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Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Gwenio] #424048
07/11/10 03:36 PM
07/11/10 03:36 PM
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Poko Offline
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I just want to know, is there any refund procedure?

30fps make me sick! I will not buy and play any games that capped at 30dps.


Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Poko] #424067
07/11/10 05:00 PM
07/11/10 05:00 PM
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KnightPT Offline
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Originally Posted by Poko
I just want to know, is there any refund procedure?

30fps make me sick! I will not buy and play any games that capped at 30dps.



With all due respect did you actualy read the entire thread? Larian has already stated officialy they are fixing it.


I already lost count of games released with so drasticaly worse problems than this "30 FPS lock" and still people had to wait for a fix and those games were from a much much larger publishers.


My personal advice is to stop playing the game and wait for a fix. This game is marvelous and is worth much more than a personal whine on the forums about a 30 FPS lock. If, for medical reasons you can't realy play the game, just wait a couple weeks. The 30 FPS is noticeable but not realy all that bad as most people want to whine on the forums and make it look like its a software holocaust.

I know people have the "right" to complain when they are unhappy, but please, have everything under moderation...

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: KnightPT] #424119
07/11/10 08:36 PM
07/11/10 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by KnightPT
Originally Posted by Poko
I just want to know, is there any refund procedure?

30fps make me sick! I will not buy and play any games that capped at 30dps.



With all due respect did you actualy read the entire thread? Larian has already stated officialy they are fixing it.


I already lost count of games released with so drasticaly worse problems than this "30 FPS lock" and still people had to wait for a fix and those games were from a much much larger publishers.


My personal advice is to stop playing the game and wait for a fix. This game is marvelous and is worth much more than a personal whine on the forums about a 30 FPS lock. If, for medical reasons you can't realy play the game, just wait a couple weeks. The 30 FPS is noticeable but not realy all that bad as most people want to whine on the forums and make it look like its a software holocaust.

I know people have the "right" to complain when they are unhappy, but please, have everything under moderation...


It is bad, it is the # 1 thing in a game that bothers me. A low frame rate is not enjoyable at all.

You may not mind, but other are bothered a lot by the 30FPS cap. Who do you think you are to tell people what should bug them?

If it does not bother you, congratz to you for having a bad computer (as you are use to low Frame Rates). Or you have eyes/Brain that does not allow you to perceive the huge difference.

These are very valid complaints, and I would take bugs, crashes, ot broken quests in a heart beat over a 30FPS cap.

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: KnightPT] #424155
07/11/10 11:45 PM
07/11/10 11:45 PM
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Poko Offline
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Originally Posted by KnightPT
Originally Posted by Poko
I just want to know, is there any refund procedure?

30fps make me sick! I will not buy and play any games that capped at 30dps.



With all due respect did you actualy read the entire thread? Larian has already stated officialy they are fixing it.


I already lost count of games released with so drasticaly worse problems than this "30 FPS lock" and still people had to wait for a fix and those games were from a much much larger publishers.


My personal advice is to stop playing the game and wait for a fix. This game is marvelous and is worth much more than a personal whine on the forums about a 30 FPS lock. If, for medical reasons you can't realy play the game, just wait a couple weeks. The 30 FPS is noticeable but not realy all that bad as most people want to whine on the forums and make it look like its a software holocaust.

I know people have the "right" to complain when they are unhappy, but please, have everything under moderation...


Dude, not really all that bad? maybe you get used to play PC game on a very low end spec computer.

It make me headache!

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: KnightPT] #424210
08/11/10 08:18 AM
08/11/10 08:18 AM
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Crazy9000 Offline
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Originally Posted by KnightPT


With all due respect did you actualy read the entire thread? Larian has already stated officialy they are fixing it.


I already lost count of games released with so drasticaly worse problems than this "30 FPS lock" and still people had to wait for a fix and those games were from a much much larger publishers.


My personal advice is to stop playing the game and wait for a fix. This game is marvelous and is worth much more than a personal whine on the forums about a 30 FPS lock. If, for medical reasons you can't realy play the game, just wait a couple weeks. The 30 FPS is noticeable but not realy all that bad as most people want to whine on the forums and make it look like its a software holocaust.

I know people have the "right" to complain when they are unhappy, but please, have everything under moderation...


I don't think you understand, some of us aren't just complaining because the game is a little bit choppy. For me, 30fps is literally too laggy to be able to play. I've lowered settings in games before because I was hitting 57 FPS in spots, and the lag bothered me.

The 30fps cap leaves me with an unplayable game, it feels like I'm watching a slide show. I can't even stand being in the main menu, because it runs at 30fps too. I wasn't aware of this issue before buying the game, and now wished I hadn't, or had at least waited until there was a fix. There's probably a ton more people who aren't computer savvy enough to check a framerate, and just think their computer sucks. I know I tried lowering settings before realizing nothing helped.

