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Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensang? #365397
13/07/09 12:07 AM
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Chudinho Offline OP
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Hello. I became interested in this game since there are too few decent RPGs being released this year. But by the looks of it, it reminds me more of Drakensang then Baldurs Gate type game, which is a setback for me. I never played first Divine Divinity and i'm not going to since reviews say that its far from being as serious in roleplaying as Bioware games. This game positions itself more seriously in FAQs, but screenshots of dialogues show only yes-no sentences and that worries me. So, have we finally found a rival studio to Bioware or will this game be just a Drakensang with better graphics? Any hints what to expect?

Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Chudinho] #365400
13/07/09 05:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Chudinho
Hello. I became interested in this game since there are too few decent RPGs being released this year. But by the looks of it, it reminds me more of Drakensang then Baldurs Gate type game, which is a setback for me. I never played first Divine Divinity and i'm not going to since reviews say that its far from being as serious in roleplaying as Bioware games. This game positions itself more seriously in FAQs, but screenshots of dialogues show only yes-no sentences and that worries me. So, have we finally found a rival studio to Bioware or will this game be just a Drakensang with better graphics? Any hints what to expect?


jawdrop
Don't be fooled by those reviews that say Divine Divinity is a Diablo clone. DD is awesome game and is realy worth playing.

Ok, I don't know what this Drakensang looks like but I can asure You that Divinity II will be one of those rare games with deep story and true RPG style.

Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Wishmaster] #365401
13/07/09 06:24 AM
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Quote
So, have we finally found a rival studio to Bioware or will this game be just a Drakensang with better graphics? Any hints what to expect?


Why this need to match up Divinity II with some other game? The game it will probably be most like (at least in terms of dialogue, which seems to be your measuring stick for an RPG) is Divinity I, which is fantastic.

It's unlike the Bioware games in terms of not having a party-based gameplay, other than that, everything I've read about Div II suggests nuanced dialogues, multiple quest outcomes, etc.

What's wrong with Drakensang anyways?

Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: flixerflax] #365403
13/07/09 06:57 AM
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I highly doubt this game could even be a "challenge" to Bioware; just look at how international websites speak plenty and lengthy of Dragon Age and Mass effect 2, but rarely mention Divinity 2. Just stating a fact here (besides, I do not feel much sympathy for Bioware's marketing choices - geeze, have you ever visited the Dragon Age forums and saw how they mostly talk only about sex scenes and virtual romances? smirk Feels like it's an erotic game, not an rpg.... ).

I too don't know much how Divinity 2's story and gameplay work out - I wish the developers showed us more of that. But I don't care, since in a few weeks the german version will be released, and supposedly some nice german player will post his or her impressions in these forums, and so I'll FINALLY know if Divinity 2 is more like Fable 2 or more like Oblivion or more like Neverwinter Nights 2 or else....

Drakensang is a nice game, what's wrong with it? My only big gripe about that game, is how you're basically forced to stay in a certain area for each chapter, which I found to be very limitating (for example, I wanted to go fetch the nazilooking elf dude as my henchman, but I found out I'm allowed to go in that area only by the end of the game. What's the point in that?)




"I draghi sono draghi proprio perchť gli uomini non possono nulla contro di loro."
Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Lun-Sei Sleidee] #365414
13/07/09 10:59 AM
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@ Lun-Sei Sleidee: Nazilooking elf?? lol... never thought of that when I saw him eek

@ Topic: Well, most certainly Div 2 will have no great similarities with BG. It's not party-based, it's not DnD, it's not quasi-turn-based and of course it's not in isometric perspective.

Btw, this of course also applies to Drakensang, which was quite similar to BG in this respect(similar PnP system, party-based, quasi-turn-based etc).

If you look for games comparable to Div 2 I think you should expect a game more in line with Morrowind or Oblivion, but perhaps less sandbox-ish and with more humour, not so repetitive dialogues and some unique possibilities (turn into a dragon, mindread etc).

And I think you really cannot compare both companies at all. They are very different in scope, size and budget (presumably).





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Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Ech_Heftag] #365416
13/07/09 11:51 AM
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Well, my problem with Drakensang is that while design and graphics very nice, level of interaction with the world could be much better. I dont have problems with story-based gameplay that gets you kicked from one location to another without choice, but I usually expect that this will be compensated by ability to influence this story. And since i'm Neutral Evil in DnD terms I find it really hard to play a RPG in such strictly good alignment like Drakensang offered. This is general European cliche actually, only CD Project with Witcher managed to break it, German, Russian and other European RPG-makers usually stick to holy crusade theme which is annoying.
As for Oblivion, while I didnt get its style right away and finished it only a year after I bought it preferring to replay BG and KOTOR first, after that I found it quite replayable and enjoyable game. Just sticking to house and stuff collecting, exploring, can be fun as I discovered, but that's not what I look for in RPGs initially.

