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Originally Posted by Abilio


Some people are quite furious and larian guy has spoken on the french board.

He is sad for the leak of communication about release date, but larian can do nothing. Because only the publisher can make a decision about releasing.

It's in the contract.



Can you link me where the larian guy says that about being sad? My knowledge of french is nill, but i wanted to see the boards' comments "translated" in google smile

Last edited by Adomingues; 07/09/09 11:05 AM.
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Originally Posted by Raze

I can not see where CDV is even going to notice the loss if you don't buy the game. IMO it would be better to import it, and contact CDV to explain why you would not buy it from them. Telling them you are not going to buy it at all might help, but may not get taken seriously (as you noted, talk is cheap, though an actual letter should get much more respect than an email).

In any case, you could try contacting CDV and ask if they plan on changing whatever behaviour or policies are in question before December, because you will not buy a game they publish as they currently act or conduct business, but had been looking forward to one that is to be released then.


My attempts at contacting cdv last year failed to receive a response, and I'm not spending any more time on it. Too bad Larian doesn't have a direct download store of their own, but I suppose publishers wouldn't want that. Even when Sacred2 came to Steam, for example, it was still the cdv published version. One of the reasons I'm still following Larian and the game is to evaluate other avenues of buying it. As you say, an import might work (if I'm willing to pay the premium over a local version; I don't buy used games).

Originally Posted by flixerflax
Are we re-naming it "Divine Divinity II: Divine Ego Draconis Divinity" ?

What were the gripes with CDV and the first game?

Rushing the game so we get a sparse and boring final act.
Giving the game a ridiculous stupid name.


To clarify, none of these is my concern about cdv. Mine was purely due to the attitude and quality of service of a cdv rep.

Anyway, I don't want to continue to derail discussion of the release with vague complaints about cdv. I'm not out to convince anyone else not to go with cdv (which is why I usually don't mention the publisher by name); I only mentioned it because I'm disappointed that Larian chose the only publisher on my no-buy list. mad

Carry on!

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Originally Posted by Adomingues
Originally Posted by Abilio


Some people are quite furious and larian guy has spoken on the french board.

He is sad for the leak of communication about release date, but larian can do nothing. Because only the publisher can make a decision about releasing.

It's in the contract.



Can you link me where the larian guy says that about being sad? My knowledge of french is nill, but i wanted to see the boards' comments "translated" in google smile


OK.
Actually, two guys from Larian have spoken :


http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=364006&fpart=2

The posts (in red : important sentences, easy to translate i think):

"Si si, y'a des gens de Larian qui passent sur les forums, faut pas vous inquiéter.
Cela dit, nous avons reçus des consignes des 'instances supérieures' nous empêchant que communiquer une quelconque info. Pour dire, à notre niveau, on ne connait même pas non plus la date exacte de sortie.
Et croyez-moi, ça nous fait aussi ch*er que vous. DimSum ou Axel pourraient le confirmer.
Just un détail (deux en fait), Larian n'y est pour rien en ce qui concerne la communication, le marketing et tout ça et le jeu est bel est bien fini (si on exclut le développement continu des patches).
Cela dit, même si je sais que tout le monde ne partage pas forcement mon avis, je vous comprends et je ne vais surement pas vous blamer.

Axel a déjà 'défié' l'autorité en vous révelant que je jzu était intégralement en français (même si j'ai l'impression que l'autorité s'en fout complètement). J'aimerai en faire autant mais malheureusement, je n'ai rien de nouveau à vous annoncer si ce n'est que, peut-être, avec un peu de chance, il se passera quelque chose à la PAX. Puisque, apparement, le festival des jeux vidéo n'est pas assez intéressant pour ces messieurs..."

And

"Oui je confirme.

Non franchement les mecs, on comprends votre frustration ! Croyez-moi, ne lire que des messages de frustration tous les jours concernant un produit dans lequel on a investit presque 5 ans de sueur, (même si on est "que" des employés, c'est aussi un peu notre bébé pardi !) ça ne fait plaisir à personne chez Larian.

