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I see I'm not the only one suffering from virtual motion sickness smile
To Unreal Warfare: I'm sorry I reacted a bit too strongly, I guess I was in a prickly mood at the time.
Anyway, I'm a 27 year-old male but it's really interesting to see how varied the audience is for this game. I like that. I'm also a P&P guy so it's nice to see other people with the same background.

The interesting gender discussion here made me think... I wonder what it would be like to play something like a really ugly old crone in a game, and have her be heroic. That might actually be quite interesting/fun. It's certainly a viewpoint that is completely alien to me. I really don't know how old ladies think, what goes on in their minds, how they feel about themselves...



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Originally Posted by Unreal Warfare

I think that we all have our own tastes and needs to be catered for. It's hard to find a good developer who can cater for everyone. Sometimes it's best to not allow some things to put you off or you could miss out on some really good games.

Ha! I deceived myself there! Seeing as how you jumped on the "older girls" wagon, I assumed, you were one. Well, no point in my trying to convey my point, because your needs are being catered to in abundance. Why would you take issue in that? laugh

Of course when I saw your games list, there was only the one game I could like, DD2. The others are guns and war and exactely what I can't find any fun in because it makes me horribly depressed.

~~~||~~~

@Tali:
I really don't have anything against the sexy girls, as long as we can have sexy guys, too. laugh
I usually enjoy playing girls in 3rd person a lot more because of the nice, fluid motions and I just like lookig at a nice butt rather than a guy that stomps stiffly through the world. Not every guy can be Geralt of Rivia, can they *g*? He's nice to behold, but he's the exception to the rule.

Oblivion, now there's great possibilities! I used the best body replacers, of course (no, not the h-cup monstrosities) and I religiously collect every piece of work from Alien Slof. She who modded for the poor, neglected guys since Morrowind. I keep thinking about finding a new custom adventure for Oblivion and start playing again with the new mods I've collected but haven't played yet. I find myself to be homesick for the beautiful landscape of Cyrodiil sometimes. I solve the gender issue who to play by playing a female and taking a male companion, whose job it is to look pretty and play barbie for the amazing Slof clothes, lol. Talking about objectifiying, heh.
And that's the main argument against consoles for me: no modding. There are games better played as is, but there are games that just scream for customisation. Well, that's me, anyway. wink

It's a pity you get the motion sickness! In Oblivion I enjoyed to buff up my character so much, she couldn't take too much damage from a fall and then jump off bridges and towers for kicks. I've seen no other game where I can get this intense kick from the jumping, I suppose the camera is just perfect. And hey, there's the famous mud crab view as well for lovers of the first person view. laugh

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Originally Posted by AudioEpics
I really don't know how old ladies think, what goes on in their minds, how they feel about themselves...

Ouch! Define "old ladies", lol. Everyone over 30?
*rofl*

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Originally Posted by Talitha
I don't know any other woman my age who love to play video games


Go to www.RPGWatch.com , there you can find some more of your age (and maybe even older) wink

Edit : I'm 40, by the way. wink


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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Originally Posted by Microcroft
Ha! I deceived myself there! Seeing as how you jumped on the "older girls" wagon, I assumed, you were one. Well, no point in my trying to convey my point, because your needs are being catered to in abundance. Why would you take issue in that? laugh

Of course when I saw your games list, there was only the one game I could like, DD2. The others are guns and war and exactely what I can't find any fun in because it makes me horribly depressed.


On the contrary I actually like to hear what other people look for in games as I'm training to be a game designer. So your views and opinions (as well as anyone else who put their points across constructively) are very important to me so that I can gain a better understanding of what people look for in games.

As for whether my needs are being catered to, well you don't really know what my needs are so I'm not sure you can make such a bold claim there just because I am a male.

Don't really see the big issue with guns and war personally (I suppose being in the Armed Forces has a lot to do with it). After all every game in some way or another is based on violence (bar some sports games, population sims, or music games) even games like Divinity 2 and Dragon Age. I understand the motion sickness thing but it seems to go a bit deeper than that with you.

Consoles and modding. I wish. The lack of community content on consoles is something I really do dislike. Something that is starting to break down these barriers is Indie Games on the Xbox 360. I think the main problem here is that companies want money out of content that they put on their respective marketplaces, aswell as content control.

Good job I have a PC aswell for those multi platform games I really do like.


Last edited by Unreal Warfare; 06/01/10 05:48 PM.


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Originally Posted by Unreal Warfare
On the contrary I actually like to hear what other people look for in games as I'm training to be a game designer. So your views and opinions (as well as anyone else who put their points across constructively) are very important to me so that I can gain a better understanding of what people look for in games.


