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Re: Wishlist [Re: Asyreon] #465420
30/04/13 06:21 PM
30/04/13 06:21 PM
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Singbird Offline
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Originally Posted by Asyreon

UI


I don't know. Instead of a simplification it sounds like a complication. I think it's more simple when the mechanics work the same regardless of situation.

Besides, you won't ever need to switch out skills since you'll have 12 quick-action bars! Well at least a few, hopefully.

Options

It would be nice to have an option to specify where the save games will be put. Practically no game does this and you have to look in 10 places to find the saves for a particular game. Would make backing up simpler, too.

Re: Wishlist [Re: Singbird] #465422
30/04/13 06:43 PM
30/04/13 06:43 PM
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Belgium
theBlackDragon Offline

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Originally Posted by Singbird
Originally Posted by Asyreon

UI


I don't know. Instead of a simplification it sounds like a complication. I think it's more simple when the mechanics work the same regardless of situation.

Besides, you won't ever need to switch out skills since you'll have 12 quick-action bars! Well at least a few, hopefully.

Options

It would be nice to have an option to specify where the save games will be put. Practically no game does this and you have to look in 10 places to find the saves for a particular game. Would make backing up simpler, too.


Microsoft seems to have a standard for this, alas, few games follow it. Still leaves the question of where to put them on mac/linux wide open though.


* as usual this is imho (unless stated otherwise); feel free to disagree, ignore or try to change my mind. Agreeing with me is ofc also allowed, but makes for much worse flamewarsarguments.

It is a full moon night and ... bèèè! ... the Weresheep are out...
Re: Wishlist [Re: theBlackDragon] #465424
30/04/13 08:05 PM
30/04/13 08:05 PM
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Krynn
ForkTong Offline

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The Microsoft rule isn't all that good either IMO, it's hidden under appdata somewhere. I still prefer savegames to be in your "Documents"/"My Documents" folder, because for support reasons, that is the easiest.

And for technical reasons, it's bloody hard to get them saved in "Program files" or the game folder itself. Same reason why we cannot just ask you where to save them: security, access, and multiple users...


Tweeting @forktong
Re: Wishlist [Re: ForkTong] #465425
30/04/13 08:08 PM
30/04/13 08:08 PM
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Krynn
ForkTong Offline

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Arhu: we have the cursor graphic thing changing depending on what you're gonna do with the item/character/whatever. I'll have to read this thread cause I saw more that I wanted to react on.


Tweeting @forktong
Re: Wishlist [Re: ForkTong] #465427
30/04/13 08:15 PM
30/04/13 08:15 PM
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meme Offline

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Can you shatter frozen opponents (ala mass effect) ?

Re: Wishlist [Re: ForkTong] #465428
30/04/13 08:22 PM
30/04/13 08:22 PM
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Belgium
theBlackDragon Offline

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Originally Posted by ForkTong
The Microsoft rule isn't all that good either IMO, it's hidden under appdata somewhere. I still prefer savegames to be in your "Documents"/"My Documents" folder, because for support reasons, that is the easiest.

And for technical reasons, it's bloody hard to get them saved in "Program files" or the game folder itself. Same reason why we cannot just ask you where to save them: security, access, and multiple users...


Afaik it's actually "My documents/My games" or the language specific version thereof. Of course lots of lazy devs hardcode the path (so it breaks on non English Windows versions) or dump it somewhere else in My Documents.


* as usual this is imho (unless stated otherwise); feel free to disagree, ignore or try to change my mind. Agreeing with me is ofc also allowed, but makes for much worse flamewarsarguments.

It is a full moon night and ... bèèè! ... the Weresheep are out...
Re: Wishlist [Re: Stabbey] #465430
30/04/13 09:10 PM
30/04/13 09:10 PM
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Asyreon Offline

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Regarding combats, I didn't considered the possibility to rest while fighting, I think we all agree on the fact it's unacceptable.
Same on the fact that monsters should get back to full health/mana if you rest.
What I had in mind by "abuse" was the fact of sleeping after each fights. It'd clearly diminish the need of potions.
DD limited it, indeed, but it wasn't clear as to why you couldn't rest for a while. Your character wasn't tired enough to sleep, I guess.
One thing I forgot to point out, you shouldn't be able to rest your your partner is fighting (for the same reason I stated earlier, i.e. the time-gap).

As for locking the bar in combat, I understand your point. Maybe it's not such a good idea to lock it automatically in combat, however I maintain the idea of locking it if needed (for convenience purpose, for it'd prevent the "drag-and-drop-by-mistake" effect).
Anyway, I doubt we'll often change our skills in combat, especially if a time-limit is imposed for each turns (which I hope will be implemented, to preserve a relatively fast-paced action).
It'd be interesting to add a second/third bar however, so that we could easily switch of builds and quickly adapt ourselves to the enemies.

