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Originally Posted by GabeN

I'm sorry, but you speak pure bullcrap, mate.

Name like this puts off both adults and children alike. If a game is named THIS bad, you won't touch it unless you at least heard a good thing about it.

Divine Divinity, the one with horrible title, HAD blood. After killing enemies, blood splatters appeared in most of the cases.
Sexual content? You could go to Verdistis to the bar, and even do gay sex there. Much more possibilities than in Divinity 2.
Divine One was less forced to be good than The Dragon Knight, you could randomly attack most of citizens (except ones too important for the story), do things bad way too...

Besides, you contradict yourself yet again - now you complain about losing children audience, and before you said about how majority of players are adults.


Im not contradicting, I said it might put some people off, some people wont play video games often, the grab a title or two every 2 or 3 years and try it out.

the post you talk about was about the fact that children are not a large demographic group in divinity sales. while in the last one im just stating how children are easily influenced. how can these two contradict each other ?

and what do you mean by "again" ? when did i contradict myself ? if you mean "that" post, the reason was that i sounded a bit like a douch, so i took back what i said just to prevent being what i hate the most, but in essence i did not lie. i believe i did give you the sources for it.

but enough of that, tell me, would the game be better if it had the same amount of content richness as divine divinity ? i mean with the blood and the sex and the . . . etc . . . ?


Last edited by Mvc9; 07/02/11 01:00 PM.



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Originally Posted by Lar_q
Long story short - contract had Divinity: The Sword of Lies in it. Publisher revised it to Divinity: The Sword of Lies (working title). The day the contract was signed, we were informed the new name was going to be Divine Divinity, courtesy of the CEO who just made tons of cash with Sudden Strike and now figured that any new title needed to have an alliteration in it, or so we were told.

We told them that was a stupid idea. They didn't like us telling them it was a stupid idea and they were also the ones checking our milestones so eventually we had to shut up, especially when inevitably we were late with a particular milestone. End of story, the person who came up with it indeed had poor taste in names and I agree that it probably cost us a lot of sales - most people thought it was a porn game.

I think it's safe to say that publisher wasn't made up of very inspired people. I learnt later that there were only a few people in the company that believed our game had any chance at success, and since they were all experts in their fields (so they told us wink ), I remember I was feeling very nervous at the time. Never got any word of appreciation for the game we made either. Come to think of it, the only ones who ever showed a sign of appreciation for the end result were Focus, the publisher we're working with for DKS now. That's probably to do with our attitude, but that's another story wink


This is why I support you guys and gals. You keep in contact with your community, tell us interesting stories about what goes on inside of the industry, and you just happen to make some damn fine RPG titles! I really like hearing about what goes on between developers and publishers, though, as it's always an interesting read.


My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.
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Originally Posted by GabeN
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now back on the track, i just want the option available. no ? then let me make it ! there are plenty of Divinity 2 Nude mods out there (which by the way I hate nudity or sexual content in any game - thus those mods disgust me) so why there shouldn't be any blood mod ! the game is already defiled ! just give us the tools.


LoL, how I LOVE this kind of reasoning.

"It's fine when there is lot of blood and gibs in our games/movies, but naked breasts? Penis?! NO! What will children think? It's A LOT better for them to look at someone cutting another person in many bloody pieces than to see something they probably have already seen on their body or in some kind of porn. YES WE IS ZMART."
Typical christian/muslim/jewish behaviour, hopefully such kind of reasoning will be extinct by the end of this century, just like these religions.



Who said this person was religious? Violence is different from nudity. It doesn't give lustful thoughts to children. Also, I'm pretty sure Christianity, Islam and Judaism shall continue on forever. Leave your anti religious beliefs of off the game forums please.

Regarding the topic:

I saw headless corpses in Divinity II, I saw burning corpses, I saw body parts ripped up and I saw dragons that when killed - unleashed blood and bones. Having an ability to turn blood on or off doesn't sound too bad.

I remember seeing slight blood falling from the enemy as I attacked them and I wouldn't mind more and I wouldn't mind if it stayed the way it was. Honestly though, in a game that isn't scared to show decapitated bodies, more blood could have been included and it would have actually given you the sense of victory after you performed a rather gory finishing move on an enemy.

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Originally Posted by Mvc9
[quote=GabeN]
Im not contradicting, I said it might put some people off, some people wont play video games often, the grab a title or two every 2 or 3 years and try it out.

the post you talk about was about the fact that children are not a large demographic group in divinity sales. while in the last one im just stating how children are easily influenced. how can these two contradict each other ?

and what do you mean by "again" ? when did i contradict myself ? if you mean "that" post, the reason was that i sounded a bit like a douch, so i took back what i said just to prevent being what i hate the most, but in essence i did not lie. i believe i did give you the sources for it.

but enough of that, tell me, would the game be better if it had the same amount of content richness as divine divinity ? i mean with the blood and the sex and the . . . etc . . . ?