@Ech_Heftag
Mindread? Thats quite challenging to implement.

Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Chudinho] #365418
13/07/09 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Chudinho
and i'm not going to since reviews say that its far from being as serious in roleplaying as Bioware games.


Ah, another one jumping on the wagon of Bioware's "dark & gritty" role-playing experience ?

Another fan of "the darker the fantasy setting, the better" games ?

No, I doubt that Div2 will be either like Drakensang OR Dragon age - personally, I position it in the middle, so to say.

From my standpoint of view, you're asking the wrong question.

Originally Posted by Chudinho
And since i'm Neutral Evil in DnD terms I find it really hard to play a RPG in such strictly good alignment like Drakensang offered. This is general European cliche actually, only CD Project with Witcher managed to break it, German, Russian and other European RPG-makers usually stick to holy crusade theme which is annoying.


Well, I have read several comments at RPGWatch, whoch calŲled Drakensang "refreshing" BECAUSE of so many "dark & grotty" RPGs nowadays ... I have serious difficulties remembering ANY "good alignment" RPGs in recent times - EVERYTHING tends to be "the darker, the better" nowadays.

In fact, we are getting flooded by dark fantasy settings, and even TDE was influenced so much by dark settings (which you can't see in Drakensang, by the way), that there have been erupted serious discussions whether the current, dark-influenced TDE is still the original, "real" TDE setting ! (TDE = The Dark eye).

Me, I have gained the impression that there are currently 2 groups of people trying to push and influence games into their directions, no mstter whatr other people say :

- gamers who want MP above everything else
- gamers who want a "dark & gritty" game above everything else.

Nowadays, I find myself as being in the minority, because I want SP-only games with a fairy-tale like setting. EVERYINE believes that this is complete crap and must be thrown out immediately !

"The darker, the better" is the current fashion in gaming, and if you manage to tell me 5 role playing games with "good alignment" fairy-tale like settings, you'll get 10 virtual rubber points from me ...

Last edited by AlrikFassbauer; 13/07/09 12:55 PM.

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Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #365425
13/07/09 01:12 PM
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Alrik, I still think you're exaggerating the spread of the grimness in games. It's just a trend in fantasy games just as it is in fantasy novels and movies, but it doesn't dominate. Not even close, I'd say.

Quote
"The darker, the better" is the current fashion in gaming, and if you manage to tell me 5 role playing games with "good alignment" fairy-tale like settings, you'll get 10 virtual rubber points from me ...


Fable
Morrowind
Drakensang
Sacred
Arcanum
Divinity
Siege of Avalon
Silverfall

If by "good alignment" you mean playing good is the only option, then maybe none of these games qualify, and I'd be against that anyway. This is because I like choices and enough games have given me various choices on how to handle situations - it would take a really great game story for me to not care about removing choices.

Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #365426
13/07/09 01:16 PM
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From a new player (like yourself), i have to say that i am playing divine divinity for a week now and i'm loving it.


I only realized the game existed after seeing the D2 preview, and i realized on this forums that there were 2 games previous to this adventure RPG story.

I tried them (even though i had a very hard time geting them bought online) and i'm loving it.

Divine DIvinity is now a very aged game (of course since its very old), but honestly i dont care about the low-tech graphics because the story is AWESOME.

Dont be fooled by the reviews you might have seen (even though a couple reviews out there point Divine Divinity as one of the best RPGs ever). Try it out. DOnt expect a cutting edge graphic, but expect a very compeling story and an amazing soundtrack.


Trust me or not, but in 1 week i was made a fan. Heck, in 1 hour or less i was already a fan.

Good luck.

Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Lun-Sei Sleidee] #365431
13/07/09 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Lun-Sei Sleidee

(besides, I do not feel much sympathy for Bioware's marketing choices - geeze, have you ever visited the Dragon Age forums and saw how they mostly talk only about sex scenes and virtual romances? smirk Feels like it's an erotic game, not an rpg.... ).


My exact thoughts wink About Divinity2, as far as I can see, it can't be compared to other games, it is more like a sum of other games good features plus dragon shifting but I'll wait to play it before making a final statement.

Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Arkray] #365441
13/07/09 03:22 PM
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Alrik

I'm not that much into setting itself, I just need the ability to roleplay dark side. Jade Empire gave this posibility in a pretty much fairy-tale good-alignment setting. Perhaps you didnt noticed, but there is only 3 modern cRPGs that actually have substantial, balanced and very well written "dark path" - two KOTORs and to a lesser extent Jade Empire. Thats it. BG 2, while my fav game and having great variety of choices, still slightly biased in this matter - you could turn Viconia from evil but you could not turn Aerie to evil for example. Witcher is a gray moral RPG, so while its better than Drakensang its still not enough for me. And as for "good" RPGs and their variety, flixerflax said enough about this.

Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #365461
13/07/09 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer
[

Well, I have read several comments at RPGWatch, whoch calŲled Drakensang "refreshing" BECAUSE of so many "dark & grotty" RPGs nowadays ... I have serious difficulties remembering ANY "good alignment" RPGs in recent times - EVERYTHING tends to be "the darker, the better" nowadays.

In fact, we are getting flooded by dark fantasy settings, and even TDE was influenced so much by dark settings (which you can't see in Drakensang, by the way), that there have been erupted serious discussions whether the current, dark-influenced TDE is still the original, "real" TDE setting ! (TDE = The Dark eye).

Me, I have gained the impression that there are currently 2 groups of people trying to push and influence games into their directions, no mstter whatr other people say :

- gamers who want MP above everything else
- gamers who want a "dark & gritty" game above everything else.

Nowadays, I find myself as being in the minority, because I want SP-only games with a fairy-tale like setting. EVERYINE believes that this is complete crap and must be thrown out immediately !

"The darker, the better" is the current fashion in gaming, and if you manage to tell me 5 role playing games with "good alignment" fairy-tale like settings, you'll get 10 virtual rubber points from me ...





Sorry for quoting basically all of your post, but I must say I do agree with everything you stated here. To tell the truth, I like both the "dark and gritty" and the "colorful and shiny" (my eyes however tend to be naturally attracted to the latter of the two).
What I don't like, it's how the dark setting is becoming predominating, and not only in modern rpgs, but in modern videogames in general. I say it's a mirror of our current society and thus sadly it can't be avoided until the times change. It may not look like that, but we're not living in a good period.

To return to the moral choices thing: I like that, because I myself often don't know wether I'll make my character be good or evil during my gameplay. I tend to like playing Lawful Evil types of character, but anyway, I don't think it's just a matter of being given the choice to be evil (I can still accept that a videogame would rather prefer you play as the good hero/heroine), it's more of a matter of being given CHOICES. For example, Drakensang has no real choices apart from "do the quest/ refuse the quest"??? frown




"I draghi sono draghi proprio perchť gli uomini non possono nulla contro di loro."
Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Chudinho] #365469
14/07/09 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Chudinho
Well, my problem with Drakensang is that while design and graphics very nice, level of interaction with the world could be much better. I dont have problems with story-based gameplay that gets you kicked from one location to another without choice, but I usually expect that this will be compensated by ability to influence this story. And since i'm Neutral Evil in DnD terms I find it really hard to play a RPG in such strictly good alignment like Drakensang offered. This is general European cliche actually, only CD Project with Witcher managed to break it, German, Russian and other European RPG-makers usually stick to holy crusade theme which is annoying.
As for Oblivion, while I didnt get its style right away and finished it only a year after I bought it preferring to replay BG and KOTOR first, after that I found it quite replayable and enjoyable game. Just sticking to house and stuff collecting, exploring, can be fun as I discovered, but that's not what I look for in RPGs initially.

@Ech_Heftag
Mindread? Thats quite challenging to implement.

Level of interaction in Divine Divinity was a major plus about Divine Divinity, and you can be sure Larian won't drop that this time around.

I don't think the comparison with Dragon Age will stand. Of course Dragon Age will sell a lot more copies due to the giant marketing campaign they have, and BioWare (and to an extent, EA) are really gambling big on it. I'm sure Dragon Age will be a great game, and I'll definitely buy it once its price goes down.

As for Divinity 2, I am thinking it will sell better than the original Divine Divinity, but due to the limited marketing budget will not be a big name. The good thing here is that Larian made a classic with Divine Divinity, and they can confirm that status of being a "good games" company with Divinity 2.

I, for one, am a supporter of Bioware and I think they are the only big name out there that makes good RPG's. And I'll definitely support Larian as best I can in their quest to get to that level. I am convinced Divinity II will be a very enjoyable game.

However, as was said before, you can't really compare it to Drakensang or Dragon Age. Make it an improved Gothic 2. That's what I'd compare it to. Not sandboxy and boring like Oblivion, but not as storybound as your usual Bioware game.