Alors pourquoi on répond pas ? Pas par masochisme ou dédain, simplement : on ne peut pas. On peut parler du beau temps quil fait de l'autre côté de nos fenêtres, de la nourriture que l'on mange à midi, mais tout ce qui touche à la sortie de "Divinity 2: Ego Draconis" en-dehors de l'Allemagne, on peut pas ! Comme l'a mentionné Madawg, ce sont les éditeurs qui par contrat se chargent de tout ce qui est de la promo. Et vous voyez le résultat, par conséquent vous pouvez imaginer nos états d'âmes chez Larian. On est comme qui dirait pieds et poings liés.

Je ne peux pas vous en vouloir d'être en colère, mais en tant que développeur, et surtout en tant que gamer invétéré, je vous demande humblement d'être patient encore... septembre ne s'est entamé il n'y a que quelques jours seulement. "

Last edited by Abilio; 07/09/09 12:17 PM.
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Posted by Madawg (larian studios) & Dimsum (larian studios) in french forums:

"(...)Because, apparently, the festival of video games is not interesting enough for the gentlemen ... "
"(...)although I feel that the authority could not care less"
"(...)the publishers who are contractually responsible for everything from the promotion. And you see the result, so you can imagine our state of mind at Larian. It is as it were bound hand and foot."



Do I sense some kind of irony in the larian staff towards the "higher-ones-that-call-the-shots", and even some kind of revolt towards what the distributors are doing to their "notre bébé pardi" ?


Or was the google translation that bad?

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Originally Posted by Adomingues

Posted by Madawg (larian studios) & Dimsum (larian studios) in french forums:

"(...)Because, apparently, the festival of video games is not interesting enough for the gentlemen ... "
"(...)although I feel that the authority could not care less"
"(...)the publishers who are contractually responsible for everything from the promotion. And you see the result, so you can imagine our state of mind at Larian. It is as it were bound hand and foot."



Do I sense some kind of irony in the larian staff towards the "higher-ones-that-call-the-shots", and even some kind of revolt towards what the distributors are doing to their "notre bébé pardi" ?


Or was the google translation that bad?


Yes, you are right. The translation are quite good.

BTW, "notre bébé" = "our infant" or "our baby"

And "pardi" it's a old french word to said "of course" with a lot of conviction.
(Pardi is the contraction of "Par Dieu !", that's means "For Godness" !)

Last edited by Abilio; 07/09/09 01:15 PM.
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Originally Posted by Adomingues
perhaps it was larian that this time made demands instead of CDV, who knows?


Sounds to me as if you were a CDV-Fanboy.

I'm here on this forum since its very beginning, and I know a few bits from the history here ...


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When it comes to support -- well, why would I deal w/ the publisher? They don't make the game -- they just publish it.

I've always found it best to post on the General Forums, Tech Forums and whatnot for Message Boards of the company, not the publisher. You often get a way quicker response, since somebody from the game company usually is hanging on the boards. smile

I mean, last time I checked, Larian did the smart move and removed the DRM boot-check (StarForce) from Beyond Divinity (in the USA) -- after many people screamed about how terrible StarForce is. And yes, that means a lot to me. Thank you, Larian. smile

I do have Divine Divinity on disc (USA) -- I forgot, since it been so long -- but did they remove the DRM-check on that? Heck, did it even have a DRM check? I can't recall.

Regardless, I'm glad to hear that Divinity 2 is being published in the USA, finally. smile

I think December's a fair enough month for a release of Divinity 2 in the USA. In the USA, Champions Online and DDO Unlimited came out for RPG's in September; Borderlands and Torchlight are coming in October; I think Venetica is coming to USA in October (I'm uncertain); Dragon Age: Origins in November 3rd; and now Divinity 2 is in December. Sounds like a good plan to me -- as it's further spaced-out away from all the huge releases.

