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#429250 27/11/10 10:25 AM
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Marlow Offline OP
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Hey

None knows what a RPG is??
Before i give a one star review at Amazon.de, i want hear some opinions,
because it can be that i have something not understood.
The first Divinity i gave 5 Stars (the maximum), but i`m now no more sure,
if that whats right or not.

Okay, what is the greatest Problem of Divinity 2:
Most of the attributes have NO effect!!!
Please not tell me, that this is wrong, because an effect which is VERY VERY small, is NOT an effect!
At all RPGs i ever play a mage, but in Divinity 2 it gives no Magic system! In Divinity 2 os it really a joke to play a mage.
Example: Normal all my Spells will make more damage when i increased the intelligence.
In this game i only "buy" my spells and there updates.

All creatures have no value (only a simple health bar)!!
I run through the game without any great problems, because the creatures are much to soft.
Yes, i miss resistances like against water, fire, earth and so. Also a much better resistance against magic.

I think at first it is enough.
No, one GREAT BAD thing i will not forget to say, you can not make mods for this game!!!!
When someone has problem to understand how must look a RPG, then play Baldurs Gate 2


Regards, Marlow

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Attributes do matter, but not with spell damage, rather with your magic resistance, and your mana points (for a mage-type character), and your health. This system works without the usual classes (warrior, mage, rogue...), so the system is a bit different. You have unlimited access to all skills, as there is no class.

After all, why should Intelligence add damage to your spells ? Fire doesn't get hotter because you are more intelligent (for a fireball spell). Here you specialize in some spells instead, the "updates" are simply a better version of a spell, the equivalent of maxing intelligence (different system again).

You put many points in one spell, which is equivalent to "I concentrate on that spell to maximise it's effect, let's forget the other spells, I'll learn them later".

Creatures have values, you just don't have access to them (outside of level).
I aggree with the too-easy part, they just added a new difficulty to FoV and DKS.

Try the Gothic series or Risen, you even have less information than in Divinity on items and stats or opponents, but it's still a RPG.

And again, Baldur's Gate games are great RPGs, but use a complete different system than Divinity, it's like comparing Quake and Rainbow6 (I really do love that example).

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Sorry to spill the beans, but Divinity II is indeed an RPG. kiss


My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.
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Hey

Originally Posted by melianos
Attributes do matter, but not with spell damage.
After all, why should Intelligence add damage to your spells ? Fire doesn't get hotter because you are more intelligent (for a fireball spell).

Yes, so this way the game goes has nothing to do with an RPG.
You need a higher Intelligence for powerful Spells and the Intelligence is s special attribute for magician. I will not understand that a warrior can use Spells so good as a mage!
Originally Posted by melianos
Attributes do matter, rather with your magic resistance, and your mana points (for a mage-type character), and your health.

Correct, but Intelligence and Strengh have nothing to do with resistance. Resistance is a separate attribute, which will be splitted in some categories.
Originally Posted by melianos
This system works without the usual classes (warrior, mage, rogue...), so the system is a bit different.

Right, but this "system" is not only a bit different, it is much different and has no more to do with rollplaying, because if you play a warrior or a mage makes no difference.
Originally Posted by melianos
You have unlimited access to all skills, as there is no class.

All can "buy" the shills. None need a typical attribute!!
The same i has also done for an other game, so i understand the problem. When i give a damage bonus in the skill-tree, so a hero makes with high Intelligence TO MUCH damage. I found no way to use twice and so i stop the damage from the Skill-Tree, because i want not go away from the rollplaying system. Strengh make weapons more powerful, Intelligence make spells more powerful. It gives enough options in the Tree and it must be not so great as now in Divintiy 2
Originally Posted by melianos
Here you specialize in some spells instead, the "updates" are simply a better version of a spell, the equivalent of maxing intelligence (different system again).

