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... with negative Attributes ?

That's what I thought when I let my thoughts roam about the forth edition of DSA.

It has been a System with negative attributes, but the fourth edition almost erased them.

The "Gleichschaltung" was successful: Not only the dominant american RPG systems don't have them, but DSA don't have them now, too !

What about <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> why aren't there netagive attribbutes, too ?

Aren't they considered "good", because they a) aren't implemented in other RPG Systems, b) they impose balancing problems ? c) no-one has seemingly ever used them before (which is in fact not correct: Games based on DSA used them).

What are your thoughts about negative attributes like greed, for example ?

MFG, Alrik.



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hey alrik,
yes i agree, good idea, but all negative attributes must come at a price?
Then it would probably be necessary for alternate quest options, if the "path of negativity" is to be taken! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Last edited by Jurak; 26/05/03 02:26 AM.

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That's a good idea. Reputation is about the only potentially negative attribute in the game. I think they're avoided because it takes control away from the player.

In Deus Ex 2: Invisible War, you can get bio-augmentations (like skills). You can get them form official sources, or on the black-market. Those on the black-market are stronger, but come with side-effects. They (Ion Storm) are hoping that this will let the player play a light or a dark character.

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I'd like to show up the negative attributes of DSA, but I have to translate them first.

By the way, DSA ist soon hitting the english-speaking maret with the name "The Dark Eye".


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"I'll keep a dark eye out for it! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


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Well, the original german name is DSA Das Schwarze Auge - meaning The Black Eye ... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />


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In Might and Magic 6 (the only i managed to finish) there was an option of being the bad gay. But you couldn't see the difference. You were just killing good guys. But i agree it would be could if there was a path of evil to choose. But if you want to be a bad guy forget about visiting cities very often or else the impalement is waiting for you my friend! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The trade will be more difficult and you will never become a great hero. Ofcourse you can leave your mark in the history of the world killing a lot of noble men.

Before i stop typing I would like to mention that i am looking forward to see a game like that and be sure that i am not going to be the Lawful good character.

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Black & White also did the good or evil thing, and quite well.Evil tended to be more powerful, but you had to sacrafice your believers to stay evil, causing your power to diminish. And your temple, creature and mouse cursor also changed visually with their alignment.

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Well, actually, no.

You've misunderstood me: I didn't mean being evil.

I meant negative attributes ! There are in DSA :

- Goldgier (greed for gold)

- Raumangst (fear of closed rooms)

- Höhenangst (fear of great heights)

- Totenangst (fear of everything dead, Zombies, for example, or just dead corpses, and Gaveyards)

- Neugier (Neugierde) (curiosity)

- Aberglaube (believing in "signs", examples given: Ghosts in the light of the day, black cats, Talismans and such)


These are the "negative attributes" in DSA, and I think, using them in an RPG game they can create very interesting moments. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />


For example invading a dungeon, a dwarf sees a bag of gold, Goldgier takes over, and he runs to it, not noticing the underlying trap. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

Or the same party in that dungeon. Someone (an Elf) cannot stand dark, murky, clöosed rooms without fresh air. His Raumangst takes over, and he runs out of the cave, unable to stop.

Höhenangst: Climbing at the roof of a castle, someone of that group is frightened. Her Höhenangst takes over, and she isn't able to climb any further. She must be left - as a guardian, for example.

The group meets a black cat an the roof. One of them suddenly feels cursed. "It is a bad sign!" he speaks to the others, and his voice trembles.

Totenangst: They meet a dead corpse. The whole casle looks like it is being haunted, and this one might have been an adventurer. What, if this dead corpse suddenly gets up, grasping you with his foul arms ?

Neugierde: One in that party wonders what that corpse might have in its pockets. Curiosity takes over, and he tries to feel into this dead corpse's pockets, only feeling rotten flesh. Totenangst takes over, and the formerly curiosity-driven person runs away - just in time as the Zombie stands up, trying to catch the fleeing one's arms.

The Warrior has to fight the Zombie down, while battling against his own Totenangst, too (EVERYONE has these attributes !).


Actually, I can't believe it ! FanPro (the makers of DSA) erased them almost fully from the fourth edition, thus cutting from the system its most innovative elements and making DSA looking more like D&D, for example. (Thats what I meant with "Gleichschaltung".)

I still can't understand it !



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Ok!!! Now i got it. You've got a point there. I wish there would be some negative antributes in the future. It makes your character more interesting and m closer to reality. For examble I hate Spiders... maybe i can kill a Giant or two, but when a spider comes close to me i dont fight very well. You can find this kind of negative attributes in Pen and Paper. In future we will probalby see that option.

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That might be a better idea. Rather than losing control of your character, perhaps you receive penalties in certain situations. If you have a fear of falling, then all your attributes are reduced around gaping pits. The same could go for specific monsters, fire, water, caves, night, day, forests, civilians (paranoia), etc. I think losing control of your character would be too frustrating for some.

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hmm. these could be good.

paranoia around guards if your a thief?




damn that sux they deleated them.

they still in the English version though?



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Do you mean DSA ? No, I fear - the English version is - as far as I know - based upon the 4th EDition.

http://www.thedarkeyerpg.com


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alrik's negative attributes are similar to what is present in Freedom Force. u can have heroes who have glass skeleton which means immunity to electrical damage but prone to crushing damage & tend to be noisy as well. u gain some, u lose some.

good idea, alrik! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/up.gif" alt="" />



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