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Astara Offline OP
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Multiple ways the final scene is really bad -- not to mention on easiest setting either I or the zepp (usually the zepp) dies.

1) Big error in game design. No way, anyone in their right mind would an escorted load get AHEAD of it's main protection. Would never happen in a million years. They'd hang way behind, and let their mobile forces(or force in this case) take out the front lines BEFORE advancing. They don't even slow down when experiencing damage. They just keep plodding merrily forward even if they are ahead of me --- like the designers gave them a 50 IQ. What's up with that. Certainly the designers could do alot better. I can't say enough about how bad this decisionis: completely unrealistic -- but, it should never have gotten even this far, due to an earlier, non-realistic decision:


2) Zandalor's been out of it, at the least, he's in no position to command or plan anything without my input -- especially if I'm his only forward force. He should have let me give the say so when the ship should launch -- because in any real world scenario -- again, you would have your forward forced clear the path before the vital cargo even launches. This was a huge tactical mistake that would never have been made by even the stupidest of commanders -- but the designers built it in, like it's the best they could come up with. These are, completely, non-thought, out tactics -- sorta like there ARE no tactics -- but it's a 'last gasp' suicide mission! But...then why are we sending a zeppelin anyway???...

3) I carried the weapon of mass destruction (Wrth'o'Patrch )back up from the deepest dungeons in my backpack along with probably 70 other items. It doesn't need a zeppelin -- a much smarter plan would be to have the dragon carry the bomb and drop it and forgo the need for a fragile zeppelin to carry the only hope for the whole war. Send the zepp as backup, but again, they need to stay back and out of the main range of any firepower -- they could support, but their loss would not be critical to the war effort -- the dragon is much better equipped and could easily carry 1 item. So again -- poor tactics.

4) Then there's the structure of the whole 2nd part of the game. VERY poor design decision -- you spend the entire game building up your character to the finest most polished piece you believe you can do -- all skills, and stats honed to perfection, and then, for the final mission, you force the player to throw away ALL their work -- NOTHING carries over except healing/mana potions -- I DID try an increase-all armor by 17 points -- did nothing for my defense. I also had +26 STRngth, DEX and INTlgnc potions that *should* have been able to be applicable to the dragon form -- but were also forfeit. In this game it would have been better to be a dragon RIDER than turned into a dragon -- since my character could deal out more damage/round than the dragon, and take alot more damage. There's also no reason why my dragon couldn't, *AT LEAST* strap a belt or necklace around a paw or neck. 4(b) The 2nd-part of this complete play dichotomy -- you force players into an unfamiliar interface that's been unused for, AT least, the entire game, (minimally a few days for the fastest players, but more likely numbered in weeks to possibly months since they played the last game).

5) There are a bunch of salt-in-the-wound items, (a) like ignoring skill bonuses of any of the armor items. I should have had +1 in multiple skill areas, but was limited to the hit-point-bonus and the choice of +40 damage OR +40 defense (what's with that?! what happened to *balance +20/+20?!) worse, I become a dragon, and unlike in the former game, (b) I can't go back to my dragon castle -- that's bad, since half my dragon armor set is in my chest (except for the items I actually was wearing on my dragon when I left the last game -- which, magically, are all unequipped and replaced with the stock-defaults -- so no way to actually all my armor other than to restore from an earlier save -- AT least, I could hit ESC in the long movie cutscene (YEAY! -- please add that for all timed pauses (in dialogues, and the ultra-lame intro for Larian and and players -- I don't need to be forced to watch & wait for it every time the game crashes. (c) Besides the previously mentioned poor controls for flying -- flying isn't walking, (d) A DRAGON is a living object -- it's not an undead creature. There is NO reason why a dragon should lose all ability to heal unless you have a skill for it. The idea that a dragon is unable regenerate EVEN as WELL as a level 1 PLAYER, is absurd! (e) Some or all 'passive' skills should carry over. Especially 'regen' ability, 'reflect'...etc. Some may not make sense, but many would -- mana efficiency, magic damage bonus(destruction), but mostly thinking about regen -- since that's so starkly awful.