Hopefully someone comes with a fix soon, so I can actually play the game.

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Lar_q] #424213
08/11/10 08:30 AM
08/11/10 08:30 AM
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Ducky Offline
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I would humbly suggest a simple thing for starters.

If I got it right, the 30FPS might be down to an issue with nvidia card.

Why not lock it at 30fps if nvidia card is the main Graphic card?

And then allow for an unlock in the option if the users have an ATI as the main card.

Granted, it would not be a final fix, but at least, it would maybe fix the issue for Ati/AMD users smile.

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Ducky] #424222
08/11/10 09:05 AM
08/11/10 09:05 AM
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melianos Offline

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Originally Posted by Ducky

If I got it right, the 30FPS might be down to an issue with nvidia card.

And then allow for an unlock in the option if the users have an ATI as the main card.

That problem il sadly not only for nvidia users (I have it with an ATI card).

Last edited by melianos; 08/11/10 09:05 AM.
Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Ducky] #424223
08/11/10 09:14 AM
08/11/10 09:14 AM
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I bought this game a little while ago and I'll have to say that I'm extremely dissappointed. My first reaction to the 30 FPS cap was that my machine wasn't really enough to power this game, so I lowered all settings to low and wanted to gradually increase them til I got a playable framrate - but that wasn't really going to happen.

After searching half the internet for this problem I stumbled accross this thread, which obviously shows that there really isn't that much of an interest to fix this issue - since it's still "playable"...

Well, to me it isn't and I'm really not interested to have to play this game with basicly blood in my tear tear canals.

The sad thing is that I actually chose to support the developer and pay for a game that in reallity isn't playable, imho I should have downloaded the game first and tried it out before buying it - which I probably wouldn't have if I'd noticed these severe framerate problems.

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Faracon] #424236
08/11/10 10:24 AM
08/11/10 10:24 AM
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Lar_q Offline

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We obviously underestimated the impact this would have for certain players, so we're working on delivering you hotfix as fast as we can (this week still) which allows you to tweak the settings of the game to your liking. We'll do this by exposing configuration files which allow you to modify certain aspects of the engine such as for instance the lock, but also other things which could be helpful with people who are playing it on very low system specs.

At the same time we're working on a more durable solution which would become part of a patch that doesn't require you to modify a configuration file. That will take some more work however.

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Lar_q] #424261
08/11/10 12:00 PM
08/11/10 12:00 PM
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Just registered to say that is fantastic news Lar_q, exactly what I wanted to hear. Thanks =)

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Acheron] #424265
08/11/10 12:10 PM
08/11/10 12:10 PM
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Ducky Offline
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For those having the problem, can you try changing your anti-aliasing type/options in the driver themselves.

I recall some very similar issues with quite a few dx9 games over dx10/dx11, which was down to the way anti-aliasing was sent.

Just a thought smile

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Ducky] #424289
08/11/10 12:53 PM
08/11/10 12:53 PM
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EternalWinds Offline
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As much as the framerate can induce a mild headache, it isn't that much of a problem at all.

To be honest, the human eye doesn't see at a framerate at all - we see in full realtime, at infinite "frames" per second. There are no frames, for we are not computers. smile

Yes, I would prefer either no lock or a higher one, and I thought it strange that my PC seemed to not be able to handle the game being pretty high-spec, but that's why gameplay and story should never be ignored over graphics. When I got into it, framerate was long forgotten.


If the frame rate was fixed this game would annihilate the minds of lesser mortals, so be careful what you do Larian - there could well be fatalities.

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: EternalWinds] #424414
08/11/10 07:05 PM
08/11/10 07:05 PM
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Ducky, the 30fps issue is not a technical issue with individual machines. It is an intentional coded cap by the developers. Regardless of your card or your system specifications, nothing will remedy the issue without intervention from the developers in the form of a hotfix patch.

As Lar (who is from Larian) has now pointed out in this thread, they are working on a hotfix for the issue. For those who manage to get hold of a hotfix, I would personally like to hear how it has made any difference as and when it's released, as for now, Steam have refunded my cost of this game. I will purchase it again once I know I can play it at a higher framrerate.

As for "humans dont see a framerate" - the majority of LCD widescreen PC monitors refresh at 60hz. If the framerate is less than 60fps then your screen is skipping those frames. In this game it is running at 30fps, so on my screen it is effectively skipping every other frame. The effect of this is that it reduces how smooth the movement appears. Most games offer up a "Vsync" option (its there in the new verson but it is essentially disabled) this forces the game to perform at no higher than the monitor's refresh rate (usually 60). Only when your PC's performance is unable to keep up with the resources necessary to produce those 60 frames each second will you see it begin to skip animating some frames, this sometimes is referred to as "visual lag".