Please take notice of cultural differences, too.

Europe, for example, seems to be rather oriented towards diplomacy then to fighting to solve problems.
At least this is my personal perception.



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
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Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer

Europe, for example, seems to be rather oriented towards diplomacy then to fighting to solve problems. At least this is my personal perception.


Really? I dont think it can be generalised this way. Nowadays population is heavily influenced by mainstream media, marketing, political or econonical lobby with primitive black/white logic - "you are our enemy/idiot/communist if you dont do what we want/dont think as we want..." etc. And this influence is present also in Europe. But its a little off topic on gaming forum. crazy

---

About diplomacy - I think for a long time that its overlooked element in RPG genre. As in real life - fighter can be powerful, but he is only one. Good diplomat can have whole army... I imagine that there is no need to see all "modern fantasy heroes" as valiant knights/paladins/great mages. If they stand against strong foe leading an army they could act also as a cunning diplomats to raise an oppresion, find help, make alliances or to prepare a trap for an enemy.

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Originally Posted by Farflame
But its a little off topic on gaming forum. crazy

lol it is xD


Let us swim in this sea of fire, and hope that the demons of doubt do not drown us.

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Originally Posted by Unreal Warfare
On the contrary I actually like to hear what other people look for in games as I'm training to be a game designer.

Aha. That's why the interrogation and the lol'ing when I asked for something in return. Makes sense now.

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As for whether my needs are being catered to, well you don't really know what my needs are so I'm not sure you can make such a bold claim there just because I am a male.

I'm sorry, that did come out wrong. I judged by your extensive list of current games, rather than by your being male. I can only envy you for having so many choices. But it's still a truth, that most games target males, though. It's kind of understandable, too, because more males are gamers. I can't say I know a lot of geeks like me. We'll just have to wait and see if there'll be a shift in the future.

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Don't really see the big issue with guns and war personally (I suppose being in the Armed Forces has a lot to do with it).

That might be one of the cultural differences the other guy talked about. We're not that much into war. And don't start with that we had a war nearly a century ago, that's ancient history and we've been different since then. In our culture, the real heroes are for example the doctors without borders, who help patch back together the victims of other people's wars. Or the ones, who deny military service altogether and instead do alternative civilian service, helping people. I don't want to go too much off topic here, but there are indeed some cultural imprints that are just different. In other respects, too. Look at successful European games, they are mostly different to American ones. Different how? Judge for yourself.

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After all every game in some way or another is based on violence (bar some sports games, population sims, or music games) even games like Divinity 2 and Dragon Age.

Sadly, yes. But to some people it just matters if it's guns and bombs or swords and magic. In a fantasy setting, I can enjoy playing a hero with magical powers. But there are so many psychological aspects at play. Mostly the enemies are monsters and that's why I can be sure without any doubt that they are evil and I don't need to have any second thoughts. I like to have to fight mainly monsters, but even the humans I need to kill are clearly evil. Also, usually I am given some special powers, so my magical character is detached from the real world. And I don't have any chain of command, I am responsible only to myself. And in games where I have a choice, I more often than not fall into the role of the good guy... sometimes the bad girls have more fun, though and I try not to be miss goody two shoes all the time. Except when the alternative bores me. For example Black & White 2; building nice cities that appeal to the other tribes is much more satisfying to me than rounding up the men as cannon fodder and taking the villages by force. But they did something right with that game, there are real alternatives for how to win it.

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I understand the motion sickness thing but it seems to go a bit deeper than that with you.

Hm, I'm not sure I understand you. First off, I luckily don't suffer from motion sickness, but I know people who do. But I can't move around if I can't see myself. I simply cannot get my bearings when I'm disembodied. And I don't want to. It's not that I don't want to immerse myself into my character, but that I get a lot more enjoyment out of seeing "myself", if the toon is nice. And in reality almost everyone who playes those games isn't looking that remarkable themselves, but rather average. So why not identify with an avatar who isn't average? It's fun to me. I'm a big sucker for aesthetics. I wonder if it's different for men; in Risen they give you a terribly ugly character with a gorge the size of Mariana Trench on his face and call him 'handsome'. Do men feel better about themselves if they feel they look better in real life than their avatar? Serious question, don't intend to mock or anything.

Let me know if this is still being helpful or if it's too subjective to be useful for your studies. wink


