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Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: AudioEpics] #398700
06/01/10 12:43 PM
06/01/10 12:43 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 63
Czech republic
Farflame Offline
journeyman
Farflame  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 63
Czech republic
I agree with Chimeray. For me respawn KILLS even the slightest level of realism and hurts atmosphere in the world. World filled with unending hordes of enemies is totally forced (artificial) like big arena created only for grinding. It has its sense in MMORPG but in a story-driven single player RPG its IMHO nonsense and big mistake.

Its only a pity that there are players so deeply affected by simplistic MMO culture that they cant see ANYTHING beyond MMO grinding and gaming style. If another RPG is not designed the same way as MMORPGs they think its bad and awful game. Why they cant learn or experience something new? Are they so "simple" (silly) that they can understand and enjoy only grinding and hunt for items?

Last edited by Farflame; 06/01/10 12:45 PM.
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: shadowdef] #398708
06/01/10 01:56 PM
06/01/10 01:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5
allstyles Offline
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allstyles  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 5
i love it that this game does not respawn enemies, if you like respawning enemies try far cry 2 ;\)

Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: allstyles] #398710
06/01/10 02:05 PM
06/01/10 02:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 19,700
A
AlrikFassbauer Offline
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AlrikFassbauer  Offline
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Posts: 19,700
Here's what I wrote today on RPGWatch :

 Originally Posted By: Alrik Fassbauer
In my opinion, Divinity 1 has many pieces of an Action-RPG, but personally, I don't see it as such.

To me, it's just an hybrid.

It has *lots* of fightings, but what it differs from Action-RPGs is that it also contains a relatively well-developed story - but that's not that important to me,
more important to me is the fact that it has sooooo many sidequests ! Of which only a part consists of hacking & slashing like one is used to from "true" Action-RPGs (remember the dish-washing ?).

Action-RPGs only have relatively few sidequests, I assume (well, Sacred 1 is an exception in that respect), and very, very few character interaction. In D2 by Blizzard it is reduced to the absolute tiniest necessary minimum. Blizzard shaped their Action-RPGs so as if the character interaction waw considered only a hindrance, a distraction from "real" gameplay, and that "role-playing" merely consists of happily hacking monsters, nothing more. Blizzards games are a testament against social skills.

I fear that this was another reason (among many others) that social skills were rather left out from even "real" RPGs (Gothic, for example) - from almost the whole RPG genre.

Not that they were often implemented either.

Blizzard kind of defined - imho - the "Action-RPG" genre, and everyone is only too willing to give in that, because that's what sells !

The influence was also masive on other RPGs. Now almost every game has "Action/RPG" written on its cover, no matter how much this *really* truly applies to the game itself.

Except The Witcher, maybe.

Now, the current state is, that under the influence of sub-genre defining Blizzard, RPGs in general are considered to be just or nothing but a line of hacking & slashing intermezzos, with a little bit of shopping and even less social interaction being nothing but a break of that.

Even Drakensang, which uses a system which contains rather a *lot* of possibilities for social interaction, consists rather of a series of fights.

The hardcore Action-RPG üplayer will - this is just a theorym, nothing more - just despise any attempt to make any RPG more "social", so to say. Because for the hardcore Action-RPGer "role-playing" merely consists of killing monsters, and getting loot for it, and shopping, of course. In this theory, The SIMs would be most hated, because it is the direct opposite of the essence of the Action-RPG genre.



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: shadowdef] #398711
06/01/10 02:06 PM
06/01/10 02:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 19,700
A
AlrikFassbauer Offline
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AlrikFassbauer  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: shadowdef
I wont my money back.....


Yes.

You won't get your money back.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: shadowdef] #398712
06/01/10 02:08 PM
06/01/10 02:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 19,700
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AlrikFassbauer Offline
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AlrikFassbauer  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 19,700
 Originally Posted By: shadowdef
I Have played maybe 40-50 RPG games in my life and not in any has there ever been no respwans.

That is why this game is not an RPG.


I assume this is the exact reason why you tried your very best to keep yourself away from the Realms Of Arcania trilogy.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #398752
06/01/10 03:59 PM
06/01/10 03:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 63
Czech republic
Farflame Offline
journeyman
Farflame  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 63
Czech republic
 Originally Posted By: AlrikFassbauer

I fear that this was another reason (among many others) that social skills were rather left out from even "real" RPGs (Gothic, for example) - from almost the whole RPG genre.


We all know this trend in RPG genre. But success of Dragon Age (and other RPGs like Drakensang in RPG-positive Germany) may help to give social side of RPGs a little more credit. People buy these "real" RPGs, but there are less publishers who are willing to support these games alongside "easy money" FPS shooters ("each year new CoD" formula) or other mostly action games marketed by graphics.


 Originally Posted By: AlrikFassbauer

Blizzard kind of defined - imho - the "Action-RPG" genre, and everyone is only too willing to give in that, because that's what sells !


Its usual in many genres. Something is popular, others try to copy that to get easy money.


 Originally Posted By: AlrikFassbauer

Even Drakensang, which uses a system which contains rather a *lot* of possibilities for social interaction, consists rather of a series of fights.