Re: Wishlist [Re: Asyreon] #465434
30/04/13 09:42 PM
30/04/13 09:42 PM
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Stabbey Offline
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Thanks for reading the ramblings of our diseased brains, Forktong.


For network play, the host has the option to set a time limit for turns. I suppose that would work in single-player if you started a multiplayer game and didn't let anyone join, but I don't want that mandatory, as it defeats the entire point of a turn-based combat system in the first place.

Re: Wishlist [Re: Raze] #465435
30/04/13 10:26 PM
30/04/13 10:26 PM
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Sorry if this was mentioned but PLEASE can we have an item compare. It is so annoying to have to figure out what things are better. In almost every video I watched there was a point where this feature was needed.

Re: Wishlist [Re: Voodoou] #465438
30/04/13 11:31 PM
30/04/13 11:31 PM
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Helena L Offline
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Originally Posted by Voodoou
Sorry if this was mentioned but PLEASE can we have an item compare. It is so annoying to have to figure out what things are better. In almost every video I watched there was a point where this feature was needed.

YES. Honestly, this was a godsend in Dragon Age (the only other game where I've seen a feature like that).

Re: Wishlist [Re: Helena L] #465446
01/05/13 01:11 AM
01/05/13 01:11 AM
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Stabbey Offline
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Tooltip compare will be in eventually, but it isn't ready in the pre-alpha.

Re: Wishlist [Re: Stabbey] #465456
01/05/13 04:33 AM
01/05/13 04:33 AM
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Helena its actuallu in many many games in the sameish(yes I made that word up =P) genre as D:OS.. one reason why I even brought it up lol. @Stabbey ty for the response and good to hear!

Re: Wishlist [Re: ForkTong] #465477
01/05/13 09:51 AM
01/05/13 09:51 AM
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Arhu Offline OP
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Originally Posted by ForkTong
Arhu: we have the cursor graphic thing changing depending on what you're gonna do with the item/character/whatever. I'll have to read this thread cause I saw more that I wanted to react on.

Cool. Got to admit I haven't watched the videos too closely due to lack of time and quietness. Have fun reading. smile

Re: Wishlist [Re: Arhu] #465517
01/05/13 05:58 PM
01/05/13 05:58 PM
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Actions should have lasting consequences on the game world, both large and small. This can take many forms; some examples:

- NPCs recognize you and react to what they've heard about you, e.g. by cheering or fleeing in terror.
- Objects get built or destroyed. In the course of a quest, you could get NPCs to build a shrine or burn down a house, and the shrine or the charred ruins stay there for the rest of the game, a visible reminder of your influence on the world.
- Objects or even the landscape change depending on what you've done. You've helped a farmer against some bandits? Maybe his fields are in full bloom because of you. You've sided with the bandits, killed the farmer and plundered his belongings? The crops may wither and the animals may starve to death or perhaps the bandits move in and prove to be better farmers than the original one ever was wink

All of this provides the feeling of having achieved something and can even be a better reward than some XP and some gold.

Re: Wishlist [Re: Arhu] #465687
03/05/13 11:18 PM
03/05/13 11:18 PM
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Asyreon Offline

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Magic

- About the special attacks, if they're implemented : A short combination of keys (arrow keys for instance) have to be entered to activate it (On the model of a QTE), within a limit of time.
It doesn't particularly enhance the tactical part, I just think it adds a "rewarding" aspect to the process of casting a powerful spell, along with an extra difficulty.

- I've thought of 2 types of magics, nothing new but I've tried to put a name on preexisting spells, to gather them into a single school :

  • Matter magic : Gather everything revolving around the idea of matter and everything which influence it, such as weight/gravity (Spells which weigh down or lighten something/someone, slowing an enemy or making him move faster; gravity-modifying spell, which would attract enemies/friends/projectiles alike to a given point), levitation (which make the target impervious to environmental effects), psychokinesis, teleportation.
  • Optical magic : Illusions, lighting modifications (making himself invisible, globs of light, veil of darkness), perception of the world (unveiling magically-hidden objects/traps/enemies, seeing through the walls).

I've not mentioned Necromancy cause it's already envisaged IIRC.
If not, well you can add it to the list.

- Another way of learning skills could be to figure them out, through the monsters, by watching them.
Apart from the accelerated learning of normal skills, in conjunction with the regular process, we could learn special attacks otherwise unlearnable.

- The possibility to merge himself with an element (with a new visual appearance).
For example, if I conflate myself with the element of Fire, I momentarily gain a higher resistance to fire, my fire skills gains additional effects (or I have a new set of skills related to fire ?), I cannot be frozen and leave a trail of fire behind me.
However, I'm much more vulnerable to water spells, which inflict me more damages and blind me because of the fog which result from its contact.

