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#341512 08/04/07 05:27 PM
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My 2 cents:

1. I should be able to see where the sky meets the earth... in the game. I want the game to be very beautiful looking. Don't ever make the game dark and dull looking. I don't care if Larian goes for DirectX 10 this time.

2. As requested earlier... SDK please. Can't imagine what kind of stuff Raze et all will do with it.

3. Consider making it turn based... (my friend already said it). Ever played Avernum 3 or Heros of Might and Magic... or Civilization.. Turn based ain't so bad if you know how to go about it. But it may be a bad idea in 3rd person 3D game view.

4. Armor set: Please include some really exciting quest to find some armor sets. Also put in some quests for finding mythological weapons of great power... spear of Achillies or something.

5. Extreme leveling: Character should be able to level up like anything... plus they should be really professionals in whatever they do. for e.g. Hunter should be able to snipe a huge monster without even being seen... in one shot, and a mage should be able to cast a meteor-shower to level a mountain etc...(OK this one got to far <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />)

6. Music: As far as music is concerned.. try using violin and drums. They are heart rendering.. often.

I read quite a few lists before putting mine here. Hope this helps

Thanks and Regards
Wallace

EDIT: PS
7. Party: If Larian goes for Partying with NPC like stuff... please make sure that are level-uppable and controllable too. Also if they decide to make of them as main characters lover etc... make sure that the experiance (dialogue and interaction stuff) is orgasmic <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Wallace; 08/04/07 05:43 PM.

Hail Divinity!
#341513 08/05/07 06:15 PM
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Hey guys

I,m thinking about building your own weapons. Let me give an example. Take as example a sword. Brake this sword in three parts. First you got the handle, the protection part between the handle and the blad and then the blade itself.

Every part has he's ability. (example Handle = agility +5, 2nd part = armor + 7 and blad = strength + 12).

There are diffrent types of abilty

strength = attack power
Agilty = Attack speed
stamina = increase health
armor = defend power
intellect = magic attack power
spirit = increase mana

Know give the player the chance to construct there own unique swords. If a player wants to create a fully strength weapon or an defend weapon. He or she can choose for themself.

Regards

Joris



"Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth."
~ Buddha
#341514 08/05/07 11:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
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In the game Evil Islands, equipment and spells could be custom made, similar to your suggestion. For equipment you need a blueprint and material (some of which you collect from defeated opponents), and you can deconstruct existing non-unique items and reform them with different spells or better material. Spells start with the basic magic type, and you can add runes to increase the effect / duration / range or decrease the mana requirements. Each rune has a certain complexity that adds to the base spell value, and the characters' stats/skills determine how complex a spell they can use, while the type of equipment and material used determines what spells can be placed in equipment.


Welcome to the forum. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

#341515 09/05/07 10:51 AM
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I have heard of a similar thing in the game "Kult".


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
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#341516 09/05/07 01:01 PM
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Kult: Heretic Kingdoms? Not really... Seal Of Evil does, though.

K:HK is about attuning your equipment, and a very good & unique system it is, too <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SoE has an item construction system based on the traditional Chinese elements (Earth, Fire, Wood, Metal & Water). The better diagram you have and the more experienced you are with it, the better the items you can make. Assuming you have the right bits, of course <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Welcome to the forum, Vervekke <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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#341517 09/05/07 03:29 PM
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I have never heard of "Seal of Evil".


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
#341518 09/05/07 04:18 PM
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Alrik - it was never really a popular game, and is probably quite hard to find, now. It's basically a party-based Diablo clone, and towards the end gets very same-ish and rather tedious as a result, but it's not without its charm.


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#341519 09/05/07 04:23 PM
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Hi guys <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> new here

I saw some great posts & ideas and i agree with all of them.... but i dont recall seeing a post where it was suggested adding pets to the game (fighting pets :P). Also, pls lar guys dont make DD 2 with so many stats like in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> . I think that the combination of stats made in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> was absolutely perfect ( no initiative, speed, luck and all those resistances bone, water, shadow etc). <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> is my fav game and id really like to see the sequel similar to it.

PS: I did thou like the crystal bag in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> and i think that some unique features like that and the TP stones should be added in DD2 . Sry bout my english.....

#341520 09/05/07 06:38 PM
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Welcome, mmiskov <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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#341521 04/07/07 06:44 AM
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Hello everyone! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" /> I would like to make a wish too.