Your'e right, it wasn't a contradiction as much as misunderstanding on my part. My apologies.

Romance/sex part, yes, blood part wouldn't influence much - even bodies dissapear after killing an enemy, so why should blood stay?

Quote

Who said this person was religious? Violence is different from nudity. It doesn't give lustful thoughts to children. Also, I'm pretty sure Christianity, Islam and Judaism shall continue on forever. Leave your anti religious beliefs of off the game forums please.


You know, some kinds of reasonings can give us an insight about who the person is, as some things are done or said by certain kinds of people. If you saw a man dressed in pink wearing a lipstick, wouldn't the first thing you think about him be "he's one of those flamboyant girly gays"? While it may not be true 100% times (who knows, maybe the guy lost a bet, or he just likes dressing like that), usually it is. He didn't disprove my "you're religious!" theory with "no, I'm an atheist" - I was correct, wasn't I?

I can say being 75% sure you're catholic (25% odds for Islam/Jew), who probably haven't read the bible even once - just like my parents did... And because of that you don't really know that your god isn't really a god of mercy, he's cruel and disgusting, far worse even than Hitler, Stalin and all the evil people included - at least nazi leader doesn't want to make anyone suffer forever for petty "crimes" (which aren't really crimes) such as masturbation, homosexualism, bad thoughts, not believing in his petty story with no proof and contradictions on lot of pages, etcetera.

Of course violence is different. Violence is full of bad things, and there's no bad things about sex/porn if you do everything right. If you prefer children to watch a man being torn in half by giantic saw, screaming as his intestines drop on the floor than to let them watch some porn, I say you're a sick person.

Lustful thoughts to children? And who says lustful thoughts are bad? Unless you're a psycho, it won't affect you in bad way - and if you're a psycho, then violent movies would affect you even worse. People get excited, people should... let themselves ease. Why not? It even helps with your health (you lose calories = you won't get fat = you are less prone to the heart diseases and mass of other sicknesses!), and I heard about other health merits of masturbation/sex.

So why exactly lust is bad? No, "god said so" won't work. No, "many peepls are slaves fer porn industry!" won't work, since some people just WANT to be watched and upload their videos for free/petty money, or they are professionals and probably live in villas for their effort... Etcetera

Quote
I saw headless corpses in Divinity II, I saw burning corpses, I saw body parts ripped up and I saw dragons that when killed - unleashed blood and bones. Having an ability to turn blood on or off doesn't sound too bad.

I remember seeing slight blood falling from the enemy as I attacked them and I wouldn't mind more and I wouldn't mind if it stayed the way it was. Honestly though, in a game that isn't scared to show decapitated bodies, more blood could have been included and it would have actually given you the sense of victory after you performed a rather gory finishing move on an enemy.


Agreed, but it would still take budget that was needed much more in other areas.


Last edited by GabeN; 07/02/11 07:54 PM.
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Originally Posted by Mvc9
I dont wanna feel like im playing a 12 year olds game,


Me, I'm of the age of exactly 41 one now,

and I LOVE Drakensang 2 because it has NOT any gore or blood (at least until you zoom in very close) at all !!!

I know I'm at the rong side, but I'm actually very sick of the fact that i have to constantly defend myself because I DO NOT want ANY blood or ore in games - which makes me wonder what kind of people are those who force me to defend my taste ?

Me, I DO like light-hearted, colourful games with - if possible - no violence at all. (I come from the non-action adventure game genre, that's why).

And every time I tell someone on a forum I don't like Dragon Age for its blood and gore, I receive looks (I can feel that over their writing) as if I#m a 10 year old or as if I'm completely insane and should better spend the rest of my days in a rubber cell in some kind of "mental inanity hospital".

The current gaming world has evolved so,
that the darker, the more grim, the more bloody, the more grey, the moe muted colours, the more filled with hopelessness and despair a setting is,
the better.

No-one wants lighthearted fun anymore.

Everything HAS to be bad, bloody, an with the bowels hanging out of a scorched body, if possible. Or with blood fountains coming out of a body that is losing its had (his barbrian MMORPG, I forgot its name ...)

Blood and gore sells. The people want it. They want to be covered with it - I mean their charcters.
Me, I call THIS insanity.


Me, I'm currently playing Drakensang 2 for the third time.
And if this fashion in gaming goes on (it hasn't reached its peak yet), then this will be one of my last RPGs (still have to buy DKS, which I'll do of course during this year).


I quote myself from the official Drakensang forums :


Originally Posted by "Alrik Fassbauer"
I prefer a world like Aventuria - exactly with all of these fairy-tale aspects.