Plus, as we do know, these ain't an RPG's, but Modern Warfare 2 during November is going to do a killing -- just b/c it's Infinity Ward and Call of Duty. And I'm guessing, Left 4 Dead 2 will sell well just b/c it's another Left 4 Dead game -- even if it might yet again turn out to be skimpy on content.

Yep, looks like Divinity 2 has December locked. Anything else coming in December?


Last edited by MysterD; 07/09/09 01:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer
Originally Posted by Adomingues
perhaps it was larian that this time made demands instead of CDV, who knows?


Sounds to me as if you were a CDV-Fanboy.

I'm here on this forum since its very beginning, and I know a few bits from the history here ...


Sounds to me you shouldnt talk about what i am, because you dont know me.
The fact you are here from the beggining reveals you are a dedicated fan, and i salute you for that with all respect, but doesnt give you the "right" to call me anything, much less being a "fan-boy".

With that in mind, I kindly ask that you put your hostility aside because i'm here exchanging information about a company i like as much, or more, or less than you (impossible to say as you might agree).

In fact, It does seem you were right based on a few posts up from the french larian people, in wich i already stated (read up). But, again, that doesnt give you the right to call names to people.


About the release in december, it seems a quite adequate date for the distributor point of view, but realy disapointing for us and for larian. Would be bad for sales if it gone out in october or november because of major hits coming out, and i'm sure the cash flows better in december. I wouldnt be surprised in a 15-20 december release for D2, wich makes me sad, but i'll stick to the end, i'll buy it for sure no matter what.

Last edited by Adomingues; 07/09/09 01:50 PM.
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Originally Posted by Adomingues

About the release in december, it seems a quite adequate date for the distributor point of view, but realy disapointing for us and for larian.

Of course.
As gamers, we want the game out ASAP! :oP

The publisher -- well, CDV is going to be going against too much, if you look at what's planned in October -- Torchlight, Borderlands, I think Venetica -- and that isn't nowhere near all of it! I know there's others, just can't think of them! And in November, there's Dragon Age: Origins, Modern Warfare 2 and Left 4 Dead 2 -- I guarantee you, those games ALL are gonna sell like crazy in November, in the USA.

Quote
Would be bad for sales if it gone out in october or november because of major hits coming out, and i'm sure the cash flows better in december. I wouldnt be surprised in a 15-20 december release for D2, wich makes me sad, but i'll stick to the end, i'll buy it for sure no matter what.

What's big-time that's coming out in December?

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I believe Risen is coming out in October as well. December seems a lock. Sad it's so far away, but probably good for Larian.

And yeah, publishers are the bane of the game industry... but they wouldn't exist if they weren't needed, sadly.

All people on these forums that hail from 'Belgium' will know what I mean when I say negotiations sometimes require you to do things you despise, and yet; it's still better than maintaining the stalemate. Life's not black and white. I don't speak for Larian, but I'm sure both the employees and the employer intend only the best for this game. Publishers are a necessary evil, and as great as dtp appears to be, there is no dtp available for international release. That means someone has to water their wine or close up shop. I'm sure it's not a decision one makes gladly. When it comes to worldwide releases, the number of options is limited.


Edit: as for the release: I don't think Divinity will have to compete with MMORPG's, and Borderlands isn't an RPG.

Last edited by swordscythe; 07/09/09 04:25 PM.
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I have to say that I disagree with the claim that being released in Dec. will be a good idea.

First let me say that the avg American gamer nowadays have rather "shallow" tastes in games. So releasing a "deep" game like Div 2 when other "high profile" cra... err... games like CoD is being released will most definitely hurt the sales of Div 2.

Then there is the problem of comparison.

If Div 2 is released this month, it will be compared to older RPGs by both critics and gamers. But by December, it will be compared with a bunch of "heavy hitters."

Div 2 is a great game. But by Dec. people, esp. gamers, will be much less likely to overlook the shortcomings of Div 2 and give it a chance to shine. (Seriously, Div 2 really has some great ideas, I am replaying Gothic III right now, and I can't tell you how many times I wished that there was an option to "read mind...")