Namely that the game would not include earth, air and water resistances. I am not opposed to groups of spells carrying those names, but I would much prefer it if tornadoes, earthquakes and tidal waves all dealt types of physical damage. I think that having "water based" as a spell quality is a nice feature, but unless I am roleplaying a fire elemental, sludge monster or soap golem, that quality shouldn't affect me. Requiring protection against a shaman's raindance just seems queer to me.

Oh, and if there will be flying with keys for acceleration and tilting in four directions then since we are to be using wings I would also like having an airbrake key for when you don't want to crash into something (like the ground).

#341522 04/07/07 08:25 AM
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Welcome to the forum! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />


I am in blood
Stepp'd in so far, that, should I wade no more,
Returning were as tedious as go o'er.
#341523 04/07/07 10:24 AM
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[color:"orange"]that quality shouldn't affect me[/color]

Those damage types do affect various opponents differently, though, so it makes sense to have a resistance value to describe the relative vulnerability to each elemental attack (it has to be there in some form, though it could be partly hidden for your character). In principle you could have these spells doing physical damage, but with a damage bonus (or penalty) based on the type of opponent. Either way you would effectively have the same situation, but using resistances is easier than adding an additional combat subsystem for certain types of spells.

Also, though this is more of a conceptual problem, elemental damage may not exactly correspond to physical damage for all types of armour. Full plate offers better protection than leather for crushing, slashing and piercing damage, but if a water spell floods an area deeper than the character's height, or turns the ground to mud, I'd much rather be wearing the leather. A silk robe would be much better protection against a cold wind than a cotton robe, but they may offer similar protection against physical damage types. It is unlikely the combat system will get this intricate, though, since these are relatively minor influences, for the most part.

Earth spells could just do crushing damage; pretty much anything resistant or vulnerable to a rock will be affected similarly by any blunt weapon. However, a water based creature may be much more affected by sand or dirt than other creatures with similar physical resistances. If earth damage were to be eliminated (without adding damage modifiers based on the opponent), there would need to be restrictions on the types of earth spells available or on the creatures in the game, so that damage to all opponents was reasonable and made sense.


[color:"orange"]Requiring protection against a shaman's raindance just seems queer to me.[/color]

Not if the water is ice cold, or it is acid rain. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

#341524 04/07/07 11:17 AM
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Welcome, Point <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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#341525 04/07/07 11:39 AM
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soap golem


Interesting ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> The high prestige item for any mage or aristocrat ...

"My soap golem always prepares my bath for me".

Brothels could gain positive effects from them as well ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
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#341526 07/07/07 09:55 PM
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Quote

Those damage types do affect various opponents differently, though, so it makes sense to have a resistance value to describe the relative vulnerability to each elemental attack (it has to be there in some form, though it could be partly hidden for your character). In principle you could have these spells doing physical damage, but with a damage bonus (or penalty) based on the type of opponent. Either way you would effectively have the same situation, but using resistances is easier than adding an additional combat subsystem for certain types of spells.


Agreed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> In that case using resistances for the job would make humans have an extremely high resistance against both water and earth, uhm, damage; since being in contact with either of the substances is by itself not harmful for us. Partly hiding these stats for humans would make sense to me. It occurs to me, though, that even such a sistem would not be well suited to describe how boiling water will cause burns on a human, but deal cold damage to a fire elemental. Introducing a partly hidden temperature stat for each water based spell would be taking the whole issue too far... In the end I would just like the resistance system to make sense like in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" />. I haven't played <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" />, so I don't actually know how the elemental issues are handeled there, but I have yet to see a game which includes "elemental" resistances and makes them work in the way described by Raze. Where they have a water resistance stat it is plain normal for humans to take water damage from certain spells. If the rain spell is actually supposed to be acid rain or nitrogen rain, then IMNHO the game should include acid and cold resistances instead.

