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#69270 05/06/03 10:28 AM
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How to raise replayability? How to make your warrior more different from previous one?

How about bringing character outfit dependancies on allingment, even on his actions?

Idea is not new and unique, it was first implemented in Black and White.

In two words, the more good things you do, the more quests you solve in a good way the better you become. You start to look like a nice person, in bright colours, with positive face animations.

You know all those attributes in character outfit that make you decide whether character is good or evil.

And vice versae the more evil things you do the more evil-look you become, having eyes glowing with hate, prolly dark-red skinned, with lightnings sparking below your head. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


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Nice suggestion Egin. Your suggestion might have some limitations as in the size of the game, but nevertheless, very good suggestion. For example, if you were a thief, who would want to talk to u and help u out because you would be all dark and such.

later


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Right, because I am a thief, I am robbing people, not speaking to them.
People will react accordingly, so thief has his own strategy in achieving his goals (thieving, backstabbing, lockpicking). And people's attitude to thief is something different than for example attitude to a paladin. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Does it make sence?


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And if I am, lets say, mage from a black magic school, most people will run in fear after noticing me, only strong or dark hearted will talk to me.
This is the way of good and evil IMO. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />


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You forgot a colourful Aura. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />


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You forgot a colourful Aura. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />
yep, black mage school, and pickpocketing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />



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I don't really find the prospect appealing. We don't have a plague hanging from our neck, or a brand on our foreheads, to tell our alignment, now do we? Reputation, as is, is a lot more logical. (Maybe implement a counterpart. If you're with the thieves' guild, for example, you increase your "reputation" in the underworld.) Besides, evil people don't always look evil. You, of all people, should know that. What with TNO being zombie-like and can still persuade people using those dark, murky, charismatic eyes of his - irrespective of his alignment. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

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mmm but it would look good. i mean if u make a gme too realistic noone would want to play it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />


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Hi Winterfox,

Are you sure you really can't? It is often enough to just look at the person to see. And that are not only eyes that say.

But, sure, I agree, stating that:
- ohh I can say is he good or bad 100%, it's enough to just look at him -
is very childish and wrong. Nothing is 100% in RL.

This is much more complicated matter, as people use "masks" to hide their true nature.


But this is game. In a game/fantasy world attitude or nature can be underlined. It can become more visual, depencible on actions. Purpose? - fun, replayability, interaction.
Why not?

And auras will not hurt at all <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It is a concept. Thief will not be able to walk on the streets of the city during daylight. Citizens may recognize him and become hostile/call for guards.
He will have to sneak at night staying away from big streets. He is silent asassin, he doesn't has friends, his only friend is poisoned dagger, his best ally is night and shadows (and good examples are - Splinter Cell, Thief series).
And as far as reputation is concerned, you are absolutely right. Thief may have high reputation among thieves.
Can thief have honour and be therefore respected among people of honour?



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Are you sure you really can't? It is often enough to just look at the person to see. And that are not only eyes that say.


Disagreeable people can be good. People who dislike you (and thus stare at you with death glares) are not necessarily evil. So, no, I'd say that it can't be determined just by looking.

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And as far as reputation is concerned, you are absolutely right. Thief may have high reputation among thieves.
Can thief have honour and be therefore respected among people of honour?


There are some cases that men (okay, people, to be Politically Correct) of dark professions must have a, ah, trustworthy reputation. No one would want to hire a double-crossing, unreliable thief or assassin to do one's job, yes? That's one form of "honor". Another instance is that, if you are known as a skilled thief/assassin/what-have-you, people of the same profession are unlikely to cross you. So reputation is definitely important.

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mmm but it would look good. i mean if u make a gme too realistic noone would want to play it.


Oh, I do beg to differ. Overly "realistic" nuisances such as needing food and drink aside, I'm sure many people would want a game with a fair amount of realism. It can add depth to the story, even. (Opposing factions, actually getting hunted down for committing certain deeds, having options to join with a faction of your choice, actually having to persuade people to help you, et all.) There is a reason, after all, that some aspects of Morrowind appeal to some people. (Including me. A shame that the gameplay, once reaching a certain point, is completely gah.)

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Winterfox

<<<Besides, evil people don't always look evil. You, of all people, should know that. What with TNO being zombie-like and can still persuade people using those dark, murky, charismatic eyes of his - irrespective of his alignment.>>>


TNO is another story IMO.

First, he is still zombie-like, not angel like. Looking at him you barely can say his allingment is positive. Dead-skinned, tattoed and scared and actually people treated him according to his outfit.

People, who decided to join him, all had their own torments as TNO has his. They hoped, that walking his path, they can somehow solve their own troubles.

