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#415111 01/07/10 09:07 AM
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elk Offline OP
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so yeah, I can't explain what I've been through trying to figure out how much experience you get for killing an enemy (taking into acct your pc's lvl and the enemy's lvl), can't rip up the dat file for it, can't use ingame data, as in actually killing enemies, for it (the values are being rounded, meaningless for creating a function), and I was wondering if anyone knew, or could point me to a more accurate method of finding the formula used for kill exp.

Also...hard mode. Did they actually test that...or just throw it in as a joke? Basically requires you to exploit either (both for good measure) the game's hilariously unpatched imbalances or the AI. Honestly...why? You'll get torn apart if you try to play a warrior as an actual warrior...unless you've got a freeze wpn lol

multiplied by 10...ridiculous. The power of the mobs doesn't go down when you turn the difficulty down either, at least after they've spawned.

Last edited by elk; 01/07/10 09:08 AM.
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Hi.
Yeah, It it would be fun (I really like statistics and calculations) to know how the experience is calculated. I can't find anything by searching for it here in the forums.


I'm playing in hard mode right now as a warrior (actual warrior) and i don't use freeze... Yeah it's a little challenging sometimes but it's not impossible! (and that's how it's supposed to be)
I had only (real) problems with some bosses, giant heavy orc and lizard mages. But then it's fun when u beat them, with different tactics. I use swords with health and mana drain, and i use the restoration skill... Works fine for me.

HERE is more about the different difficulties.

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Hm. I guess I'll let this comparison speak my mind in regard to your post, singo.

On normal, one of those flaming skeleton bosses that wonders about the SE Dark Forest does 39-123 damage, and has 2000-2700 health.
On hard, the same does 210-630 damage, and has about 5000 health (armor and otherwise also boosted most likely).

Said skeleton boss is not the hardest hitting mob even before ringing the gong (pretty high on the list, however, IIRC). In the wasteland, mobs hitting similarly are as common as flies. That's 420 damage EVERY HIT on avg. You mean to tell me that you melee this monstrosity down? I've melee'd those lizard mages you mentioned in the post above myself (I'm playing a hard game and have gotten a bit fed up with a few things). They do 144-400some damage. You're basically praying for them to just cast spells, because it's nothing compared to their attacks, which will kill you in seconds. And they take FOREVER to go down, even to a 94-140 damage sword, life drain value of (4).

So yeah...tell me more about your char, I guess, or these "tactics" you speak of. I must be doing something (like the math of even the most extreme possibilities) very wrong, cuz I just don't see how it could work. (I consider scorp traps and freeze wpns completely off limits, btw...I'll reload for a spellbook in front of clustered bookcases/shelves of 3 or more though lol, but no less than three chances per reload).

OH, and also, plz don't forget about my lvling question people...

Last edited by elk; 01/07/10 04:52 PM.
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I don't recall if I checked this in Divine Divinity (think it's the same), but when looking at the level dependence of experience in Beyond Divinity, I just divided the experience received for a particular creature by the experience when the character level was the same as the creature's level, to be able to check the pattern across different creatures.

Act 2 - not getting exp in BF (also included in the math appendix of the Beyond Divinity Strategy Guide).


I didn't find the rounding of values a great inconvenience, you just need to get data points over as large a range as possible, and then double check that your best fit function matches the actual results when the calculated value is either rounded off or rounded down.
You can use iZakaroN's SaveEditor (or from Kiya's site, with description), if you are not already, to raise a character to a specific level and give them enough stats to survive a much higher level opponent, etc.

differences between classes (minor spoilers)

Early Starter Tips (NON-Spoiler Version) (contains much of the information in the above topic)

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I'm pretty sure that the Beyond Divinity formula doesn't apply, I know for sure that the exp negation over 8 lvls doesn't, and if the gains were completely exponential, then killing a lvl 45 mob at lvl 1 would reward a incomprehensible amount of exp (rather than just 44,000). I suspect that there are exponents in the function, whatever it may be, but that they are pretty staggered. But I'll doublecheck that 8 lvl business right now.

Ugh, I was hoping there'd be some super sekrit file that'd list the function as it applies to every mob...if I actually start building a dataset for hypotheses I might kill myself lol. I guess it might be somewhere in the .000 files, but they come back as gibberish no matter how I try to read them, and I sure don't wanna learn to use DOS to do it.

As for the beginner tips: lolz. I think I got a grip on that stuff, I was just wondering if people who had played hard in depth shared my awe, but I guess not. I still think it's ridiculous, dunno if I'm going to continue, given what I've been resorting to for killing bosses (lotsa burning wall).

edit: yup, I killed a lvl 11 orc with a lvl 26 pc and got 269 exp. However, I got nothing for a lvl 9 orc. Didn't try lvl 10, having exterminated all members of that lvl lol

Last edited by elk; 01/07/10 07:38 PM.
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Well i can admit that you are right about the insane skeleton bosses, they one-hit me when i was there. And so did the lizard mages. But fortunately i didn't need to be there so often.

And I admit that I make sure my char has high enough to make each area i'm going to.

As my character:
1, i spend a lot of time finding good armor with much str, agi and con bonus.
2, I spend most of my points to strength.
3, I use armor boost skill. Augment Defense.
4, I use potions, some times i use about 6 potions for some kind of boss. (or more)
5, In though areas i'm try to fight max 1 or 2 at a time.

