Larian Studios Forums Divine Divinity (English) General Please tell me this is a mistake...

/rant on

Ok, do I HAVE to put a point into pickpocket just to get that damn necklace of sweeny's without killing him? If so, IMO, thats BS. This is the kind of thing I was talking about in my first post in the suggestions forum. I'm forced to waste a point in a skill that I will NEVER use just to do a friggin quest. Why must video games do this kind of thing? I'm really sick of it...

/rant off

Ok, could someone give me a spoiler of all the skills that I'll be forced to have a point in to complete quests (expirience, as we all know, is a finite thing in this game unfortunatly)? I want to be prepared.

Nope you dont HAVE to put a point in it. You can search for itmes that give a +1 to the skill <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Can't you just trade with him to get the necklace, too? I believe it's in his inventory.

Also, you can get two sets of Dragonplate this way, by buying it from the Dwarven Smith after he makes it for you. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

Well, I just bit the bullet and put a point into pickpocket and went for it. Not a big deal, I guess. It was just the principle of the thing really. Unfortunatly you can't buy the necklace from him and I didn't want to hunt and peck around for something that gave me a point of pickpocket. Oh well, I got expirience for doing it.

You could just put a point in poison cloud and kill him without losing reputation points and get the loot. Then hop on over to Ars Magica and kill the merchants that you don't need and won't let you loot (that annoying potion guy for example). I got a beautiful amulet with 5 charm slots in one of his chests (no reloads either!), and some other minor treasure.

Thanks for the tip, but what I was really angry about was having to invest a point in a non-warrior skill (I'm a warrior <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />) that I'll never use again. Poison cloud wouldn't be any different. It all kinda related back to my two suggestions for the game I made on the suggestions forum.

Anyways, I rescued Penumbra, got the dagger, got the book, and got a painful treatment in the brothel. Thats the last time I let a woman do that to me just for some extra expirience! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

You mean... you have no points in Identify or Lockpicks? Are you insane?!

My survivor has skillpoints all over the place. She has like 11 warrior skills maxed, 10 mage skills maxed and 12 survivor skills maxed. A lot of that is also due to items though...

Points in lockpick, sadly, yes. Points in identify, no. Why waste points in that when I can pay 100 gold to have someone else do it. I'm a WARRIOR, I can't even spell my name...

I don't think games should force you in any way to branch out of a class just to be viable. Total success should be attainable with a pure warrior/mage/survivor.

Instead of rehashing all this, go read my post in the suggestions forum "Two suggestions for a very promising game series".

You also don't have to do the quest either. No one says you have to become a member of the thieves guild. I managed to do the quest because I was lucky enough to find 2 items that each gave +1 pickpocket. Probably the only reason I did it.

I thought part of the entire charm of Divine Divinity was that your character doesn't look exactly the same as every other fighter, mage or thief out there. Your character is unique, it represents who you are, what you have learned, what you're interested in, your own special playing style and maybe even your own self. I mean, it doesn't get any cooler than that.

To be honest, I've been used to the D&D style, where warriors are warriors and will never cast spells, and where mages are mages and will never sneak in the darkness. But to think in strictly class vs. class terms is limiting, it's unrealistic, and it's also bad roleplaying sometimes. Why shouldn't a warrior be intelligent, witty, and wise? I mean, a pure orcish brute might not be able to identify a great axe when he sees it, but a warrior wise in the ways of lore would recognize a divine sword and its special properties as soon as he or she sees it. That's just my 2 cents though, you don't have to buy it.

Ahem...expirience is a finite thing you know. It's bad enough that I feel like I have to be a backstabbing moron and do EVERY quest. As in I help the town guard in one quest, and then steal from them the next. I love DD, but I still think the Role-Playing element suffers a little because I feel compeled to soak up precious expirience by doing every quest imagainable, even the illegal ones.

Nothing wrong with a game allowing you to do these things. I have a problem when a game FORCES you to do them just to be successful, like Divine Divinity and many other games do.

And for that matter, when a game lets you do everything, why have classes? Ever played Morrowind? You can literally master every skill in that game. Every skill! Therefore the classes are meaningless. Just make a custom class, call him a "Superman" and go at it. Contrary to how it may seem, limits and structure in games are there for a reason.

Like I said, go read that post I made in the suggestions forum. Its a lot more detailed and maybe you can see what I mean.