---

It really is more like the designers tried to make the final battle be one where the player was thrown into an unfamiliar situation with no experience other than from the previous game -- which would be some time back -- and NO benefits from the entire game that they had built up. There was not 1 dragon skill book in this entire game.

Seemed like the end must have been added with very little thought -- like they ran out of budget and needed to finish it and get it out the door. Your play testers are obviously a very non-representative bunch -- they get to play alot, and probably had alot of practice flying as a dragon in testing -- but not so with real life players. That's often a problem in game testing -- such testing is usually limited to people who are veteran gamers. Of course they will tend to find everything easier. That can't possibly be a representative sample.

I sorry I'm being harsh but I am trying to offer constructive criticism in many areas that would be low-cost changes. I do want to be clear that there are many good things about the game that no other game has offered -- the graphics are up in the best of the best. Period. Those alone make the game worth buying, BUT it's hell to play, and not that fun -- for me it has little to no replay value -- some -- as others have covered -- due to the immaturity of the development unit in not having a well developed (fully fleshed out) game engine and world system. My expectations were set for another Oblivion -- (mostly due to the DnD setting), when if they were set for Mass Effect(+II), I would have been less disappointed, though the gameplay was much too hard on 'casual' for a casual gamer. That said -- I played through on 'normal' for much of the final half of the game (exception of the final mission which is unfinished on 'casual').

If the final mission had any 'tactical' decisions available (fixing the above numbered items, for example), that might have solved difficulty problems without introducing further scalability options, but about those....



On scalability:
I keep hearing some people here talk about how hard it is to 'scale' difficult. Bovine excrement! Scale regen(hits & mana) from 10x - .1x (slider adjustable, not 4 stops). Scale monster damage from .01x to 100x. Scale player damage amounts (mag/rang/mel), 10x -> .1x. 1 slider could control all three. As for puzzles -- those require more work, but at the very least, you could have a press 'h' for hint - press again, more hint, press again, more, press again give explicit answer -- and/or add a quest compass that points the direction to your next quest goal (have 2 pointers, 1 for main quest, and add a 'selectable' side quest that would get 'primary' status, just for compass purposes (and maybe hint purposes -- and select main quest as primary for hints on it).

These are all low cost scalability additions. I may be misremembering, but I seem to remember another DnD game, Oblivion, might have had a .001 -> 1000x on it's difficulty scale. That really can accommodate a large range of players (of course they also had the in-game console you could access to set stats to your likely, including gold, game position, equipment, etc...ultra, ULTRA sweet -- that and the extensibility! Some of the extensions were awesome. The companions in Divinity-II generally fought better (at least if they had magic as well and were sufficient level) than ones in Obliv -- they were generally too 'stupid'. I do think you toned down the companion damage a bit too much -- TWO level 40 demon types should be able to kill non-boss opponents monsters in no more than about 120-160% of what it would take a human player of same level, but my 2 demons were often wailing against 1 monster for many rounds w/o killing it before I'd step in and finish them in 1 swing (they did knock them down). But scaling companion monster's damage could be another area for scaling -- again, maybe 5-10x current, to .1x current.


In any event, I don't think there's any excuse for lack of scalability when some of the options, like multipliers, should be trivial to implement. However, the best options would require addressing some of the more serious gameplay/strategic flaws. I don't know how easy any of them would be to do in a patch -- depends on the flexibility of the game scripting engine, I suppose.

Options allowing the player to go ahead of the dirigible, or give the player control of when the dirigible progresses forward, could be done with no additional voicing.

Would it be too much to hope for anything along those lines to be fixed, or would that be something for another game?

If you are interested, I might be interested in giving feedback on some future games as well as patches/changes to this one depending on what you want and/or are offering... hehe

Astara


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If you're talking about escort "VIP" missions, its a mixed bag. There have been complaints up and down since Counter-strike game mod was launched 11 years ago. Some people don't mind VIP mission, while others are adamantly opposed to them. Personally, I agree with you, I hate them.

You suggest being able to order the Zeppelin around... however, that's nearly as out of place as the mission you're complaining about. There is no command system and as a solo player without a party it is unnecessary and would ultimately be confusing if it was implemented only for this mission.