PS: I dunno about the majority of players, but I personally am fed up with the modern games of the sort you play once (you 'beat it', hate that phrase) and discard it, never to be seen again. I like games that I still remember years after I've played them first and I go and replay them (Besides B&W, Fahrenheit comes to mind just now - Indigo Prophecy it was called in the US IIRC). I've played the Witcher about half a dozen times and it was different each time (other choices and difficulty mods). Really good games don't get old and aren't forgotten that easily. Maybe not the best thing for immediate sales, but it attracts loyal fanbases, which pays off in the long run.

Last edited by Microcroft; 07/01/10 01:42 PM.
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Originally Posted by Microcroft
That might be one of the cultural differences the other guy talked about. We're not that much into war. And don't start with that we had a war nearly a century ago, that's ancient history and we've been different since then. In our culture, the real heroes are for example the doctors without borders, who help patch back together the victims of other people's wars. Or the ones, who deny military service altogether and instead do alternative civilian service, helping people. I don't want to go too much off topic here, but there are indeed some cultural imprints that are just different. In other respects, too. Look at successful European games, they are mostly different to American ones. Different how? Judge for yourself.


For the record I'm European not American (assuming you think I'm an American). laugh

Quote
Hm, I'm not sure I understand you. First off, I luckily don't suffer from motion sickness, but I know people who do. But I can't move around if I can't see myself. I simply cannot get my bearings when I'm disembodied. And I don't want to. It's not that I don't want to immerse myself into my character, but that I get a lot more enjoyment out of seeing "myself", if the toon is nice. And in reality almost everyone who playes those games isn't looking that remarkable themselves, but rather average. So why not identify with an avatar who isn't average? It's fun to me. I'm a big sucker for aesthetics. I wonder if it's different for men; in Risen they give you a terribly ugly character with a gorge the size of Mariana Trench on his face and call him 'handsome'. Do men feel better about themselves if they feel they look better in real life than their avatar? Serious question, don't intend to mock or anything.


So in other words you just prefer third person viewpoint? So that you can see your character fully all of the time.

And you ask a good question. Though personally it's one I can't answer as in general I make a female avatar (I just prefer looking at a womens butt, sorry) though not nesseccarily a good looking one. I used to do alot of P&P when I was youger so in general I sit back and think about a characters background when making one, think of a name that has relevance etc. Make them look like they are what I invision them to be.

When I do play male characters if it's possible I put myself in the game using technology (like in Rainbow 6 Vegas, FIFA10, etc), or with a detailed character creation tool. I generally try and make it look as much like me as possible.

And try not to think of it as studies (I know I don't) it's just good conversation. smile

Last edited by Unreal Warfare; 07/01/10 01:52 PM.


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I must say, Oblivion indeed is lovely
AND
it have good/strong female NPC's, very good ! smile

But also D II have good female NPC's! Some are nice and pretty good!
I love Hermosa most of all women in D II :hihi:

And I wish to play D II again a choose a female character grin




On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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Originally Posted by Unreal Warfare
For the record I'm European not American (assuming you think I'm an American). laugh

I guess it's mainly that the American market for games is the biggest. And most successfull *sigh*. Not that they don't make great games, but a lot of it is just dispoable console trash. In my opinion.

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So in other words you just prefer third person viewpoint? So that you can see your character fully all of the time.

Definitely.
Want to have the choice.

What I don't like at all ist to be forced to do something by a game. It's about fun, not frustration. It's hard enough for me to compensate the handicap of bad fine motor skills in my left hand (actually both, but mouse is easier). Means I can't use the usual WASD controls. My usual workaround is to map forward to the LMB and backward to the MMB - then comes along an otherwise great game like DD2 and just takes away the use of the MMB. And Alt (I usually use it for jumping). Stuff like that makes me totally mad and I feel discriminated because I don't function like I'm 'supposed to'.

What I mean by that is that I set a great value on good customization of the controls and other aspects of gameplay, so I don't feel left out. And it's also a question of personal preference. If a develover thinks he wants to reinvent the wheel and do it differently, they should at least allow for the possibility for the player to adjust it to their personal needs. Not everybody adapts well. Or wants to.

Oh, and now that they coerced a lot of pc players to buy that weird XBox controller (idiotic, painful layout) with vatious games that refused to use generic controllers, they make a 180° turn and give us pc games that are ported from the console (why else only 8 quickslots?), but don't support any type of controller anymore. Because of some stupid company politics. That gets me unbelievably mad. And no, it will not get me to buy a console. That's just stuff that shouldn't happen. After all, it's the pc players that made those companies and now they couldn't care less about us anymore.

Oh dear, I'm rambling again. Shutting up now. ouch

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