I just arrived to wastelands so i have not reached the black ring cave, but i got no problems with imps nor the sand demons (exept snad devils, they can surprise but hitting 80% if my hp). ( so dos imp chieftains too)
To kill Dragon riders I need 2-3 potions.

i'm lvl 39, got 150str, 130 agility, 10 intelligence and 70 constitution. (with boosts from the armor)
500 hp and 270 mana.
(Rounded numbers)


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In BD I only checked experience 10 levels below the opponent's level, and wouldn't expect the exponential relation to extrapolate far beyond the range of 3-10 levels lower. The problem with determining the function, is that it could be a single function, or several different functions depending on the level difference, with a cap that is set (more than X levels above and you get no experience) or built-in (the function itself goes to zero or negative values). Presumably if the function itself doesn't level off for much lower levels, there would be some kind of check that limits the experience you can get.

I would guess the default experience values are stored somewhere (maybe with the creature stats?) giving the experience when the character is at the same level, and that value is modified by the level difference function. You could search the data.000 file, or the game files in general, for the hex value of a late game opponent's experience (as large a value as possible will reduce the number of matches).

Teleporting Anywhere, via hex editor

Reviving dead NPCs

The starter tips topic was habit, listed with the differences between classes topic for anyone else reading this who may want to avoid minor spoilers.

Playing a warrior on normal difficulty I used Burning Wall (from a spellbook found in Mardaneus' house IIRC) for the spider at the bottom of the catacombs and the first heavy orc you run into south of Aleroth, but that was it. With my archer on hard, though, I didn't get much farther than I described in the topic Singo linked to before becoming busy and/or distracted. In general the game tends to get easier as it progresses, though.

There are various techniques you can use against strong opponents (some of which are as much exploits as Frost on a weapon or scorpion traps).

Share your monster killin' tricks

Chasing Josie... techniques for defeating Josephine

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hah, I remember that spider. I returned to the Aleroth Catacombs at lvl 20something with great gear thinking of revenge on the skeleton bosses that I had left behind. I was a little overconfident apparently, and while I plowed through everything else, that spider made short work of me the first time, prompting a reload and the usual cheap tactics.
I'm not saying in any sense that hard is impossible (or even hard, if you're really cautious and have a scorpion army), but that the things you will resort to (it doesn't really get easier till you have 3-4 gold vit charms and maxed resists, and even then you can get 1shotted) seem like things that developers of other games would scramble to wall off, given their deviation in gameplay nature as well as numerical values. Kinda ruins it for me.

Last edited by elk; 01/07/10 09:31 PM.
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Yeah...couldn't find relevant values with an editor, BUT...it's not exactly like I've taken my Computer Science III. I guess it will probably remain a mystery then.

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Just adding something to this as I've been playing around with Hard mode a lot recently.

Pure melee is downright unplayable at the beginning, yes. It's only feasible if you complement it with missiles or offensive spells. But where did you get the idea that you'd have to be able to wade into a mob and survive on the highest difficulty level?

Archery skills are part of the warrior skill set for a reason. Hit and run tactics are indispensable for taking down mobs. After all, you are controlling a single character, not an entire party.

Warrior characters are still pretty nifty for their survivability, which is extremely crucial on Hard mode (especially if you play without reloads). If you add in some archery or survivor skills they can definitely hold their own. Don't ever expect your mouse fingers to get any rest on Hard mode though.

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Originally Posted by elk
hah, I remember that spider. I returned to the Aleroth Catacombs at lvl 20something with great gear thinking of revenge on the skeleton bosses that I had left behind. I was a little overconfident apparently, and while I plowed through everything else, that spider made short work of me the first time, prompting a reload and the usual cheap tactics.
I'm not saying in any sense that hard is impossible (or even hard, if you're really cautious and have a scorpion army), but that the things you will resort to (it doesn't really get easier till you have 3-4 gold vit charms and maxed resists, and even then you can get 1shotted) seem like things that developers of other games would scramble to wall off, given their deviation in gameplay nature as well as numerical values. Kinda ruins it for me.


The Spider in the Aleroth Catacombs isn't TOO hard !
I kill the spider on Hard difficulty and without having an scorpion or other summoning creature.
I was level 9 or 10 (max!) ...
Okay, I must take a few health potions ... but further on nothing extra.

The thing is : "think about it ...." : "What's possible a weak spot of a spider?" Fire? Yes, Meteorestrike is usefull against a spider! But I used the Lightning Spell ! Very usefull against spiders smile ... Okay, Lightning use much more Mana, but if you are well prepaired (that means have enough potions, but also have at least 1 free Skillpoint...), that wouldn't be any problem wink

Last edited by Joram; 02/08/10 12:54 PM.

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Originally Posted by Joram

The Spider in the Aleroth Catacombs isn't TOO hard !
I kill the spider on Hard difficulty and without having an scorpion or other summoning creature.
I was level 9 or 10 (max!) ...
Okay, I must take a few health potions ... but further on nothing extra.

The thing is : "think about it ...." : "What's possible a weak spot of a spider?" Fire? Yes, Meteorestrike is usefull against a spider! But I used the Lightning Spell ! Very usefull against spiders smile ... Okay, Lightning use much more Mana, but if you are well prepaired (that means have enough potions, but also have at least 1 free Skillpoint...), that wouldn't be any problem wink


You were level 10, because that's the first level Lightning is available to put skill points into. I also should note that you can't reach level 10 from just the catacombs, you also need to clear a bunch of the forest around Aleroth as well.

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Originally Posted by Stabbey

You were level 10, because that's the first level Lightning is available to put skill points into. I also should note that you can't reach level 10 from just the catacombs, you also need to clear a bunch of the forest around Aleroth as well.


Okay, level 10 or maybe 11, you're right, level 9 can't be ... eek

No, I can't reach level 10 doing only Aleroth and the Catacombs ...
:hihi: But yeah,
why NOT going outside Aleroth and killing Orcs??? biggrin It's an RPG and a seemless world to GO !! Last I was just level 2 and going killing some Orcs biggrin ... nearby death, but that's my problem hahaha



On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !

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