I think the biggest issue is the fact you receive no practice with your dragon skills prior to the final mission. The issue is compounded by the ability to start in FoV without even playing through ED. You are simply given all the skills, including the new and seemly unexplained nuke ability and expected to perform. What I think is frustrating for players playing on a lower difficulty setting is the reason why players play on casual... they don't want to repeat a sequence over and over again. They want the fluidity that comes from playing through it once and never failing a single sequence. It is indeed out of place for a mission to be so challenging on what was previously a casual game.

I think the fix can be accomplished in a less obtuse manner... Make the zeppelin nearly invulnerable with better offensive damage. On lower difficultly the zeppelin should be doing most of the work for you; it should be almost like an interactive cutscene. To improve gaming experience, the cooldown on "Eye of Patriarch" should be reduced to 1/2 or 1/3 so casual players can enjoy the thrill of taking out defenses in one swoop. Cooldown and zeppelin (health and damage contributions) may scale with difficulty to provide additional challenge.

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Originally Posted by candlebbq
I think the fix can be accomplished in a less obtuse manner... Make the zeppelin nearly invulnerable with better offensive damage. On lower difficultly the zeppelin should be doing most of the work for you; it should be almost like an interactive cutscene. To improve gaming experience, the cooldown on "Eye of Patriarch" should be reduced to 1/2 or 1/3 so casual players can enjoy the thrill of taking out defenses in one swoop. Cooldown and zeppelin (health and damage contributions) may scale with difficulty to provide additional challenge.

I rather like that idea: sounds very cinematic and all you have to do is not get yourself killed. I'd have probably enjoyed that last stage if I hadn't spent it all worrying about the Zeppelin's imminent demise...


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Astara Offline OP
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Quote
You suggest being able to order the Zeppelin around...

No, I suggested being able to give the say-so on when it was 'safe' that the Zepp should advance. Not ordering it all around. It's a very simple safety system, that any escorted vessel would be insane not to listen to -- from their only escort, regardless of command systems.

Quote
There is no command system
Yes, there is. It's given in the 2nd half of the escort mission when you are able to tell the escort mission when to fire it's offensive weapon Zeppelin Barrage. As a laziest/simplest implementation, "Zepplin Halt/Advance" could be a defensive 'Skill' that has zero mana and recharge cost could be an ability given from the start. But it would be better just to replace an unused binding (or give player option of where to bind it), since unused bindings could be mind usable in final mission.

Sidenote: During final mission, some final keys that should (or could) be made useful, in relative order of importance (& ease of implementation): 1) (possible small addl. implementation difficult, BUT very useful ability to add to Dragon Flying form for ALL dragon fly missions: - enable 'jump' to have the dragon 'give a powerful burst to wings that pushes it vertically by ~ 3-5 meters (not up and down, but just a push up). 2) enable dragon stone to allow return to castle as is available everywhere else. It makes no sense to disable this. In part-II return to the castle has been restricted/limited to an extended pause & options ability, since when you are done you have to return to where you left off and you can't recharge or regenerate out of battle. In a 'normal' play mode I can understand why this was done, but you might consider re-enabling hit & mana regen in a 'easy' mode and re-allowing (especially in 'casual' mode), ability to use the castle transporter: after return you'd be told it'd been damaged & repaired, with original destinations lost, but could be 'restored' by finding destinations again. In normal mode, it could stay broken (switch difficulties mid-game would simply miss getting the initial 'fixed' dialogue').
3) Enable taking human form (harder impl difficult; least important) -- could place you on the Zeppelin -- where you'd be limited to a small part of deck where you could see incoming shots -- but allow human-level regen and heal abilities & then switch back to dragon form to continue fight.



Forestalling the Zepp's start is perhaps one of the simplest options by allowing immediate launch in dragon form to 'clear the way', and make contacting Augustus to tell him when to 'lauch' the final attack the way to start the Zepp-launch cut-scene. That can give anyone the option of making for an escort mission, if they *like* such things, by launching immediately, or can lessen the pressure of escorting by progressively later Zeppelin launch times. Such an option would be both simple to implement and would make tactical & strategic sense.