To buy your knowledge without knowledge is NOT an equivalent of maxing intelligence!!
And again, it is NOT a different system, it is no system wink
Originally Posted by melianos
You put many points in one spell, which is equivalent to "I concentrate on that spell to maximise it's effect, let's forget the other spells, I'll learn them later".

I'll learn them later?? WHAT has this to do with learn?!
Originally Posted by melianos
Creatures have values, you just don't have access to them (outside of level).
I have two hearts, you must trust me, because you cant see if is true or not wink
I want see the values of creatures that i can use a special tactic against each creatures. So when i know which resistance a creature has, i can use a better weapon or spell. Also it would be nice to know which spells a caster has.
Originally Posted by melianos
I aggree with the too-easy part, they just added a new difficulty to FoV and DKS.
PLEASE be honest, you really think a stronger difficulty solve that?! I not need more creatures or creatures with more HPs (okay, much stronger boss creatures)!! I want use different tactics against the creatures and how can that be made i wrote above
And about FoV it will be better when i say nothing about that "game"!
Originally Posted by melianos
Try the Gothic series or Risen, you even have less information than in Divinity on items and stats or opponents, but it's still a RPG.

What other games not have, need Divinity also not?!
Originally Posted by melianos
Baldur's Gate games are great RPGs, but use a complete different system than Divinity
They NOT use an different system, they use the original rollplaying sytem!!!

Originally Posted by Libertarian
Sorry to spill the beans, but Divinity II is indeed an RPG.

Nice joke biggrin


Regards, Marlow

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Originally Posted by Marlow
Yes, so this way the game goes has nothing to do with an RPG.
You need a higher Intelligence for powerful Spells and the Intelligence is s special attribute for magician. I will not understand that a warrior can use Spells so good as a mage!


Your approach on what defines a role-playing game seems quite limited. In a purist's point of view, no computer role-playing game ever published might truly be a role-playing game. You apparently accept that computer games can be role-playing games, but only if they follow the D&D set of rules, more or less. Sorry, but that's pretty narrow-minded.

The classless skill system used in Larian's games grants the player more freedom to define the character's role. Nobody forces you to learn spells if you want to play a warrior. But if you have a character in mind who can both use weapons and cast spells, that's easily possible. It's comparable to multi-classed or dual-classed characters in the D&D system, but simpler and much more adaptable to what the player has in mind.

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Originally Posted by Lurker
Your approach on what defines a role-playing game seems quite limited.
You apparently accept that computer games can be role-playing games, but only if they follow the D&D set of rules, more or less.
Yes, so is it.
Originally Posted by Lurker
no computer role-playing game ever published might truly be a role-playing game
Wrong, look at this games: The Might and Magic Serie, Baldurs Gate and so on
Originally Posted by Lurker
Sorry, but that's pretty narrow-minded.

Matter of opinion wink
Originally Posted by Lurker
It's comparable to multi-classed or dual-classed characters in the D&D system, but simpler and much more adaptable to what the player has in mind.

Multi-classed chars i can play in Divinity 2, but I am sure, all players will ONLY play that.
Also, it is much to simple and it´s not really a system. Right, it gives more Opportunities now, but all make not much sense!

When there was a chance for modding the game, i´m sure, this game will be really great. But this Larian Studios not like!!


Regards, Marlow

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Originally Posted by Marlow

Originally Posted by Lurker
no computer role-playing game ever published might truly be a role-playing game
Wrong, look at this games: The Might and Magic Serie, Baldurs Gate and so on

They are not rpg. The role you are playing is limited by what the developpers put in the game. In a real RPG, I can choose to say anything to a NPC, or do anything to him.
In Baldur's Gate 1 I never got the option of proposing to Imoen, while playing a female dwarf. A true complete rpg would have allowed that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_game
There, that definition is good enough, read ALL of it, and take a long look to pen-and-paper RPG, the first RPGs to be made, the original, basically the only real ones.


Originally Posted by wikipedia

A role-playing game (RPG) is a broad family of games in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[1] Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.