My main argument against setting like what you seem to prefer is this :

I have more than enough darkness and greyness in Reality. Political corruption, exploiting of people, wars here, there, and everywhere ... 9/11, Nazis, Mugabe, Taliban ... All of this is more than enough to consider.
I really don't want to have all of this stuff in a fantasy game I just want to enjoy. To me, this is true escapism. i need it, because I want to recharg my power cells with this kin of etting, be it in novels, video games, pictures etc ... whatever.

From my point of view, I just cannot understand how people really want to transport all of reality's problems into a fantsy world. Isn't Reality enough for them ? Do they have to let everything be stained with the murders of Taliban, the results of Agent Orange, the results of Tchernobyl, the exploitations of Mr. Mugabe, the poison gas assault on Kurdistan, the drug wars of Mexico, the assassination of people in the "Colonia Dignidad" in Chiler, the overwhelming corruption of African clans, the economical monopoly of american mega-compnies, the econimical destruction of European food companies selling heavily subsidised foods into African markts thus destroying the local farmer's income and thu making them slaves to the international market, and the autocracy of Lukaschenko of Belarus ? Why do they want to put all of this stuff into fantasy setting ?

I just can't undrstand it. To me, it is essential for human nature to have a place to regenerate from all of these daily affairs. And that's why I use these clichť-like fantasy settings, "where the world is still okay", so to say. And espcially : Where the drawn lines are clear. No meddling around with greyness like in Real Life.

If I want to see greyness in nature, then I just need to drive on any Autobahn or highway : There's more than enough grey concrete.

But I really prefer colourful flowers from the countrysides.



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Quote


I know I'm at the rong side, but I'm actually very sick of the fact that i have to constantly defend myself because I DO NOT want ANY blood or ore in games - which makes me wonder what kind of people are those who force me to defend my taste ?

Me, I DO like light-hearted, colourful games with - if possible - no violence at all. (I come from the non-action adventure game genre, that's why).

And every time I tell someone on a forum I don't like Dragon Age for its blood and gore, I receive looks (I can feel that over their writing) as if I#m a 10 year old or as if I'm completely insane and should better spend the rest of my days in a rubber cell in some kind of "mental inanity hospital".

The current gaming world has evolved so,
that the darker, the more grim, the more bloody, the more grey, the moe muted colours, the more filled with hopelessness and despair a setting is,
the better.


I completely understand you! I also love lighthearted game from time to time.

There's not many games absolutely without violence... Besides dark world usually allows us to become the good ones, helping others. This also interests people.
Quote

No-one wants lighthearted fun anymore.


Disagreed! Just look at Mario series, Sonic series and much more others.

Do you see any kind of violence in them? Nope. Are they some of the most well known games and best selling games? Of course! Are they loved by both adults and children? Most obviously!

Quote

Everything HAS to be bad, bloody, an with the bowels hanging out of a scorched body, if possible. Or with blood fountains coming out of a body that is losing its had (his barbrian MMORPG, I forgot its name ...)

Blood and gore sells. The people want it. They want to be covered with it - I mean their charcters.
Me, I call THIS insanity.


Completely agreed!

Barbarian MMORPG I think is Conan the Barbarian? Didn't play this one.

I don't need any violence in my games to enjoy them if they're good. I agree with the part about insanity - especially when it's usually done by those same people who shout and cry their outrage when they see a naked nipple, or something that even indicates to sex.


And you certainly do have a point in your quote, but... Sometimes, we just want to vent our spleen, calm down - and some games fit better to this, usually violent ones.

But I agree, gore isn't needed in games as much as it lately is - only best of developers can make a message without heads going down.

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And Larian is one of the best developers.

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I mostly agree with you, Alrik (because I think gore isn't mandatory), but not with the "insanity" of violence-likers [in Fantasy worlds]. I mean, Fantasy isn't just a legacy of fairy tales (I won't even remind you some of them are pretty violent), but it also comes from epic tales (mainly when speaking about RPG). There are emotions some gamers look for that need violence to be fulfill. There is nothing wrong with that, you can call it catharsis or so, but it feels good.

Thought I prefer psychological violence (when watching a horror movie, I enjoy more the tension than the gore itself), I can understand their point of view. They don't want to recreate the violence of the world, but a fictional feeling that wouldn't be as strong without it. It's hard to explain, but it's how I feel it.

... anyway, I think Divinity II don't really need it. Laiken is good enought at it smile



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*naughty boy deletes naughty post*

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I kinda feel like this thread has run its course...

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Originally Posted by born2beagator
I kinda feel like this thread has run its course...

At least I didn't compare him to Hitler. wink

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This is still a friendly video game forum, not a UFC/WWF match/

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I thought Lar_q did a wonderful job diffusing this topic but seriously it needs to be locked. We don't need verbal violence to promote (virtual) physical violence.

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Originally Posted by candlebbq
I thought Lar_q did a wonderful job diffusing this topic but seriously it needs to be locked. We don't need verbal violence to promote (virtual) physical violence.


lol, well put

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Point taken, I was well out of order.