Yes, I am taking a pessimistic stance. But I am just fed up with great games that didn't get the recognition that they deserved over here. (Gothic I and II, The fall: Last Days of Gaia, and few other RPGs that didn't even make it to the US market)

The worst part is that if the sales in US sucked, publisher starts to think that the type of game doesn't "fit" with the culture in the US. Thus resulting future games of the same type not being released in the US or released in a very crippled state that practically sets up the game to fail. (For example, localization, why spend the money to do a good localization job for the English market, when you think that, based on past experiences, the game won't be that well received in the English speaking countries? I am getting worked up just thinking about this... There have been so many games that were actually great, but have been shafted by poor localization...)

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Originally Posted by swordscythe
I believe Risen is coming out in October as well.

Oh, how the heck did I forget about Risen?
Good point.

Quote
December seems a lock. Sad it's so far away, but probably good for Larian.

Agreed. If I was Larian and CDV, coming out in October and November -- competing against other RPG's and OTHER big-AAA titles for a new $40-50 -- yeah, I'd be wanting to release later, as well.

Plus, I'm sure it'd help give more time to get Divinity 2 in a more of a polished state for the States, as well.

Quote
And yeah, publishers are the bane of the game industry... but they wouldn't exist if they weren't needed, sadly.

All people on these forums that hail from 'Belgium' will know what I mean when I say negotiations sometimes require you to do things you despise, and yet; it's still better than maintaining the stalemate. Life's not black and white. I don't speak for Larian, but I'm sure both the employees and the employer intend only the best for this game. Publishers are a necessary evil, and as great as dtp appears to be, there is no dtp available for international release. That means someone has to water their wine or close up shop. I'm sure it's not a decision one makes gladly. When it comes to worldwide releases, the number of options is limited.

Why doesn't DTP do International releases? Are they not that big of a publisher yet?
Or do they have no desire to expand their publishing adventures out to say the United States?

Quote
Edit: as for the release: I don't think Divinity will have to compete with MMORPG's

Still, if gamers are already say sticking w/ a MMO for a month or more -- do you think that'll sway a gamer to go out and buy Divinity 2?

I will bet gamer wants his $15 for the whole month worth, when he/she agrees to do a MMO -- and play the life out of that MMO until they get shut off from the game, once the month's up. That or they'll pay for another month.

Plus, I don't think everybody out there is going to just drop $50-60 on every game that's around, either -- unless they're rich! People are going to shell out the $50 for a certain game and let some of the other games drop in price first or wait for some really good sale.

Quote
and Borderlands isn't an RPG.


Okay, "Role Playing Shooter" as they call it -- with way more emphasis on the shooter part.

Last edited by MysterD; 07/09/09 09:18 PM.
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Originally Posted by Equisilus
Unfortunate. ouch cdv is the one publisher on my no-buy list. Yet another highly anticipated game for me brought down by using cdv (the other was Sacred2). Oh well, guess I'll have more time for other things. frown


I have the non-CDV version of Sacred 2 by Deep Silver. Have you tried that version instead?

Sacred 2 is a blast and I still play it today!

Can't wait for Divinity 2. wink


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Sacred 2 is indeed awesome, if you like purely loot-centric games. There's really no story to speak of, but killing monsters (which is the majority of the game) is really fun at times. I hate how the camera is fixed at such a crappy angle, but thankfully it's easily corrected with some INI tweaking.

And seconded on being anxious for the release of this. December is a while to wait, but like others have stated, if it ensures there'll be minimal bugs and other issues I'm perfectly capable of waiting. And, also as previously mentioned, there are so many promising RPGs coming out between now and then that the spacing is nearly perfect. By the time of its release you should already be done with the others.

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Originally Posted by kuru308
Sacred 2 is indeed awesome, if you like purely loot-centric games. There's really no story to speak of, but killing monsters (which is the majority of the game) is really fun at times. I hate how the camera is fixed at such a crappy angle, but thankfully it's easily corrected with some INI tweaking.

I have Sacred 2 -- and yes, it is really good.