So that's a rpg. Where does Divinity2 not fit in this ?

What YOU define as a rpg is a rpg that uses exclusively D&D ruleset. And as much as that ruleset is nice (for monster bashing), it falls really short on many other points.

Last edited by melianos; 28/11/10 08:18 PM.
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Originally Posted by Lurker
Your approach on what defines a role-playing game seems quite limited.
You apparently accept that computer games can be role-playing games, but only if they follow the D&D set of rules, more or less.

Originally Posted by melianos
What YOU define as a rpg is a rpg that uses exclusively D&D ruleset

The last Post from "melianos" open me the eyes!

YES, Divinity 2 is a Rollplaying Game!!

But it is not an original RPG, because of missing the D&D Rules, which makes me really sad,
but it was not a reason to be so strong, so i change my opinion (general)

At time i feel not good (to many hours i play that game), so i answer only short.


Also i am ready to play with Divinity 2 and i will give them at Amazon 2 from 5 Stars and 3 Stars at the fun factor.
Why no more? I think, Divinity 1 (greater dungeons and other more) was much better (but i must test it again)
Divinity 2 has some very good news, but make not much of them.
When you get the dragon tower, game lost all the fun, because much money, no good new items, opponent is no longer a challenge, map to small and so on. Most important of all, you can NOT modding the game.


Thanks to Lurker and melianos!!
Regards, Marlow



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One thing I (on this moment) don't understand is:
You give Divine Divinity 5 stars (Yes, great, it is really a great RPG !!), but Divnity II only 2 or 3?
In my opinion both are great and I give both 5 stars !

For example: if you increase your Intelligence in DD, your magic spells are NOT stronger! Your Mana pool become bigger. So just the same kind of system as in DII and you give DD 5 stars!

You're a great reviewer mad ... so I never read your reviews !


On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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Hey Joram

You not saw this line: Why no more? I think, Divinity 1 (greater dungeons and other more) was much better (but i must test it again) wink wink

Long time ago i test Divinity and it was really great, because mostly of the big dungeons what the game have. At all first games of a developer i do not reduce the stars of a missing editor or modding chance, only at the following games. I think that is fair!!
Ever i am sad when a RPG not use the D&D Rules, nut before i reduce a star therefore, i look how can i play as mage!!

Grafic is the last thing what interess me, only the gameplay!!!
So it is very important for me, how often i can olay a game without losing fun!

Divinity 2 has much good new things, but all not complete!
It is no significant the the dungeons are much smaller, that i can steel without problems and so on.
Problem is, that i lose fast the interess to play the game.
1) Nice idea with the dragon tower, but i think i get them to late in the game, because not long and i no more need him. Also i miss my own trader and some others.
2) After half playtime i have money and do not know what i make with them.
3) Only the start town is okay, but later it gives "no" other true towns
4) All traders in the game are VERY bad, because all things what they sell are to MUCH expensive for that little values they have.
5) Map of Orobas-Fjorde very small
6) Opponents are to weak!
7) Much Quest (i like that), but same as in Divinity, you lose fast the overview!!
8) No good Items later (or only for end of game)
9) No much Items with more as one or two slots. Also much too few improvement stones

The best on Divinity 2 are the puzzle (sorry, find no better word. Example: Where you must jump from one platform to an other)

Wisdom effects the mana, not the Intelligence wink

Before i wrote a review, i test/play a game very long!!


Regards, Marlow

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Which version do you test? Ego Dragonis or the Dragon Knight Saga (remastered version also for Ego Draconis!)? wink

In some ways I can understand your frustratings about DII like with the Battle Tower comes a little bit "late" ...
But in comparison with DD:
to be honest, DD I find still better then DII smile !
Especially the first big dungeon is very great, but also the sewers of Verdistis and Rivertown market and all other area's are big and fun! ...
The fact that my hero have a reputation ... stealing is also a risk ...
And if players have trouble with finding back the way to solve Quests in DD you can make "flags" and write down your personal note on the Flag!