As this game currently caps at 30fps, it is in a continuous state of so called "visual lag". The whole theory has nothing to do with how fast our eyes can respond to what is put in front of them on-screen, it is simply a case of how (in this game) the frames are rendered. For those who try to compare TV or video replaying at 25 or 30fps to how this game displays it, well, there is no comparison as video blends frames together to provide a blur effect in between frames to produce a more fluid replay. This was never on purpose it's just the way it is. Some video games do this using "motion blur", and those games, like Crysis and other games where you have an option to increase or decrease this effect can get away with rendering lower frame rates and still give you a sense of smoothness despite getting less than your monitor's refresh rate.

Even some games on consoles have a blur effect, or some way of decieving the eye into believing they are seeing things smoother than they really are. I have an XBOX 360 which I play games on using the very same monitor which I play my PC games on. Even though I know they are running at less than 60fps, I can play them without any issue. Yet every single PC game I have ever played that ran at less than 60fps and had NO method of motion blur (or something similar) I have taken issue with, and struggle to play them for any length of time.

So, good luck to Larian and I really do hope they manage to find a fix. The original Divinity 2 was a very good game, even good enough to make me pay for it almost twice over for this new version. I guess I am just unlucky to be one of the first to buy it and find out. Usually I get to be the one finding out about issues before I spend my money. But I will buy the game again 100% when the fix comes. In the meantime, I have surgery in a few days and I will enjoy playing Divine Divinity (again) on my little netbook while I am stuck in the Hospital! laugh

Last edited by DiceDuP; 08/11/10 07:09 PM.
Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: DiceDuP] #424424
08/11/10 07:31 PM
08/11/10 07:31 PM
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Ducky Offline
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To clarify, I believe the 30Fps capped frame issue is hard-coded because of issues nvidia users were having smile.

I don't see the 30fps as a technical issue, but I believe it was a fix implemented because nvidia had issues with the game.

sorry if I misworded it, english is not my mothertongue smile

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Ducky] #424441
08/11/10 08:28 PM
08/11/10 08:28 PM
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I meant we, as humans, aren't viewing the world around us in 60fps, since our eyes aren't refreshing data every second like a monitor.

Now, that doesn't mean to say you couldn't get mathematical and say, "actually we do see at 6,000,000 frames per second since that's how long it takes for a neuron to transmit blah blah", but then that's just a side effect of existing in a reality with time that can be measured.

Basically 30 or 60 fps, i'm fine with either. Stutter just makes it slightly less enjoyable. smile

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: EternalWinds] #424445
08/11/10 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by EternalWinds
I meant we, as humans, aren't viewing the world around us in 60fps, since our eyes aren't refreshing data every second like a monitor.

Now, that doesn't mean to say you couldn't get mathematical and say, "actually we do see at 6,000,000 frames per second since that's how long it takes for a neuron to transmit blah blah", but then that's just a side effect of existing in a reality with time that can be measured.

Basically 30 or 60 fps, i'm fine with either. Stutter just makes it slightly less enjoyable. smile


Different people have different tolerance for low FPS. I don't know if you're just born like that, or if it's something you learn through experience. My neighbor wasn't able to tell a game was lagging when it was running at 20fps, and didn't understand why I would want to turn settings down. Since you've admitted you can tell the difference, just try to realize that for some of us, the difference is larger or much more noticeable. Would you play the game if it only got 15fps?

Anyways it is good to see the developer is taking an interest in this issue. I'll just check back next week and hope there is a patch ready by then so I can start playing this game (it looks fun). A week is acceptable to wait for a patch for me.

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Crazy9000] #424487
08/11/10 10:51 PM
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the 30 fps cap wouldn't bug me if it actually fixed the micro stutters. d2:ed has the same issues with the micro stutters without the fps cap, and surprise the problem is back still. whats the deal?

Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: mikes] #424609
09/11/10 07:49 AM
09/11/10 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Lar_q
We obviously underestimated the impact this would have for certain players, so we're working on delivering you hotfix as fast as we can (this week still) which allows you to tweak the settings of the game to your liking. We'll do this by exposing configuration files which allow you to modify certain aspects of the engine such as for instance the lock, but also other things which could be helpful with people who are playing it on very low system specs.

At the same time we're working on a more durable solution which would become part of a patch that doesn't require you to modify a configuration file. That will take some more work however.


Good stuff, I think a lot of people will be happy to just be able to unlock the FPS and not being "forced" to run it at 30fps, even if 30fps is more stable.

Thx for the update!


Lacho Calad! Drego Morn!
Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: koji] #424650
09/11/10 10:41 AM
09/11/10 10:41 AM
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is the patch that revamps the engine etc.. also gonna be available for the people who only have the original version of the game (no expansion)??


Viper
Re: Frame Rate capped to 30 ? [Re: Viper] #424740
09/11/10 04:16 PM
09/11/10 04:16 PM
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Lar_q Offline

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The hotfix which allows you to play around with the cap and other settings is now online:

http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=424718#Post424718

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