I disagree with making the Zeppelin too much stronger in offensive power (the player gets a game to *play*, not to be told a story -- they get a movie for passive watching). But it would make sense to increase the defensive power. Surely if a mage could keep out missiles from the city for days or weeks on end, either Zandalor or Deodotus(?) (a secondary mage suggested to possibly relieve Zandalor for a bit, but dismissed as being too weak) would still be able to shield a single ship for the final mission (or most of it, giving it some, significantly, larger amount of hit points).

Honestly, I don't think anyone buys one of these games and wants "*no* repeats". It's 'excessive' repeats and a feeling of not being able to make progress for hours that is frustrating. This isn't aimed at children (it does have a 'M' rating in the US).

For what it's worth, I *did* finish the final mission after several more repeats, selective named saves, restoring to an earlier save (before the mission and loading up on healing and restoration potions that I put on hot keys next to my 'dragonspirit(heal)'.


Some other minor notes... about the final scene:

A) When I got the new skill of 'bomb' from the ship, mid mission, I didn't need it to replace 2 of my hot-keys. I left a blank-spot for hit, but it also overwrote the original EoP. Even with the bomb ability, I found the EoP more useful due to its area effect and its quicker arrival time. When I'd gotten a bit a head, the time it took for a bomb from the ship to arrive would be significant (I'd could fly almost half the way back to the ship and escort the missile!) -- but if I was clearing an area, the EoP would take out all the platforms around it, while the bomb would only take out the primary.

B) The player should be equipped with either their armor from their previous dragon save if they've played from the prior game (mine was unequipped for the bad armor), OR should be auto-equipped some best optimal set of armor. I presume that the 2 (3) key items of the Cuirass (giving +40% Hit Points) and the Dragon leggings (2 types, but only 1 choice: +40% to defense or offense). To be consistent -- though not-intuitive to a 'safe player', perhaps, the +40% to offense is the better choice, since it's more consistent with the Zeppelin that has an effective -80% (or worse) defense, compared to the player, due to having zero maneuverability in ranged attacks (i.e. it's like having -5 Dex to ranged attacks that are coming in slowly -- not only can't it dodge, but it can't even 'stop' momentarily, to dodge an incoming missile that was launched slightly ahead of the ship to hit where it will be when the missile actually reaches its target).


(B cont.) The Cuirass should have been equipped as well as, at least the +40 Defense. Note: I found that the part of the final solution was to use the +40 +40 Offense Leggings. I don't know about the 'default' dragon given to those who didn't play through the game from the prior, but I had focused on "Dragon-Fire Sphere" (DFS), a 1.5second-recharge, single-missile equiv to Magic-Missile (that *seeks* & finds the enemy, so it doesn't miss) [i]. With the "DFS" & +40 Offense, it took exactly 2 shots to take out any single Ballista. Once you know that, you launch 2 shots (usually on approach, or if too close, in reverse (but always moving)).

C) I was VERY annoyed with how it ended w/Command Rhode. There should have been a chance for final confrontation or a lead into (my preference) reconciliation.

I made sure to kill Bellegar before he could escape in his final appearance @ the entrance "Antediluvian Vault". I noted that if I killed his minions first, he took the opportunity to disappear, so I focused on taking him out before the minions were done. (Magic missiles did him damage -- since they would seek him when shot @ minions). So given that he was *dead* (annoying as Willy, that he appeared twice later!), or perhaps in any case, after obtaining the final-artifact, I could be placed in the entry cave to meet with Rhode, who'd just been freed from her stony prison just as I'd been freed from my crystal one. (Various factors/reasons could be evaluated: Bellegar killed (spell breaks), or I took his offer & he breaks spell on her as no longer needed/quest done, or I could be offered dialogue choice w/Behrlihn to have him break Bellegar's curse in addition to the Eop, OR even if Bellegar lived and I didn't take his offer, Bellegar could free her in the hopes she do for him, what he'd been unable to do himself - destroy me). Whatever - she's freed.

Then I'd be able to choose dialogue toward a vengeance fight (for those so inclined, I can easily imagine some would take that route), or, w/me having saved her, appeal to her sense of the greater need to defeat Damion's forces, 'first', as I'd obtained the 'quest item' needed to move against them and we'd both be needed in the final battle.

Additional polish could have allowed a final scene, after the Divine is freed, w/her realizing that it was a dragon who saved the Divine (and maybe really was Damion who had committed the earlier deed), though her dying on the crashed Zeppelin would be another, less fulfilling. A third (more improbable), would be the dragon rescuing her before the ship crashes! hehe Can you tell, I liked Rhode, despite her misunderstanding of me? As someone who studied under her, I was hurt by it, and still wanted to 'win her over' -- maybe acknowledgment of me as her equal.


D) On the final cut-scene, I felt "ripped off". They walked out Zandalor & the Divine (understandable), but I should have been that third person. How difficult would it have been to patch in my character in last garb (minus any face-covering helmet? Instead, back from the dead was Bellegar, who had had actually done strong evil to *hindered* the whole mission. I made certain to have replay the initial scene, after entering the the 'Vault', and to *kill* his sorry ass off. I wanted to see him dead after what he did to Commander Rhode -- I was pissed when I saw that.


It was perplexing to see the "Divine" as such a work looking old man. He wouldn't have aged in that crystal.

So Damian isn't dead. That wasn't such a great ending if this is truly supposed to be an ending.

It would be a shame to start over with another character in a non dragon role -- there's so much I'd like to see fixed for dragon flight.

Any final battle Divinity III planned.

Dragon needs to quest in other lands? Find more items to defeat him? He raises another army of of darkness? The dragon is quested by dragons to restore the order of the dragons and gets the powers of Maxos to make others into dragons at the new dragon school? Dragon army (ok maybe a few companions) get to aid in final battle against Damian. Need me to flesh this out some more? ;-)


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It's a game where you can jump off of incredibly high cliffs and land on your feet just fine.

It's a game where giving a ghost a seemingly ordinary ring restores her to life.

It's a game where the "well" under High Hall is full of molten lava.

The unrealistic nature of the zeppelin assault is hardly the game's biggest crime against common sense.

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You'll have to forgive me if some of this comes out as a misread but after skimming through your rant...

Originally Posted by Astara
Quote
You suggest being able to order the Zeppelin around...

No, I suggested being able to give the say-so on when it was 'safe' that the Zepp should advance. Not ordering it all around. It's a very simple safety system, that any escorted vessel would be [...]
But it would be better just to replace an unused binding (or give player option of where to bind it), since unused bindings could be mind usable in final mission.


Being able to order the Zeppelin to start and stop would require extra keys as you so noted and would be out of left field. Why would there be keys solely devoted to only a single sequence in the game?

Originally Posted by Astara
I disagree with making the Zeppelin too much stronger in offensive power (the player gets a game to *play*, not to be told a story -- they get a movie for passive watching).
[...]
Honestly, I don't think anyone buys one of these games and wants "*no* repeats". It's 'excessive' repeats and a feeling of not being able to make progress for hours that is frustrating


I respect your opinion. However, I did not suggest retooling the Zeppelin for higher difficulties. If you want a greater challenge that's what those settings are there for. You want to play a casual game, as the setting would suggest, my opinion is that you enjoy the gameplay and story telling as opposed to a real challenge. If everyone wanted a challenge and didn't mind loosing, then why do trainers exist? Having a base level difficulty removes the need for cheat tools while preserving gameplay. Obviously the player is punished for catastrophic mistakes and unrealistic actions. However, there's already enough going on to keep causal players entertained... like taking out towers without getting killed.

Originally Posted by Astara
The player should be equipped with either their armor from their previous dragon save if they've played from the prior game (mine was unequipped for the bad armor)


If you had armor, it is placed in your inventory. This is probably a bug and a result of offering standalone gameplay. Its existence in the DLC FoV is understandable, but it and the option to start from FoV, should have been removed from DKS.

As a sidenote now that you bring up the inventory system: why do the three different quick swap slots for weapons not also swap armor? There is no restriction on battle swapping armor, but only by hand. Its odd you can't automated the process. And yes, it is useful since some armor includes bonus to skills that affect different weapon types and magic casting.

Originally Posted by Astara
C) I was VERY annoyed with how it ended w/Command Rhode. There should have been a chance for final confrontation or a lead into (my preference) reconciliation.


We've had multiple discussions on this in previous threads. Unfortunately this keeps coming up. All I have to say is Larian's position is she is not dead, only frozen in stone; I don't have the post off hand but some digging will produce. Maybe she'll make another appearance at a future date.

Originally Posted by Astara
D) On the final cut-scene, I felt "ripped off". They walked out Zandalor & the Divine (understandable), but I should have been that third person.


I'm not sure what cutscene you're referring to. Bellegar never died in my version. In the final scene you can clearly see yourself in dragon form hovering overhead before flying away. What you are suggesting?

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I have to agree with a lot of the criticism directed at the ending of the game. For me there are two things that rankled. First, I had "escort" missions. I just don't like to be responsible for someone else's health and to have this as the penultimate action of the game is like baking a cake and frosting it with [insert disgusting object of your choice]. The other matter has already been mentioned, but I'll add my two cents. After spending an inordinate amount of time creating a character with the best equipment, armor and accoutrements (your spell-checker wants me to reverse the "r" and the "e" - British spelling, perhaps?) I find myself playing as a dragon. I didn't mind playing as a dragon during the game; it was fun as an occasional break from swords and magic. Still, it didn't require nearly the thought and planning that went into creating a character with multiple offensive and defensive metrics. I get rather obsessive with the process and put everything into a spreadsheet. Now while this is admittedly a little extreme, I still think that it was a bad idea not to have some long, final stage on which these skills could be used. In place of, say, the escort mission?

Still, I don't want to give the impression that this "ruined the experience" or anything like that. This is a great game and I look forward to the next in the series. There are so many strong and unique points from this studio. I hope they build on what they've created and give us another game set in this "world" as soon as they can manage it.

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Originally Posted by Astara
Multiple ways the final scene is really bad -- not to mention on easiest setting either I
or the zepp (usually the zepp) dies.

1) Big error in game design. No way, anyone in their right mind would an escorted load get AHEAD
of it's main protection. Would never happen in a million years.


Absolutely correct. If you're not doing your thing well ahead of the zeppelin, you're doing it wrong.

Originally Posted by Astara

They'd hang way behind, and let their mobile forces(or force in this case) take out the front lines
BEFORE advancing. They don't even slow down when experiencing damage. They just keep plodding merrily
forward even if they are ahead of me --- like the designers gave them a 50 IQ. What's up with that.


The designers are assuming you'll figure out that you have to stay ahead. They're also assuming that
you'll eventually notice/discover in the forum a big clue that they leave (the line of arrows marking
the zepp's entire fligh path) I took several retries on Casual to do it the first time. Once I figured
out what I was doing wrong, I was able to complete the escort on Normal with little to no damage
on the zeppelin.


Originally Posted by Astara

2) Zandalor's been out of it, at the least, he's in no position to command or plan anything without my input
-- especially if I'm his only forward force. He should have let me give the say so when the ship should
launch -- because in any real world scenario -- again, you would have your forward forced clear the path
before the vital cargo even launches. This was a huge tactical mistake that would never have been made
by even the stupidest of commanders -- but the designers built it in, like it's the best they could come
up with. These are, completely, non-thought, out tactics -- sorta like there ARE no tactics -- but it's a
'last gasp' suicide mission! But...then why are we sending a zeppelin anyway???...


As Stabbey noted, this is a computer game, not reality. And you *do* have say on when the mission starts...



Originally Posted by Astara

4) Then there's the structure of the whole 2nd part of the game. VERY poor design decision -- you spend the
entire game building up your character to the finest most polished piece you believe you can do -- all skills,
and stats honed to perfection, and then, for the final mission, you force the player to throw away ALL their work


You're saying that all that building was irrelevant in the final boss fight after the escort mission finishes?


Originally Posted by Astara

4(b) The 2nd-part of this complete play dichotomy -- you force players
into an unfamiliar interface that's been unused for, AT least, the entire game, (minimally a few days for the fastest players, but more likely numbered in weeks to possibly months since they played the last game).


This is valid if you never played the ED part of the game. If your first exposure to combat in Dragon form
was the escort mission, it would likely take several attempts to get the hang of things before you could succeed.

Originally Posted by Astara

5) There are a bunch of salt-in-the-wound items, (a) like ignoring skill bonuses of any of the armor items.