Thanks for the verbal spank.

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If GabeN could now also state he was out of order with his religion-statement, we'll all be happy again. I mean, that was so typically atheist of him biggrin


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Originally Posted by ForkTong
If GabeN could now also state he was out of order with his religion-statement, we'll all be happy again. I mean, that was so typically atheist of him biggrin


Are you a big Dungeons and Dragons DragonLance fan? Man, I spent my entire teens, twenties and into my thirties playing pen and paper D'n'D, even DMed a DragonLance campaign for my friends. My memory is a bit hazy, but is your avatar Lord Soth?

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A shame I can't see that "naughty" post! frown


And nope, I wasn't out of order. That's true what I said - if you approve of pointless torture forever for even petty crimes (or even for any kind of crimes... that's just wrong), you are a sick, cruel bastard.
Why do we punish criminals by putting them in prison? The answer is obvious - to improve them, so they don't do the same again (unless we know there is no chance - but even then we DON'T torture them...). Punishing FOREVER in horrible pain and suffering without any chance of redemption and improving is pointless and cruel - you can't be forgiven in hell.The punishment has no sense. You suffer forever because you... masturbated. Or had sex. Did something that hurts noone, yet is good for you.

But no, they want bread and circuses, and if someone disagrees they apparently enjoy making naughty posts! :*

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Originally Posted by GabeN


I can say being 75% sure you're catholic (25% odds for Islam/Jew), who probably haven't read the bible even once - just like my parents did... And because of that you don't really know that your god isn't really a god of mercy, he's cruel and disgusting, far worse even than Hitler, Stalin and all the evil people included - at least nazi leader doesn't want to make anyone suffer forever for petty "crimes" (which aren't really crimes) such as masturbation, homosexualism, bad thoughts, not believing in his petty story with no proof and contradictions on lot of pages, etcetera.


Then you're an idiot. I don't believe in The Holy Trinity and thus I can't be Catholic. Never once did I call myself Catholic. I could be Buddhist, Jewish or even Muslim but you assume everyone who believes in God must be Christian because you hate them because they don't swear and don't want porn in games. I've read The Bible from start to finish and I've seen it proven with the archaeological evidence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artifacts_significant_to_the_Bible

This means that The Bible is indeed true and this means God is true. If God is real (which He is) that makes Him the moral lawgiver and if He proclaims paedophilia, homosexuality, murder and porn are wrong, who am I to judge Him? I think you'll find God is a loving God, He proved that with Jesus - His son who forgave adulterers, forgave those who killed Him, forgave the one who betrayed Him and forgave the ones who mocked Him and then died for us. That sounds like a very merciful and loving God to me. But once again, you're bringing religion back into this and I told you to leave it of off the game forums and since you attacked my religion, I had to defend it back.

Originally Posted by GabeN


Of course violence is different. Violence is full of bad things, and there's no bad things about sex/porn if you do everything right. If you prefer children to watch a man being torn in half by giantic saw, screaming as his intestines drop on the floor than to let them watch some porn, I say you're a sick person.



Wow. You actually think the original poster wanted violence like that? Children see blood at early age when they cut themselves, to exclude it from a game for 12 year olds is just plain stupid but to include porn in a game for children is just plain sick. I never claimed to want intestines spilling out of my enemy when I kill him in Divinity II. I claimed that having some blood spill from the enemy, would make me feel immersion into the combat more. Having limbs flying everywhere would make the game an 18 and even Dragon Age didn't have that kind of violence.

Having some blood spill from an enemy when you attack them is hardly nothing and children see this at school when they get into fights, in programs on before the watershed and even in films that are aimed at children (not young, maybe 10 - 13 years of age).

Having nudity, sex scenes and sexual references in a game like Divinity II, just wouldn't be right. Nudity shouldn't be included in games like Divinity II regardless of morals here. Blood would make sense in Divinity II, nudity wouldn't. That's all that needs to be said. There are no romance sub plots so why should any nudity be in the game? Women never ran around medieval England naked (which if memory serves me correct, was against the law and still is) wielding a sword. So if we're being reasonable here, blood had more chance of making it into the next Divinity game than nudity.

Originally Posted by GabeN


So why exactly lust is bad? No, "god said so" won't work. No, "many peepls are slaves fer porn industry!" won't work, since some people just WANT to be watched and upload their videos for free/petty money, or they are professionals and probably live in villas for their effort... Etcetera



This is completely untrue. Most porn stars are depressed. Can you give another reason why someone would degrade themselves for videos? Saying "because they WANT too" is poor logic. Next you will be trying to justify prostitution.

Anyway, how all of this stemmed from one man's wish for some blood in the game is beyond me.

Last edited by Demonic; 08/02/11 05:37 PM.
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