As for the additional combat subsystem- let me make a separate wish from that. I would like to see a magic system in which it is not overly simple to judge the true value of a spell. Some properties could be kept hidden and would only be revealed to the player if the character learns enough about the magic type or particular spell in question. If fatigue causes –3 to agility and web causes –3 to both agility and dexterity then the web spell is a simply superior in terms of effect. If a spell system is easy to dissect and understand in under half an hour that degrades fatigue from a potentially useful power at your disposal to a simple –3 agi debuff as you know exactly what you can expect from the spell in this battle system. Yet if it you were to find out that it is possible to counter web with a wind attack; tearing it or even blowing it into someone else, then you would suddenly all see spells in a different light; it could reduce prejudice towards spells based on numbers and encourage experimentation. While the "web" example would be hard to code, it may be easier to add some different "special" properties to various basic spells (which might then later be custumizeable in certain ways like in <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" />). Adding "sound based" to a mind-controlling song could make it susceptible to some wind spells, etc. The risks in setting up such a system, though, are to miss something gamebreaking and more oppurtunities for bugs. A "deep" spell system would really be a nice feature, as long as it doesn't make a mess of the game.

#341527 08/07/07 06:42 AM
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[color:"orange"]being in contact with either of the substances is by itself not harmful for us.[/color]

That depends on the contact. Most humans have a relatively low resistance against water if it is completely covering their nose and mouth. Water focused through a small area under high pressure can cut through rock. Larger volumes of water can stun or knock you over (ie firehose used on rioters) and if fast enough can break bones, etc (ie someone falling off a high bridge). A bucket of water dumped on your head isn't going to do much, but if you were hit with the same amount of water fired by an air cannon, it could be fatal (you'd definitely feel it, anyway). Also, since the human body is more than half water, anything that can manipulate water directly (move, stop, heat, cool, etc) has the potential to do a lot of damage.

Most water spells are not going to have tsunami-like volumes of water, but even just switching to cold water greatly increases the damage capacity, since it can rapidly drop body temperature, tax endurance and make it much harder to defend against whatever else the water is doing, or whatever other attacks are being directed towards you. Fall overboard from a ship in the arctic circle and (without special survival gear on) your life expectancy is measured in minutes. The same fall into waters near the equator and you have a great way to cool off and a short distraction from swabbing the decks. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> You could convert water spells to conventional damage and then possibly a cold damage bonus or a slow or stamina drain effect, but this would restrict the type of water spells you could have.

Freezing the water adds more possibilities for damage, since different shapes and consistencies of ice could do crushing, piercing or slashing damage. Except for cold damage or effects, most ice spells would be easier to convert to a non-resistance form than water spells.
Even with water spells, that wouldn't have to be the direct cause of damage; water (in the form of a ball, fog, pool, etc) could be used to support a summoned water creature that could attack (possibly doing poison or conventional damage, etc).


Earth magic could range from earthquakes to ripping boulders out of the ground (and hurling them at opponents) to blinding sandstorms, so it isn't hard to see how it could do damage. There is less earth in the human body than water, though, so there is less potential for damage inherently due to earth or from magic that can manipulate earth. You could consider any solid tissues in the body (or at least bones) to be associated with earth, though, and therefore at least somewhat vulnerable to earth magic directly.


[color:"orange"]even such a sistem would not be well suited to describe how boiling water will cause burns on a human, but deal cold damage to a fire elemental.[/color]

Thermodynamics explains this quit well, though. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

In one of Aesop's fables a Satyr invites a lost man to spend the night in his cave. After entering, the man blows on his hands to warm them up. At dinner, the man blows on his soup to cool it off. After hearing both explanations, the Satyr kicks the man out of the cave, saying he wants nothing to do with a creature that can blow hot and cold with the same breath.



[color:"orange"]Where they have a water resistance stat it is plain normal for humans to take water damage from certain spells.[/color]

Either you call the damage done by water based spells water damage, or you use the closest single or combination of conventional damage types, and add extra modifiers to these spells for opponents that are inherently either vulnerable or resistant to water. However, elemental damage is still not going to match up perfectly with conventional damage, so getting rid of water resistance for humans is going to cause other inconsistencies or restrict water based spells.

A spell that causes ice crystals to form in your blood is going to do a lot of piercing damage, but no conventional armour is going to make a difference, regardless of how well it protects against spears and arrows. However, magic does exist in the game, so you can have some magical control over the water in your body, or (more realistically) some way to counter the spell effect surrounding you. A resistance to water magic may be an aura surrounding you which interferes with an opponent's water magic, reducing the force of the spell or its precision.