True, but since your dragon has far more powerful skills overall, this is at best a nit pick IMHO.


Originally Posted by Astara

There is NO reason why a dragon should lose all ability to heal unless you have a skill for it.
The idea that a dragon is unable regenerate EVEN as WELL as a level 1 PLAYER, is absurd!


Unrealistic, true. But the game designers also give a couple of workarounds for that problem,
if you're willing to figure them out.


Originally Posted by Astara

It really is more like the designers tried to make the final battle be one where the player was thrown into an unfamiliar situation
with no experience other than from the previous game -- which would be some time back --


Did it not occur to you that the game designers might have done that because they wanted the endgame
to have (at least the first time through) a bit more difficulty than the rest of the game? And one
way to do that is put you into a situation where your previous tactics weren't as effective?


Originally Posted by Astara


My expectations were set for another Oblivion --


Er, um, you do know this is not a Bethesda game, right?

Originally Posted by Astara

I keep hearing some people here talk about how hard it is to 'scale' difficult. Bovine excrement!
Scale regen(hits & mana) from 10x - .1x (slider adjustable, not 4 stops).
Scale monster damage from .01x to 100x. Scale player damage amounts (mag/rang/mel), 10x -> .1x.


It does sound simple. Do you write software for a living? I do, and I know from experienc (but
not in gaming) that it's amazing how often it is that things that are simple conceptually can be
nightmares to code.

Originally Posted by Astara

As for puzzles -- those require more work,
but at the very least, you could have a press 'h' for hint - press again, more hint, press again,
more, press again give explicit answer --
and/or add a quest compass that points the direction to your next quest goal
(have 2 pointers, 1 for main quest, and add a 'selectable' side quest that would get 'primary' status,
just for compass purposes (and maybe hint purposes -- and select main quest as primary for hints on it).


Sorry, I have no sympathy for this whatsoever. To me, that's mere whining. One of the things I love
about this game is that you have to figure the puzzles/quests out for yourself without having it spoon fed
to you. If you don't like thinking for yourself, you're playing the wrong game.


Originally Posted by Astara

These are all low cost scalability additions. I may be misremembering, but I seem to remember another DnD
game, Oblivion, might have had a .001 -> 1000x on it's difficulty scale.


Oblivion scaled the monsters according to player level. I looked at that as
a horrible design decision. Bethesda admitted as much by backing off of that concept
in both Fallout 3 and the upcoming Skyrim.


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Oblivion has the most horrible level scaling EVER.

No wonder the very first mods where mods who changed that.
Quote
ow while this is admittedly a little extreme, I still think that it was a bad idea not to have some long, final stage on which these skills could be used. In place of, say, the escort mission?

The academy and Antidiluvian vault weren't enough mindless hack & slash for you? I applaud them not to use the oh-so-boring Flying Fortress principle in FoV... instead giving an actual challenge instead of boring tedium...

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Personally, I found no complaint with the end mission. It was easy. You're suppose to use all the abilities you've been given in this mission. On my second playthrough, the Zeppelin didn't even take any damage because I was way ahead of it, destroying everything in my way. The end boss isn't that hard either. Divinity 2 is an RPG that punishes you if you make a crappy build. Make a good build and the end boss won't be that hard. Divine Divinity was the same, if you had made a poor build, then chances are, you'll find the end boss hard along with enemies in the end area. This is how the Divinity series are, you've got to be strategical when leveling up and apply thought. It's not like Oblivion where RPG elements don't play any role.

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An endless hack-and-slash is just as bad and wasn't what I had in mind. What about something in the nature of some difficult "boss"-level fights, or maybe something that played to the other strengths of the game - the unique and imaginative puzzles or mindreading? There are also a couple of ethical choices in the game that stick with you (or at least they did with me). I'd be interested to see how these designers might work that into an alternative ending. Again, I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade, but I'd hardly cite the Academy as the only alternative to fighting as a dragon and didn't mean to imply as much.

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Escort Mission on Nightmare Skill (with tips)

I liked the escort mission because for the first time, it was using the dragon for a concrete goal instead of just transportation. True, it did introduce some new skills for the first time, but it did give you some time to get used to them.