Oh and by the way, I bet I sound picky. Yes, I'm VERY picky. I want to be able to play a character that sticks to one class' set of skills. No branching out unless I want to. Picky, sure. Unrealistic, I don't think so. Why not? If you let a pure class character be successful, it stands to reason that one that branches out will be successful as well.

Er, okay. So stick to warrior class skills. Like someone else said, you don't need to join the thieves' guild (it lowers your reputation, too), and experience is abundant enough that by the time you get to the Wastelands, you're so incredibly powerful that you don't really need to be more than 40th level to beat the game.

I understand the concept of more distinctions between classes, but I think that if Larian expanded upon the "special abilities" of each classes and included more than one, people would immediately see more differences between the classes. Also, there are some subtle differences as well, such as survivors gain more defense than offense for each dexterity point, warriors gain more offense than defense, and mages gain a smaller but more equal amount of both.

If you insist on roleplaying, keep in mind that you're trying to join the thieves' guild, which itself implies that you have to be skilled in thievery. I mean, you didn't think that your entrance exam to the thieves' guild was casting meteorstrike or killing orcs, did ya? So, Larian did the right thing by having pickpocket as an requirement if you want to join the guild.

You have some good points:

1. There are ways that Larian could further distinguish the classes, thereby strengthning them. Multiple class special abilities is a good one.

2. You make a good point about role playing. No, I didn't have to do that quest. Yeah, I am joining the thieves guild, so I should have theif skills right?

My point:

I here the word "Josephina" and "imps" thrown around this forum all the time in discussing how hard they are. Rose, have you ever played a game in which you developed a character, had fun developing his skills, only to find that by the end of the game, your character was stuck because he or she couldn't kill a boss or finish a certain quest because he or she had the wrong skills?

I have had that happen. Several times. Frankly, it sucks. I'd like a little peace of mind in knowing that my charatcer will potentially be able to finish the game. Solution: Make it so that I can invest my points in one set of skills (yes! one set! No need for my warrior to lock pick, throw meteors, summon, etc.) and still have the potential to beat the game.

Thats all I'm getting at. If you want to make a warrior/theif/wizard/pizza delivery guy/window washer as your character, do it! Have fun! But still let me know that my pure warrior, wizard, or thief won't have to become anything else just to survive or kill a potentially difficult boss later in the game.

Now tell me, If we can both do it our way, where am I wrong? You can branch out, I can stick to my warrior, we can both succeed. Sounds good to me...

pizza delivery guy....

what sort of skills would that have ingame? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

None, whatsoever. Except maybe elven stamina. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

*shrug* The beauty of the game is in experimenting with different skills. You can say that Larian designed the game so that classes can use skills from different "paths" -- that's why they're not called class skills but rather paths, IMO.

There are all kinds of hints like "invest some points in enchant weapon" that apply to Survivors and Mages as well. IMO the warrior is the only class who can actually put ONLY points into warrior skills and still finish the game successfully. Just buy a lot of restoration potions, get some good armor, a good weapon and you're all set.

Anyway, the different skills as they are right now are not completely balanced, so that's why you run into problems when you only focus on ones for a specific class (elven sight vs. ranger sight, elven sight obviously is way better). This is a problem that will hopefully be resolved, but I still think that the skill system should be left as it is right now.

Elevn Stamina for speed. Meteor Strike for keeping the pizza warm. Mace Expertise to ensure they pay.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />I wish the class system was thrown out. To make a character how you see fit is more fun and have an optional class system for the yo joe average ie. warrior class. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />

I guess we've come full circle then. All I'm saying is this: "Allow experimentation and diversification, don't REQUIRE it"

I like games where you have strict classes. You can go through the game and say "Ah, this is how it feels going through as a mage/warrior/etc." But I don't mind games that let you branch out either, as long as I don't have to.

Yes, the skills are called paths, but there are most definatly 3 different classes - 6 if you count male and female.

If you want us to expiriment don't make classes. Gothic is a good example of a game that doesn't have classes. You are what you learn. I haven't played gothic yet (bought it yesterday), but rest assured If I want to be a warrior or mage or whatever and I find that I can't do that and that I must be a hybrid, then I will have the same complaints.

Is it really that hard? To me this is a win/win situation. You can satisfy people like me and those who want to diversify! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />