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#60802 09/05/03 07:23 AM
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So, what do you think ? To be or not to be ?

Many many people like using two axes or two swords or whatever 1h weapons they
choose. Should it be implemented in DD2?

Should this be specific class ability ? like warriors another special move which can be unlocked by doing this and this, or just skill, like shield expertise.

Pls, share thoughts.


"Endure. In enduring, grow strong." -Githzerai adage.
#60803 09/05/03 08:31 AM
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I think it would be good to have such an option. But it is not very necessary and doing this can be hard because they should also implement some skills for dual-wielders. (Like "Frenzy" in DII.)

#60804 09/05/03 08:38 AM
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Hmm, maybe you right. They could even think of some new skills for DW, unique for DD2. And and together with critical strikes it could be very very deadly <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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#60805 09/05/03 10:07 AM
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how about it is a skill so anyone can use it and at level one you can dule wheild daggers and then at level two you could dule wheild one handed swords, at level 3 you could dule wheild one handed axes(maybe maces, they might be lighter in real life), for level 4 you could dule wheild maces one handed ones, and then for level 5 maybe something like you could also dule wheild sheilds as whell as two swords or daggers or axes or maces.. Thisway you could get a double attack+defence bonus! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


A shadow, A movement Is all you Shall see, When the icy, Cold grip of death, Holds you and brings you into, The world of, The dead -by Kel Dar
#60806 09/05/03 10:38 AM
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Hmm Keldar, actually usually character specs in one mastery only. So, if I use daggers then I need DW 1 and not more?


I think that raising DW should raise % of hitting with left hand weapon. So, that means lvl 1 - you have, lets say, 10% chance to hit with 2 weapons, and also it should probably increase speed, but this maybe implemented by another skill.
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#60807 09/05/03 10:44 AM
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yeah your probly right, or you could have each as a different skill with yopur idea tacked on so it would also increse the % chance to hit. That might work but then you would have to add a whole new area for the warrior and then to balence it you would have to add a new skill bunch to the other 2 classes. Wait even better, you could have a new class called (insert name here), and that class could have the dule wheild skills and other new skills! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


A shadow, A movement Is all you Shall see, When the icy, Cold grip of death, Holds you and brings you into, The world of, The dead -by Kel Dar
#60808 09/05/03 10:49 AM
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Dual-wield should be awailable for all!
Like in skill form or in special ability! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


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#60809 09/05/03 10:55 AM
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what I ment was that a few of the new classe's skills would be the duel weild and so anyone could use them if they wanted! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


A shadow, A movement Is all you Shall see, When the icy, Cold grip of death, Holds you and brings you into, The world of, The dead -by Kel Dar
#60810 09/05/03 11:03 AM
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Hmm Keldar is right.
In DAOC only assassins (classes, speccing on stealth, crit. strikes and applying poison to weapons) were able to use DW.

Sure, this should be very thoroughly studied and ballanced, as there are very many possibilities.


"Endure. In enduring, grow strong." -Githzerai adage.
#60811 09/05/03 09:36 PM
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Well, in accordance with a possible 3rd edition D&D ruleset, maybe DD2 could have dual wield feats available (to all?) but also require you to place skill points in varying levels of ambidexterity to outweigh any penalty to your 'to-hit' incurred by dual wielding.

I'm a big fan of the 3e rules, lots of fun combinations possible; the more I get into the realm of diablo'dom and generic skills that enable a character to kill everything that moves in a couple hits, the more I become turned off and bored.

#60812 09/05/03 10:22 PM
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Perhaps they need a new skill:
____________________________________________________________

Ambidexterity

Train you off-hand in combat, allowing you to arm two weapons more proficiently. Your Strength/Agility must be geater than the total Strength/Agility requirements of both weapons.

Level 0: Two-weapon combat suffers a -75% Offence penalty.
Level 1: Two-weapon combat suffers a -60% Offence penalty.
Level 2: Two-weapon combat suffers a -45% Offence penalty.
Level 3: Two-weapon combat suffers a -30% Offence penalty.
Level 4: Two-weapon combat suffers a -15% Offence penalty.
Level 5: Two-weapon combat suffers no Offence penalty.
____________________________________________________________

This will allow anyone to wield two weapons, given they are skilled enough, but also make it harder for them to hit as they are not used to it.

#60813 09/05/03 11:39 PM
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Nice proposed table <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If, however, dual wielding were to follow the general rule of yielding just 1 extra attack per round, 5 skill points could be a steep investment for that extra attack with no penalties.

I'm not suggesting anything more than 1 extra attack per round (ie, overpowered diablo-like skills), but possibly the ambidexterity skill could be changed/abused to not only eliminate any penalties incurred while dual wielding but also give a [very] slight bonus at high levels such as levels 4,5. Perhaps a 10% bonus to base 'THACO' at level 5.