You seem to have a problem with water, earth and air damage because real humans are not inherently vulnerable to these elements. However, Rivelon is a land of magic, where humans can learn to control the elements. With control comes the ability to at least partly counter spells based on these elements, either inherently or using an enchanted object (charms, crystals, or armour bonuses). Short of some twitch based combat system where you have to actively cast a counter spell, an elemental resistance for humans seams reasonable to me. The damage done by an element may or may not be directly due to the element itself, but the defense against such a spell could inherently depend on the nature of the element.


Of course both the spell and resistance descriptions in the game needed to be worded properly. If resistances are explained in a way consistent with the game world they will seem natural. On the other hand, just having spells that do a certain type of damage and a corresponding resistance could seem artificial.


[color:"orange"]A "deep" spell system would really be a nice feature, as long as it doesn't make a mess of the game.[/color]

Agreed.

#341528 08/07/07 04:51 PM
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LOL well I think you have just been (very Diplomatically) told <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />
Good one Raze <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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#341529 09/07/07 07:25 AM
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[color:"orange"]Good one Raze[/color]
Ya, that turned out well considering I only thought of half of it as I was typing. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />


While I don't have a problem with elemental resistances, I also don't particularly care if they are included in the next gen game or not. If they are, they could be described and explained a little better than in BD (where some of the skills' designs seemed a little artificial).

#341530 10/07/07 12:37 AM
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[color:"orange"]being in contact with either of the substances is by itself not harmful for us.[/color]

That depends on the contact. Most humans have a relatively low resistance against water if it is completely covering their nose and mouth. Water focused through a small area under high pressure can cut through rock. Larger volumes of water can stun or knock you over (ie firehose used on rioters) and if fast enough can break bones, etc (ie someone falling off a high bridge). A bucket of water dumped on your head isn't going to do much, but if you were hit with the same amount of water fired by an air cannon, it could be fatal (you'd definitely feel it, anyway). Also, since the human body is more than half water, anything that can manipulate water directly (move, stop, heat, cool, etc) has the potential to do a lot of damage.

Most of what you're talking about there isn't water damage. Water entering the body is drowning damage, perhaps the closest thing humans have to water damage. Water cutting a rock is pressure or tearing damage. Being hit with a water cannon is impact damage. Falling into water is also impact damage, only less so than hitting solid ground. Water, while not solid, is still substansially more dense than air, hence it's like being hit with a relatively soft, but very large club.

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You could convert water spells to conventional damage and then possibly a cold damage bonus or a slow or stamina drain effect, but this would restrict the type of water spells you could have.

That makes more sense. Combined with other ideas, water is no longer a damage type, but a set of spells that can cause a range of damage types: impact/bludgeoning (water cannon), peircing (ice splinters), cold (ice), heat (steam), acid (acid rain), slowing (drench)... Spells for creating and clearing fog extend the magic beyond simple combat. Water magic become highly versatile instead of only "does water damage."

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Earth magic could range from earthquakes to ripping boulders out of the ground (and hurling them at opponents) to blinding sandstorms, so it isn't hard to see how it could do damage. There is less earth in the human body than water, though, so there is less potential for damage inherently due to earth or from magic that can manipulate earth.

Again, forget the cause and look at the impact. Hit by a rock: impact/bludgeoning damage. Stuck in a sandstorm: low visibility, choking, slashing damage from razor cuts.

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You seem to have a problem with water, earth and air damage because real humans are not inherently vulnerable to these elements. However, Rivelon is a land of magic, where humans can learn to control the elements. With control comes the ability to at least partly counter spells based on these elements, either inherently or using an enchanted object (charms, crystals, or armour bonuses).

That works. Having resistance to a class of spells reduces their effective level. Take Impact Damage Resistance to protect yourself against a range of damage sources, some earth magic, some water magic, some weapons; or take Water Magic Resistance to reduce the effect of all water magic used against you or in your proximity, but not earth magic or weapons. My biggest gripe with Beyond Divinity is the multitude of meaningless elements. Eight or ten damage types and only Poison Damage has any significant difference to them all. The resistance skills seem next to useless. By overlapping the resistances each doesn't feel quite so useless anymore and it adds strategy in selecting your spells.

#341531 12/07/07 03:29 PM
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add a wand and spells where you yell words like "Accio, Aguamenti, Alohomora, Avada Kedavra, Crucio, ..." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/silly.gif" alt="" />

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