In D II it is very good to (re)read frequently your questlog to see if soem questlogs are "updated" wink That can help a lot so I haven't had troubles with the quests in D II.

In Divine Divinity Intelligence affects the mana pool. I think you're mistaken with Divnity II? But in D II Spirit affects the mama pool. Wisdom is a Skill in DII (And DD too), not the name of a stat.



On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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Hey Joram!

Originally Posted by Joram
Which version do you test? Ego Dragonis or the Dragon Knight Saga (remastered version also for Ego Draconis!)? wink

Ego Dragonis
Originally Posted by Joram
But in comparison with DD:
to be honest, DD I find still better then DII smile !
Especially the first big dungeon is very great, but also the sewers of Verdistis and Rivertown market and all other area's are big and fun! ...
The fact that my hero have a reputation ... stealing is also a risk ...

Really true words!! Yes, the first dungeon was wonderful!
Originally Posted by Joram
In D II it is very good to (re)read frequently your questlog to see if soem questlogs are "updated" wink That can help a lot so I haven't had troubles with the quests in D II.

Sorry, i see that not so. 1) All Quest you get are standing in the Log not so, how you get them, so i ever must search in the Log! 2) Log-Update often help nothimg, example: Quest where you must find the 9 thing for Zeppelin, it let me not know how many i need more, or how many i have found!

I no more know what effects in DD, because it was to long time ago
I have the german version and there i have willpower (not wisdom, my mistake) to increase Mana

Have you the game "Kings Bounty"?


Regards, Marlow

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Originally Posted by Marlow
YES, Divinity 2 is a Rollplaying Game!![/b]
But it is not an original RPG, because of missing the D&D Rules, which makes me really sad,
but it was not a reason to be so strong, so i change my opinion (general)

At time i feel not good (to many hours i play that game), so i answer only short.

Also i am ready to play with Divinity 2 and i will give them at Amazon 2 from 5 Stars and 3 Stars at the fun factor.
Why no more? I think, Divinity 1 (greater dungeons and other more) was much better (but i must test it again)
Divinity 2 has some very good news, but make not much of them.
When you get the dragon tower, game lost all the fun, because much money, no good new items, opponent is no longer a challenge, map to small and so on. Most important of all, you can NOT modding the game.

Thanks to Lurker and melianos!!
Regards, Marlow

You shouldn't really use the D&D Rules to try and define what is or is not an RPG. The D&D Rules are for one type of RPG, not for every RPG. There are plenty of very good RPG's available that do not use the D&D Rules, in fact, if every RPG used the D&D rules then RPG's would become rather boring because they'd all be too similar with very little variation!

As for not being able to mod the game, why is that a bad thing? Personally I like to play some games that aren't moddable because it means I can spend more time actually playing the game, as opposed to spending more time finding mods, installing mods, testing mods, un-installing mods I don't like or that don't work before I can finally start playing the game!

At the end of the day, it's all down to personal choice, but try to keep an open mind when you play a new game and enjoy the game for it is, entertainment! wink

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Originally Posted by Grizzly UK
As for not being able to mod the game, why is that a bad thing? Personally I like to play some games that aren't moddable because it means I can spend more time actually playing the game, as opposed to spending more time finding mods, installing mods, testing mods, un-installing mods I don't like or that don't work before I can finally start playing the game!

You must be very young, i think, because you nothing understand!!
Sorry, but it is my first and last answer at you.


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Originally Posted by Marlow


YES, Divinity 2 is a Rollplaying Game!!

But it is not an original RPG, because of missing the D&D Rules, which makes me really sad,
but it was not a reason to be so strong, so i change my opinion (general)

Role, not Roll.
Originaly (so before D&D), RPG had a Game Master, which oversaw the game. In D&D, they call him the Dungeon Master. Why ?
Because D&D ruleset is oriented towards door-monster-treasure, which in video games is basically a hack'n slash.