About the camera -- I have Patch 2.40 currently installed, and if you look under the gameplay options in this version, you can pick b/t different Camera Modes a la NWN games -- such as a Free Cam (that you can entirely manipulate yourself any way you choose); a Follow mode (where the cam always follows behind the player); and ... well, I forget the 3rd cam mode! I keep it in Free Cam mode, myself -- I like to feel like I'm the player and director of this game here; I call the shots and what angle I think is best to see the action at.

Quote
And seconded on being anxious for the release of this. December is a while to wait, but like others have stated, if it ensures there'll be minimal bugs and other issues I'm perfectly capable of waiting. And, also as previously mentioned, there are so many promising RPGs coming out between now and then that the spacing is nearly perfect. By the time of its release you should already be done with the others.

100% agreed.

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I did indeed notice that there were three different camera modes, but all of them wouldn't let you view that far straight ahead. I guess they wanted to make the graphics really high-end, and so limiting your viewing range would enable the game to perform better. I did this little file tweak and now the camera can actually be moved freely - you can look as far ahead as you want. The downside, as expected, is that I've had to lower my graphical settings for it to not chug badly.

And, I just realized, this is the first time I've signed up for the message boards of a developer before their game came out in years. This is the first time I recall being this anxious for a game in a similar amount of time. The last time I was this impatient and super excited was for Fable, which was known as Project Ego back then, and Peter Molyneux's fantastical claims still seemed like a possibility. Trees that age! Play a character from childhood to adulthood! OMG!

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released on DECEMBER??that's a BAAAAD idea.first the bad previews/reviews that told us that divinity 2 isn't related to the first DD in any way; 2)and now we hear that D2 is released in October AFTER games like aion,dragon age,and assasin's creed 2.i hope larian know what they're doing...

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Your so negative arn't you.
Its upto the Publisher when to release it.
Although Larian probably get an small say in the matter.

What do you mean bad previews/reviews?

Don't like what you see move along...


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Originally Posted by grandia01
released on DECEMBER??that's a BAAAAD idea.first the bad previews/reviews that told us that divinity 2 isn't related to the first DD in any way; 2)and now we hear that D2 is released in October AFTER games like aion,dragon age,and assasin's creed 2.i hope larian know what they're doing...


No bad reviews so far. The criticism in the GERMAN version (the only one released so far) has some bugs and gameplay issues that will be resolved (mostly i think) in the patch that the international version of the game will already contain.

About it being diferent than D1, well... Fallout 3 is also diferent from the predecessors and sold well, so... whats your point?

And about release in December, if you read a few posts up, larian is kinda disapointed in that aswell, as its purely a distributor issue.


About the release date being important for games, is that realy all that important? just last week i bought Sacred 2 that was released 1 year ago. I know the "hype" is kinda important for some people but honestly when i dont have a game to play, i research and get a game, newly released or not - it just has to be good!

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I just got back from PAX in Seattle where we showed the game to the US audience and I got to meet the people at CDV for the first time. I can tell you that this is a very different team than the one in 2002, and I was quite impressed by their professionalism. As the US deal was only signed recently, they need some time to prepare their market but I think they'll do really well.

As far as the market and competition are concerned, I think it's cool that there are several RPG's coming to market as there's really been a drought, but I also think div2 has sufficient strengths to create its own market. That was evident from seeing the warm reception the game got at PAX and by observing the people play.

We also haven't stopped working on the game ever since it's been released in Germany, paying very close attention to these forums, and while the reviews so far have been good, I think that with everything we've added, they'll get even better. Most negatives hinted at by reviewers are gone now, using the simple secret formula of : listen to suggestions, fix things that bother people and implement features that are in popular demand. That means that the versions which we are mastering now are quite battle-tested, and incorporate a whole bunch of things we didn't manage to do during the original production. While delays suck (also for us who ultimately do this because we enjoy seeing people have fun with our creations), they sometimes do have advantages, and I think the work done on the original release definitely falls in that category.

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