He just didn't care much for them and used them to achieve his goals. Even that girl Dejonarra, she loved him. TNO let her die just to give him possibility to escape Fortress of Regrets.

And last thing. Do you think art of persuation belongs to positive allingment?


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First, he is still zombie-like, not angel like. Looking at him you barely can say his allingment is positive. Dead-skinned, tattoed and scared and actually people treated him according to his outfit.


Of course. People, despite what they pretend, take things at face value first, for it is appearance that they first encounter.

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People, who decided to join him, all had their own torments as TNO has his. They hoped, that walking his path, they can somehow solve their own troubles.


IMO, most people use and manipulate each other to some extent. If you love someone, you want to be with him/her not only for his/her happiness, but also yours. It is a form of selfishness. Another thing is that, if they didn't at least care a little for TNO, they wouldn't have joined him in the case of Morte, FFG, and Annah.

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He just didn't care much for them and used them to achieve his goals. Even that girl Dejonarra, she loved him. TNO let her die just to give him possibility to escape Fortress of Regrets.


Ah, but that's the Practical Incarnation, is it not?

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And last thing. Do you think art of persuation belongs to positive allingment?


Hardly. I said, irrespective of alignment. Charisma can come in any form, with anyone. It is just a trait, nothing more.

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Disagreeable people can be good. People who dislike you (and thus stare at you with death glares) are not necessarily evil. So, no, I'd say that it can't be determined just by looking. >>>>

Okies, defending my idea futher, here is another argument. Trying to bring the concept into the game, being evil guy, looking like evil guy (dark skinned, dark clothed, surrounded by black auras or whatever) he still can smile nicely, looking at you with his glowing red eyes, he still can persuade, like that snake persuaded Eva in Eden <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The question is, how deeply developers will want to bring this concept into life?
How people will react to different outfits?
How outfits will depend, and in what way, on different actions and general allingment?



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Of course. People, despite what they pretend, take things at face value first, for it is appearance that they first encounter.

Yes, and this is what I wanted to say.

<<IMO, most people use and manipulate each other to some extent. If you love someone, you want to be with him/her not only for his/her happiness, but also yours. It is a form of selfishness. Another thing is that, if they didn't at least care a little for TNO, they wouldn't have joined him in the case of Morte, FFG, and Annah. >>>>

Hmm, fiendling girl and thiefling had some feelings towards TNO. So they cared. They cared because they knew if he fails they fail also.

But, still all of them wanted to stay with him (even rogue modron), after accomplishing their goals. That's because he changed and they have changed also finding relief of their torments.
Look at my signature <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It is wrong at this point.


About selfishness of feelings. Ohh, yes, you right, I can add even more. People care on themselves first and on their beloved ones second.
One kind of black example, when beloved one passes away, what first thing people say ? - How will I live without her/him. (revisited - how will me and my ego live without), so they regret about themselves having hard times, not about their beloved ones. But, again, this is not 100% pure truth, this is RL.


Ah, but that's the Practical Incarnation, is it not?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> exactly.

<<<Hardly. I said, irrespective of alignment. Charisma can come in any form, with anyone. It is just a trait, nothing more.>>>>>>

Right, it is a tool, like cooking knife. You can cut tomatoes and God knows what else, depencible on your alingment, readiness for action, feelings, like hate etc.



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I was thinking, good and evil are very fine lines.

Consider the dwarfs and the elves. Both are good, noble races, interested in keeping their own affairs. But bad stuff happens and they each accuse the other of being evil and comitting crimes against them. If you took up the dwarfs side, the elves would see you as a colaborator of evil. The dwarfs, on the other hand, would see you as a champion of the forces of good.

Good and evil is subjective. I think the guy that wants to cut off my phone is evil, even though I'm sure he's just a good person doing his job.

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what about orcs and demons? There some of my closest alies! But there what most people call F**K**G evil!



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Good and evil is subjective. I think the guy that wants to cut off my phone is evil, even though I'm sure he's just a good person doing his job.


Yes! *heart* Where were you when Setharmon was slamming, "Good and evil are like black and white, period" on the debate table? (My eyes have been stuck in a rolling loop since.)

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You become such a nice person that your so bright you blind everyone while the evil theif steals from the blind and now poor. Then to ruin everything and have evil triumph again, the theif kills the good person with the bright aura. What an ending.....


This is SpArTa!! oh im sorry, I must have took a wrong turn..somewhere...(runs away)
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the orcs arent evil just misunderstood. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> and anyway they are hounerable people they have been exploited by their leaders and the Black Ring. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />


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If there's rainbows and strips along with pokadots on my warrior character, i'll kill myself!!!


This is SpArTa!! oh im sorry, I must have took a wrong turn..somewhere...(runs away)
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