You can't call D&D system the "original" rules, it's just the easyest rules for a Dungeon Master (just put some rooms and monsters, and some backstory). It's not even the first one to be created. It's like calling MacDonald the best restaurant, because lots of people go there, and the food is easy to make.

For RPG, there are many much better system for Role Playing (and again, not Roll Playing).

So again, D&D doesn't make original rpg, it's just the most popular (not even RPG for noobs, there are easyer and most complete systems), which system is only oriented towards combat.

For example, in magic using there is no difference between intelligence and knowledge (both should be different stats).

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Originally Posted by Marlow
Originally Posted by Grizzly UK
As for not being able to mod the game, why is that a bad thing? Personally I like to play some games that aren't moddable because it means I can spend more time actually playing the game, as opposed to spending more time finding mods, installing mods, testing mods, un-installing mods I don't like or that don't work before I can finally start playing the game!

You must be very young, i think, because you nothing understand!!
Sorry, but it is my first and last answer at you.


Marlow
So because someone disagrees with you, you just make a lame attempt at insulting them? Are you not able to actually enter into a debate whereby you try to explain your view point and why you make such bold statements? If not then you really shouldn't be starting such topics as all you're going to accomplish is to make yourself look foolish and immature!

BTW, I'm quite aways past being young and I've played a LOT of RPG's over the years! Not every game has to be moddable, although for those games that are it can help to extend the replayability factor and generally keeps the game "popular" far beyond the standard time frame.

If you only want to play RPG's based on the D&D ruleset that you can mod, that's your choice, you'll miss out on some great RPG's, although I strongly suspect that you'll struggle to find many RPG's that fit your limited requirements!

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Originally Posted by Marlow
Have you the game "Kings Bounty"?

Regards, Marlow


No,I've not Kings Bounty wink

Beside, many "rpg's" HAVE quest-markers to find easier you way to the questgiver and the quest itself to do ...
Divinity II simply don't have this feature (except for the Main Quest!) and I love that because, and now I use the words of some reviewer of the DKS explains it very good :
"Great (and funny) writing, well designed quests, respect for the player's intelligence and an open approach to character creation make The Dragon Knight Saga an outstanding RPG." - Inc.Gamers

Divnity II don't hold you hand and I love that ! I love it to explore and find for myself the quest-items and NPC's to talk with for a quest to solve a quest !! The possibility to find it on your own give much more self-confidence (my opinion!)

It's like a child (if I game I'm some sort of a (little) child biggrin )that wish to learn something and don't wish his parents help him because he/she wish to TRY it on his/her own way !! Very important for a child and for his/her self-confidence !


On 7th of february 2015 : I start a new adventure in the Divinity world of Original Sin,
it's a Fantastic Freaking Fabulous Funny ... it's my All Time Favorite One !
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I completely agree with you man
its not RPG
its action RPG :P


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Hey

I think the same about Quest-Markers. BUT when there none Quest-Markers, i need others hints, like NPCs which help to find when i speak with them, or a good Log-book or others.
In Divinity 2 you get really many Quests (i like it) and that is a problem. I need not a quest-marker to find the target, but a better help to find the quest giver, where i get my reward.

When i get Quests in towns i have no problem, because there i have enough indications to find a person. But Divinity 2 has only one town (another thing what i not like), all other are free land and that make it hard to find a person, because the log says not enough.

Game magazine i don´t like!!! All give to much good notes for all games.

All not help, i miss in Divinty 2 to much, mostly after the half game!!
WHY i get no reward after kill that white rabbit??! I not like jokes which make my life (in a game) unnecessary hard.


@Raven.rpg
You´re not the Raven from Oblivion?
No, i will not say that Divinity 2 is a ARPG, but is matter of opinion wink


Regards, Marlow

Last edited by Marlow; 30/11/10 02:31 PM.
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Huh
what are you talking about
"I am not from oblivion"
i dont get it


ENGLISH GRAMMAR IS MY WEAK SIDE
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