#60814 10/05/03 04:00 AM
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Dual wielding is a good idea. The skill level would have to depend on your character level to prevent one from being 'god' like at to low a level.

#60815 11/05/03 10:44 PM
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Nice proposed table <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If, however, dual wielding were to follow the general rule of yielding just 1 extra attack per round, 5 skill points could be a steep investment for that extra attack with no penalties.

Remember that you receive two attacks instead giving you twice as much chance to hit. The bonuses start stacking nicely at level 2 or 3.
____________________________________________________________

Ambidexterity

Train you off-hand in combat, allowing you to arm two weapons more proficiently. Your Strength/Agility must be geater than the total Strength/Agility requirements of both weapons.

Level 0: -75% Offence penalty = -50% overall.
Level 1: -60% Offence penalty = -20% overall.
Level 2: -45% Offence penalty = +10% overall.
Level 3: -30% Offence penalty = +40% overall.
Level 4: -15% Offence penalty = +70% overall.
Level 5: No Offence penalty = +100% overall.
____________________________________________________________

#60816 12/05/03 02:43 AM
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Aye, in those circumstances, it would seem a grrat ability. I'm not sure if Divinity uses typical D&D defined rounds so I'm in muddy waters; however, if it did, and your character were to be rated at having 2 1/2 attacks per round, adding +1 attack to that to make it 3 1/2 would balance things more evenly in the long run.

Nonetheless, if there is no concept of 'round' in the game beyond a recuperation time, then what we're really trying to comprehend with ambidexterity is not another attack, but a faster attack speed, ie, a lesser recuperation time. Follow me? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

So maybe,

Ambidexterity
level 1: recuperation time -10% (lvl 1)
level 2: recuperation time -20% (lvl 5)
level 3: recuperation time -30% (lvl 10)
level 4: recuperation time -40% (lvl 15)
level 5: recuperation time -50% (lvl 20)

This is dependent on the engine being able to handle decimal-like numbers for a recuperation time, of course, for weapons that already have low speed numbers.

Your offensive rating, I think, shouldn't be further enhanced with any skills, beyond those found in the warrior's skill tables for separate weapon types. So, for instance, you would have to make a big investment of points if you wanted to not only enhance your offense for a sword, but also bring a mace into your other hand and use it with a similarly raised offensive rating.


Edit: i just read over my post and realized this wouldn't be dependant on using a second weapon <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> But... anyway, the concept still holds true for a skill to increase attack speed, lol.



Last edited by Marmaduke; 12/05/03 02:47 AM.
#60817 12/05/03 03:38 AM
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I was thinking of Ambidexterity in terms of Diablo 2. You swing twice, once with each hand. The weapons act with the worse Recuperation Time (eg. Using a fast sword and and slow axe, they would both have the Recuperation Time of the axe.) One of the swings happens in between the others. So timing wise, it's a bit like:

One weapon: Swing, wait, swing, wait, swing, wait...
Two weapons: Left, right, left, right, left, right...

Simply by weilding a second weapon, which anyone strong enough can do, you get twice as many attacks in the same Recuperation Time, but without training you're so uncoordinated that you can't hit anything. Your Offence is never improved by this skill, only your Recuperation Time. Your Offence is penalised without training.

Character Level or Attribute restrictions would definately be required for this skill, as with any other.

#60818 21/05/03 04:24 PM
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i think Dual Wield could be for assasins, they mostly shown with 2 weapons on pictures, so it could be nice for assasins tho, together with poisoning and assasin's kiss could be nice <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

#60819 11/06/03 05:23 AM
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Yes! Finally make thieves worth something! Make each class (warrior, mage, survivor) have more than 1 special attacks, and perhaps make dual-wielding thieves' special attack. Warriors and mages can also dual-wield, but at a much greater penalty than thieves. Ohhh that would be sweet! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

#60820 11/06/03 08:38 AM
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Yes! Finally make thieves worth something! Make each class (warrior, mage, survivor) have more than 1 special attacks, and perhaps make dual-wielding thieves' special attack.


Good idea. Who sayd DD2 should have just one special move for every class?
Ok, even further, what if there are more, but have to be unlocked in the course of the game by raising attributes or skills to certain point?

Just an example to explain what I have written.

Thief's special move dual-wield can be unlocked by raising dex to 60.

Or it can be a skill that will be right next to shield expertise, or even instead of shield expertise and available to thief class only.


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#60821 11/06/03 11:15 AM
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YEa,They should do it in DD2 but only for thieves.Mages can cast powerfull spells, warriors like me need no more than big sword and heavy shield.Give it to thieves!!!

But from the other side I'd likee to some mage running around an waving with two heavy axes <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />


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