Anyone who had played some of the previous Flying Fortress levels should know that the key to survival as a dragon is to keep moving, and that the towers are more dangerous than the fliers. You need to use your mobility to your advantage, so staying next to the zeppelin is clearly wrong.

I think that Champion Academy and the dungeon which followed is exactly the kind of "use all your skills to your advantage" stuff people are requesting. It had fighting, clever puzzles, jumping sequences, all the elements which had been in the game before except mind-reading (which was required to complete some other main quest things in the city already).

Doing a series of boss fights would have been repeating the climax of Ego Draconis.

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Originally Posted by Astara
As for puzzles -- those require more work, but at the very least, you could have a press 'h' for hint


Excuse me to be a bit harsh :

This is imho nothing but whining of someone who has never played good adventure games, e.g. by LucasArts.

If you play adventure games, then you'll definitively learn how to solve puzzles - in this respect adventure game players have a clear advantage over "normal" RPG players.

I recommend for example the adventure game called "Keepsake", which has a hint function built in.

The LucasArts adventure games have great quality, no "pixel hunting", and are usually more than logical (compared to recent examples).

You could try for example "Indiana Jones And The Fate Of Atlantis" - a true and great classic of this genre !

What you also could try is playing the RPG called "Drakensang". It is much, much, much more friendly to casual gamers, and have several riddles, too. I'd prefer Drakensdang 2, personally, which is scheduled for a boxed release in the North American territory by ValuSoft (daughter company of THQ) in September, if I remember correctly.

I think you should really try it it - but it puts the ROLE in front of everything, NOT the fighting, looting or whatever !
If you are lokking for a combat-heavy "hack & slay" game, then you'll be disappointed with Drakensang 2 (Drakensang 1 has a bi more of it in it, by the way).


And about Rhoda : I'd liked her to have *lot* of more "screen time" after she had been found ... My ideal is still the bantering between two of the main protagonists of the Shakespearean comedy "Much Ado About Nothing", as i see it on cinema as made/directed by Kenneth Brannagh ...



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quote=Astara]As for puzzles -- those require more work, but at the very least, you could have a press 'h' for hint[/quote]

I missed this. As I explained in my previous post, Divinity 2 isn't exactly a game that holds your hand. I notice you mention Oblivion in your post and appear to like it greatly. You even mention how your expectation for Divinity 2 was that it would be like Oblivion. Well that's where all the problems start then. This game isn't like Oblivion at all. It's not exactly a casual game. You can ruin your character if you don't level him/her properly. Quests don't guide you be the hand (especially in the expansion) and there's no level scaling, so leveling up your character plays a huge role here. Divinity 2 should best be compared to an old-school RPG whereas Oblivion is best compared to an open world sandbox game where RPG elements don't matter (you can literally beat the game without ever having to level up). If you play all the old RPG classics, you'll find that all of them have hard bosses along with quests that don't hold you by the hand and some even have puzzles which provide no hints for you just like Divinity 2.

The escort mission gives you your dragon armor back from Ego Draconis. There was no amulets or belts for use in dragon form there, there's no reason why belts and amulets should be able to be used in Flames of Vengeance while in dragon form. You do have your armor. You have all your dragon abilities and you have two new abilities. You have to be tactical when using them. The Eye of The Patriarch causes massive explosions which should be used on nests which destroys the nest and the surrounding towers. Escort mission is literally very easy if you know how to do it.

Then with the end boss fight, all that you've learn as your human character comes into play again. This isn't Oblivion. It's an RPG, you knew there was going to be a boss fight, so you should have took potions with you if your character had trouble in fights.

I mean compared to NWN or Arx Fatalis, Divinity 2 is quite easy. Hell, even Divine Divinity is harder and features a boss that can kill you with 4 hits. But it's an RPG, the one thing I knew about Divine Divinity was that you can obliterate anything if you so wished. So I got myself 50 strength potions, drunk them for a total of 558 Strength, employed a few self boosting abilities, summoned a few creatures and then went to face the boss. I killed HIM with 5 hits.

Divinity 2? I knocked the end boss over multiple times with my abilities and said boss had no time to attack me because my summoned creatures were up close and personal with it. The fight lasted for a total of 1 minute.

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