For me, social interaction in Drakensang was ok. If you choose hero with initial high social skills you can find more dialog branches in interaction with NPCs from the start (even in very first dialog in the game with sergeant Erland there was this "hidden" dialog option). You can also use it to intimidate or persuade someone in many dialogs. But I agree that it was far from ideal state - social skills could have more impact on a game (for example - option to persuade NPC to help you vs some monsters in a quest (or NPC could give you some strong weapon), while more fighter-type hero would never get that help and have to fight alone with weapons he already has). Dialog texts in english could also benefit from a little more work on characters (less formal language would be much better) etc.

I hope that developers bring to Drakensang: River of Time more detail, more TDE lore, overal better characters and deeper quests - and the game will sit on RPG throne as the best title in the year AFTER Dragon Age. (very optimistic \:D )
BTW: Alrik, could you confirm that from your experience as tester?

Last edited by Farflame; 06/01/10 04:00 PM.
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: Farflame] #398803
06/01/10 06:15 PM
06/01/10 06:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 19,700
A
AlrikFassbauer Offline
veteran
AlrikFassbauer  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 19,700
At least I can confirm that Radon Labs has polished the gamne in a lot of places.

To me, the experience was nearly as good as in Drakensang, but I haven't played too far into the game - not further then the demo, in fact. THe only difference is that I know what comes directly after the end of the demo ... ;\) But that is predictable from the demo's end as well ... ;\)

Personally, I had indeed the impression as if the social interaction was enhanced a bit more. Which is actually something I'm looking forward to. \:\)


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #398903
06/01/10 10:42 PM
06/01/10 10:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 96
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marcusdavidus Offline
journeyman
marcusdavidus  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 96
there are respawning mobs : on broken valey use the damned device to spawn new enemys after u got wings go to that flng fortress when is ghost kill all mobs and go to doors give bad answer all mobs on this lvl will respawn u can make this till your dont get borred or mobs stop give exp .

imho the not resp mobs are not problem most of modern crpg dont use respawns but hard lvled mobs in d2 sux the whole idea of damage based on your and enemy lvl is stupid becosue by half of game ur underleved even if u make 90% of all quests and kill every single mob and by secodn half of game ur overleveled becouse every mobs are lower lvl than u and they dont do any damage to u

even if u try go to cliffs before u got wings u got no chances to kill anythign thre cuz they are lik 7 lvls over u and they kill u instantly but after u got your wings they are just anyoing rats who hit u for 10 but have alot of hp so u need by 40 minutes kill this retardet creatures jsut to make one quest an is uber borring


Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: marcusdavidus] #399083
07/01/10 02:04 PM
07/01/10 02:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6
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Urukhai Offline
stranger
Urukhai  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 6
 Originally Posted By: marcusdavidus
there are respawning mobs : on broken valey use the damned device to spawn new enemys after u got wings go to that flng fortress when is ghost kill all mobs and go to doors give bad answer all mobs on this lvl will respawn u can make this till your dont get borred or mobs stop give exp .

imho the not resp mobs are not problem most of modern crpg dont use respawns but hard lvled mobs in d2 sux the whole idea of damage based on your and enemy lvl is stupid becosue by half of game ur underleved even if u make 90% of all quests and kill every single mob and by secodn half of game ur overleveled becouse every mobs are lower lvl than u and they dont do any damage to u

even if u try go to cliffs before u got wings u got no chances to kill anythign thre cuz they are lik 7 lvls over u and they kill u instantly but after u got your wings they are just anyoing rats who hit u for 10 but have alot of hp so u need by 40 minutes kill this retardet creatures jsut to make one quest an is uber borring


I am sorry, I might be extremely retarded, but I don't understand your so-called english.
What is that FLNG fortress? And what do you mean by saying "when is ghost kill all mobs" ?
What is crpg - crap role-playing game? If so, then perhaps I agree you on this point, that Ego Draconis is cRPG, because of this no-respawning system. I'm guessing that sooner or later there will come out a modification that will allow every and each of the game world monsters to respawn, otherwise your leveling is extremely limited. And if you haven't done quests in order, you will most likely run into to groups of enemies that your current level and abilities do not give you even a chance to be victorious, especially in dungeons, where your physical movement is limited. Or, as you already said, you will be fighting monsters that are lower level than yours, and the experience you gain, will be insufficient to level-up in order to enjoy this game.
Also, I would like to make another statement about this game's summoning system. There is a huge hole, or you might even call it a bug, that your summoned creatures do not follow you, especially when you cross a river or climb a ladder. Of course, you might say that they teleport, if they cannot reach you by foot, but that teleporting system is also absolutely bugged, because it rarely works and even if it does, there is a slight chance that your creatures won't always attack your enemies, but just run around and make it more difficult to beat your opponents.

