


#328089 16/02/06 12:28 AM
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[color:"orange"]I don't like "borrowing" ideas[/color]

Final Fantasy VII had 'charms' (materia) before Diablo, and there were more than likely earlier games with the same general concept.


Your idea for charms could be introduced in DD2 without resorting to a rune word analogy. For example, a struggling or lazy apprentice mage could complete creating a charm but not seal it properly. Since there were no apparent issues with a single charm, they took the same shortcut again, but they (or their master) found that the charms interfered with each other when brought in close contact (either the in same piece of equipment, or on the same person). The interference from the charms' magical energy fields could produce either positive or negative effects on creatures in close contact with them (your character).

The charm system would have to be relatively elaborate to begin with to make such a secondary effect worth the effort. There would either need to be several different categories of charms (so various combinations would conflict, be neutral or complimentary) or only special combinations of charms would have an appreciable effect (similar to Diablo's rune words). In the former case, mixing unsealed water and fire charms could decrease the effect of both, while unsealed earth and fire charms might give a strength bonus. If unsealed charms were weaker than their sealed counterparts (which seams reasonable), then multiple unsealed charms of the same type could be more effective than they would be added up individually.

Alternately, perhaps the charm slots could be what normally seals the charm's energy, so there would be no need to have sealed or unsealed charms. The equipment itself might determine if charms can interfere with each other. This would simplify charm availability (though you could also have mages capable of sealing or unsealing a charm for a fee), but restrict the use of the 'rune word' type interference effect.


[color:"orange"]The difference from Blizzard would be that it doesn't effect objects (armor, equipent), but the body/mind.[/color]

Part of what I described above assumes that the charms can also effect each other, which may or may not be desirable or worth the effort to implement and balance. Just having certain special combinations of charms would probably be easier to implement, though might appear to be a blatant copy from Diablo.

#328090 16/02/06 03:06 AM
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@Raze
"Set Alignment" => "More Bonus" is really cool (like the Dragon Set in BD).

I would like a full set (a weapon, 2/4 rings, armor, leggings, boots and helmet etc.) for the player's profession. Like a beastmater should have a mace and everything else (every equipment to fill in all the slots) so that he gets a complete set bonus.

However I don't wan't one person to just give it. The Beastmaster should acquire each peace one by one by himself after traveling far and wide. Of the Beastmaster will seek out every other set in the game (like the one meant for a ranger etc.), but only to sell it later on.


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#328091 16/02/06 09:47 AM
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<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

#328092 16/02/06 01:08 PM
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Wazzz's Interview

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Gamecloud - Other than games you worked on that were released this year, what video or PC game released in 2005 was your favorite and why?

Martijn Holtkamp - World of Warcraft. Iíve played this game to tears. Blizzard has made the best MMO game of all time, hands down. The sheer workmanship and detail that has gone (and is still going) into this title elevate it to game of the year and best MMO of all time.


I haven't played WoW but I played Warcraft III - Frozen Throne. I didn't like the game much. First of all, it's not a true RPG at all. Some stages require more strategy (like Age of Mythology) than 'Role Playing' as a hero. Secondly (for the stages where your hero is really doing something), the next place to go is very obvious... there are no virtually choices (your path is lined by trees etc.)... it's like go there... then go therse and your quest is done.

Dungeon Seige 2 is much the same. However, I must say that DS2's graphics was rather engaging with its:
1. changing camera angles
2. zooming options
3. seemless tranisition between various worlds (even while teleporting)
Although sometimes there were problems with restricted camera angles near the horizontal. I would have liked the camera to zoom all the way upto hero's shoulder, so that I may see (where the sky meets the earth <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />) what the hero <should>/<is able to> see.

We are discussing desirable traits of a game to make it a better RPG. And as Wazzz has pointed out, it is important for the game to look good. Details matter to many people (others like me may still play Avernum 3... because of the story <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />). Game builders should also keep in mind that the "view" control should be fully functional with high efficiency (and desirably no bugs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />)


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#328093 16/02/06 01:28 PM
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Hm, I didn't know that interview ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for the link !

- Warcraft is a strategy game, isn't ist ? So I don't *expect* role playing there ...

- A new Patch ( heard about a few days ago gives the game finally a "weather system". Or so I read.

- An awkward thing are camera angles that disturb more than help. Let's imagine a 3D platform game where you cannot exactly figure out wether you'll hit the next platform or not because the camera angle doesn't allow an exact view on that ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

@ Raze : That idea of chams interfering with one another sounds comlicated, but also sounds like fun ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by AlrikFassbauer; 16/02/06 01:29 PM.

When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
#328094 16/02/06 02:38 PM
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What a dumb [nocando] interviewer...he didnt ask anything about a next gen game of Larian <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohh.gif" alt="" />


#328095 16/02/06 03:26 PM
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congratulations Wallace on finding the interview!

As this was a general interview about the games industry and the developments of 2005 in general there is nothing in there about any games that we are working on.

#328096 16/02/06 04:28 PM
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But WAzzz....(on cartman but mom voice) The whole world is about divinity...*sniff* no? thats a bad kitty! respect my authoriteeh!

p.s. sorry...im on drudanae...


#328097 16/02/06 04:37 PM
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[color:"orange"] congratulations Wallace on finding the interview!
[/color]
What do you know... Google is perfect! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

I was focusing on the part where you praise the workmanship of the game (it's obvious for you notice that... having to do with those things yourself. Don't be afraid to use pixel shaders in next game. Those of us who haven't upgraded our video cards yet will do it for your next game <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). I feel that workmanship gives the appeal required to get the gamers attention at the first sight. Later on it just offers a comfortable gameplay. Nevertheless, it can't be neglected in any case.

BTW I would prefer DD over Warcraft anyday.


Hail Divinity!
#328098 18/02/06 05:18 PM
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Bards: In my view bards are not just good at talking but can also entertain/seduce/reduce prices and have a good knowlegde of lore.

So they have skills which include:

Entertaining - In a npc friendly group you can sing/storytell. The higher the skill the more elaborate your tales are..the more money you get afterwards.
Bartering - reduce prices obviously.
Conversing - Opens up more dialogue options and maybe gets you free items and hints as to how to solve quests, you can even reach a non-combat ending to quests where you might have to kill a monster.
Sooth - Allows you to play an instrument..this allows some nearby hostile creatures not to attack for a period of time. Will allow you to sneak past or take on fewer enemies.
Commanding - Allows you to attract followers or npc's who will fight for you.
Lore - Deciphering runes/foriegn words and some items become automatic.

So if you cast sooth and then commanding you will get a a permanent npc to join you who was previously evil.

#328099 19/02/06 03:07 AM
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Now that sounds like a new profession idea in the game.

Actually brads are very effective in real life <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />


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