Last edited by swordscythe; 14/07/09 09:58 AM.
Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: swordscythe] #365470
14/07/09 10:38 AM
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My 5 cents: IMHO, it has a style of its own, is fun to play, offers quite a challenge, makes you smile from time to time, explores new ideas and tries to avoid repetitivity by continuously introducing new gameplay elements. There's a dearth of good rpgs out there, so if there's a few coming out (and I count div2 among them), I'm a happy man. And while I haven't played the other ones, I do think it can stand the comparison with anything I've seen without blushing at all.

Lar

Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Lar_q] #365471
14/07/09 11:06 AM
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I realy think its impossible to please everyone out there. WHile some enjoy the open-world exploration mode/freedom, some might find it anoying and lose interest when overwhelmed with so much to do. Some love the fact you can be "evil" and everything you do influenciate later actions while some may like to be "directed" in the right way to play the game because its easier.


For example, i loved the big dungeouns in Divine Divinity, while i know a couple people that stoped playing as soon as they felt they were completely lost and had over 15 quests to do.

I can't stand a game like morrowind, while the same people that felt lost in DD enjoyed morrowind because it was more "eye candy". Anyways, its sometimes quite dificult to explain what makes you like a game and especialy an RPG.

There is a certain "je ne sais quoi" about larian, blizzard and bioware that makes me feel drawn into their games, and for some reason when i point out the best games of my live, almoust all are from them.

They are all diferent and shouldnt be compared imho, like D2 and dragon age also shouldnt be compared.

Last edited by Adomingues; 14/07/09 11:07 AM.
Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Lar_q] #365472
14/07/09 11:10 AM
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Personally, I think there's no way for those of us outside Larian to judge exactly what Divinity 2 is comparable to as a game because we can't actually play it, yet. And there's definitely no way anyone can compare it with Dragon Age as neither game has been released so I doubt a single person on Earth has played both.

As a side note, I have to say the 'dark path' in Jade Empire is absolute rubbish. It's 'nasty little schoolboy pulls wings off flies' mentality, not true evil at all. The attempt to pretend it's not evil is even MORE embarrassing. The only fault in an otherwise awesome game.

I'm going to add Overlord to the list of RPG games where you can play as good (Or evil - well, 'evil lite') as you want, BTW. And yes, it is an RPG - moreso than many that are billed as such.


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Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Elliot_Kane] #365480
14/07/09 12:58 PM
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I personally think Div II can't be compared at all to Drakensang, DA, or other PARTY based RPG's. Maybe from a storyline point of view, but I really think it is better compared to Diablo, the supposed King of single player, single-hero type games. But I truly think Divinity did it SOOOOO much better. Far better story and much better interaction with NPC's and more open environment. I think battle.net and multi-player carried Diablo far past what the game really was.

I really expect Div II to carry on the tradition of the first game. Some people just seem to have "it", and I think the Larian dev team proved they have "it" with Divinity. Now they have the experience to build on an awesome game and make the successor even better. Diablo 3 will probably sell way more games, but I would wager div2 will be technically a much better game. Just my 2 cents. woehoe


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Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: SheaOhmsford] #365503
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The best single character RPG is The Witcher, IMO. Hands down win, no rivals. That's the level all others must compete with...


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Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: Elliot_Kane] #365506
14/07/09 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Elliot_Kane
The best single character RPG is The Witcher, IMO. Hands down win, no rivals. That's the level all others must compete with...


Hard to refute, but I still think it could be improved upon, and has been in some aspects in previous games. On one hand, the biggest thing in my mind, is the "role" in RPG. The ability to choose from multiple character classes, with different abilities, is crucial. And can't forget male or female...less important to some, more to others. It's one of the things I loved about DD and Diablo. Gameplay strategies had to be adjusted for each type of character build. You can't have this in Witcher, at least not nearly to the same degree. On the other hand, you certainly have choices that affect the story and gameplay, and the story is pretty much phenomenal.


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Re: Challenge to Bioware or just another Drakensan [Re: SheaOhmsford] #365511
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All Divinity 2 needs, in my opinion, is to be different enough to not make everyone feel like they've played this before. I believe it will have no problem doing so though.

And I just want to add that I think people overestimate the value of the word "role" in RPG. It is not specified in role-playing game that the role has to be chosen by the player. When you'll play Call of Duty: Future Warfare 8, you'll be playing as private Joe or something. No matter how limited Joe's role is in that game, you'll still be playing his role, making it a role-playing game. When you play Diablo, you might play the role of a big barbarian that likes to run around and kill monsters. It's not very deep, but it's a role. My point is, the words "role-playing" mean nothing other than you're playing the role of someone other than yourself. But note that I do not dispute the use of RPG as the name for the genre of games that are about character development stat-wise and story-wise.


Shikin Haramitsu Daikomyo
"Everything I encounter serves as the perfection of wisdom that leads to enlightenment."
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