Last edited by Urukhai; 07/01/10 02:05 PM.
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: Urukhai] #399091
07/01/10 02:20 PM
07/01/10 02:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 96
M
marcusdavidus Offline
journeyman
marcusdavidus  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 96
i mean keara flyng fortess . in her chambers is ghost of her dead man
u need speak with statues and name them if u do that wrong and go to doors of keara room mobs on whole level will respawn = infinite lvling
also i dont see any reazon why dont kill much bigger mobs than u i was even try on lvl 15 kill this elite in mine tower like 20 times but no way \:\(
but if the enemy lvl is not like 10 lvl more than u u can win
anyway after u got magic lvl 30 is god mode on cuz everything hit u for 0 and its sux like hell


Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: marcusdavidus] #399095
07/01/10 02:28 PM
07/01/10 02:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 217
Behind you cutting your throat...
Unreal Warfare Offline
enthusiast
Unreal Warfare  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 217
Behind you cutting your throat...
You can also fight never ending mobs in the Maxos Temple in the maze.

There are areas of respawning mobs they're just not everywhere.

Last edited by Unreal Warfare; 07/01/10 02:29 PM.


Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: Unreal Warfare] #399100
07/01/10 02:58 PM
07/01/10 02:58 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 811
virumor Offline
old hand
virumor  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 811
Even if there are respawning mobs at some locations in the game, there is no infinite leveling. As soon as your in-game avatar is 5 levels above enemies, the XP gained will be 0.

Of course, if you return to Broken Valley when you're level 30+ mobs there will be very easy since they're all level 27 there. Same for Aleroth. The point is to try to do everything when your level is the same as your enemies.

Last edited by virumor; 07/01/10 03:00 PM.
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: virumor] #399101
07/01/10 03:00 PM
07/01/10 03:00 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 217
Behind you cutting your throat...
Unreal Warfare Offline
enthusiast
Unreal Warfare  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 217
Behind you cutting your throat...
 Originally Posted By: virumor
Even if there are respawning mobs at some locations in the game, there is no infinite leveling. As soon as your in-game avatar is 5 levels above enemies, the XP gained will be 0.


That's normal in any game that has any form of respawning enemies.



Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: Unreal Warfare] #399102
07/01/10 03:04 PM
07/01/10 03:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 96
M
marcusdavidus Offline
journeyman
marcusdavidus  Offline
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Posts: 96
nope
if enemys got auto lvl adjust but not crap like in oblivion :P
also the whole 5 lvls aboute = unkilable is stupid


Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: marcusdavidus] #399160
07/01/10 08:29 PM
07/01/10 08:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 19,700
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AlrikFassbauer Offline
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@Farflame: More on Drakensang 2 to be found here : http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1060991508#post1060991508


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: Libertarian] #399673
09/01/10 09:03 AM
09/01/10 09:03 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 19
ElektroDragon Offline
stranger
ElektroDragon  Offline
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Posts: 19
OH MY GOD..... I LOVE the fact that the monsters don't respawn, personally. What am immature ranter! Larian, please don't listen to him, good job with lack of respawn. I HATE respawn!

Last edited by ElektroDragon; 09/01/10 09:06 AM.
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: ElektroDragon] #399675
09/01/10 09:27 AM
09/01/10 09:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 34
Spirit Lake, ID USA
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Pyrion Offline
apprentice
Pyrion  Offline
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Spirit Lake, ID USA
Thing to bear in mind is that the passage of time in this game is tied inexorably to story progression (consider the constant presence of the merchant who constantly says he's going to leave soon but never does, as the sun never sets no matter how long you let the game idle), so as a result, unless there is a specifically good reason for enemies to respawn (as would be the case with Mook Makers), once you've wiped a map of enemies, it makes a lot of sense for there to be no more enemies on that map for the rest of the "day," at least. Again, tied inexorably to story progression.

Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: Pyrion] #399679
09/01/10 09:51 AM
09/01/10 09:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 191
Latvia
DeviRyuuD Offline
member
DeviRyuuD  Offline
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Latvia
Pyrion, nicely said.


...........................::ALIVE::..........................

DeviRyuuD(Myojinoir) Reviews here
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: Urukhai] #399700
09/01/10 11:04 AM
09/01/10 11:04 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 95
Sydney, downunder
stubbie Offline
journeyman
stubbie  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 95
Sydney, downunder
 Originally Posted By: Urukhai

I am sorry, I might be extremely retarded, but I don't understand your so-called english.

What is crpg - crap role-playing game?


crpg = computer role playing game.

There is no need to criticise someone in this forum for their 'so-called english"

Even though this is the English forum a lot of people here do not have have english as their first language.

A bit more tolerance wouldn't hurt you, I'm sure.

Last edited by stubbie; 09/01/10 11:08 AM.
Re: WTF GARBAGE [Re: stubbie] #399708
09/01/10 11:54 AM
09/01/10 11:54 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 79
Z
Zomgnome Offline
journeyman
Zomgnome  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 79
I don't have any problem with either. Every game that is design with respawning enemies, or no respawning enemies, is designed like that from the start, and so there isn't any problem with it beacouse everyting is built around it. Fable 1 would have been 40% less fun (out of 140% :)) if it didn't have respawning bandits on the roads betwen towns. Risen would never be as satisfying and as atmospheric if it didn't respawn only selected enemies in selected places between chapters.

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