Environment

- It's probably already considered, but using water on lava/ice on water should create a platform to walk on, for a few seconds.
If it's connected to a bank, it stands still. If it's not, it's carried away by the flux of the lava/water.

- How far can the environment be modified ? It'd be cool if we could dig a trench, connect it to a stream, thus deviating it and flooding an entire village .
Interesting perspective...

Fights

I have to shamelessly advertise for Arhu's "12 ways to improved turnbased RPG combat", because I guess it'll have more visibility here and because its first 2 pages are interesting. I hope it'll be read.

Last edited by Asyreon; 04/05/13 11:43 AM.
Re: Wishlist [Re: Asyreon] #465688
03/05/13 11:32 PM
03/05/13 11:32 PM
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Canada
Raze Offline

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Originally Posted by Asyreon
A short combination of keys (arrow keys for instance) have to be entered to activate it (On the model of a QTE), within a limit of time.

No. That doesn't really fit with turn based combat, and is a horrible idea anyway.

Re: Wishlist [Re: Asyreon] #465689
03/05/13 11:34 PM
03/05/13 11:34 PM
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Stabbey Offline
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Originally Posted by Asyreon
Magic

- About the special attacks, if they're implemented : A short combination of keys (arrow keys for instance) have to be entered to activate it (On the model of a QTE), within a limit of time.
It doesn't particularly enhance the tactical part, I just think it adds a "rewarding" aspect to the process of casting a powerful spell, along with an extra difficulty.


I'm not even sure what you're talking about, but I think that a series of button-presses with a time limit to cast does not fit the style of this game in any way at all. This game is about careful positioning and thoughtful tactics, not rapid-fire button mashing.


Quote
- I've thought of 2 types of magics, nothing new but I've tried to put a name on preexisting spells, to gather them into a single school :

  • Matter magic : Gather everything revolving around the idea of matter and everything which influence it, such as weight/gravity (Spells which weigh down or lighten something/someone, slowing an enemy or making him move faster; gravity-modifying spell, which would attract enemies/friends/projectiles alike to a given point), levitation (which make the target impervious to environmental effects), psychokinesis, teleportation.
  • Optical magic : Illusions, lighting modifications (making himself invisible, globs of light, veil of darkness), perception of the world (unveiling magically-hidden objects/traps/enemies, seeing through the walls).

I've not mentioned Necromancy cause it's already envisaged IIRC.
If not, well you can add it to the list.


Maybe. It depends on how many other magic skills are around. Some of these are probably planned in some form.

Quote
- Another way of learning skills could be to figure them out, through the monsters, by watching them.
Apart from the accelerated learning of normal skills, in conjunction with the regular process, we could learn special attacks otherwise unlearnable.


I'm not sure that fits with the way you learn skills. The other Divinity games had all available skills on a list and you spent skill points on them. I'm not sure concealing skills by forcing them to be learned in a specific way will be that helpful.


Quote
- The possibility to merge himself with an element (with a new visual appearance).
For example, if I conflate myself with the element of Fire, I momentarily gain a higher resistance to fire, my fire skills gains additional effects (or I have a new set of skills related to fire ?), I cannot be frozen and leave a trail of fire behind me.
However, I'm much more vulnerable to water spells, which inflict me more damages and blind me because of the fog which result from its contact.


Elemental power booster spells sound okay, although it doesn't need to be flashy. For example, the trail of fire is also problematic. If it's only a visual effect, it could be confusing or visual clutter. If it's an actual trail of fire, it will be annoying for allies who will get injured and have to work around the trail.


Quote
- How far can the environment be modified ? It'd be cool if we could dig a trench, connect it to a stream, thus deviating it and flooding an entire village .
Interesting perspective...


Not THAT far, certainly. There's only so much stuff that is reasonable to put into an RPG, and that's beyond the scope.



Please don't implement this idea [Re: Stabbey] #465691
04/05/13 01:03 AM
04/05/13 01:03 AM
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rupuka Offline
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QTE don't fit very well in a turn based combat game (or most games imo) but it does remind me of the spell-casting mechanic in some roguelikes, you have a rune tablet and depending of the different runes picked you can cast a variety of spells (the more recent example is probably legend of grimrock), is not a QTE but it has some of the difficult and rewarding aspects that Asyreon is talking about, probably a slow mechanic for this game and not something that i would like to see in it, but looking for new spells books is always a nice incentive for exploration and, if learning source magic is a really important part of the plot, it makes the learning process more tangible

More ontopic, the option to personalize the protagonists portraits

Re: Wishlist [Re: Stabbey] #465708
04/05/13 01:09 PM
04/05/13 01:09 PM
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Asyreon Offline

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Originally Posted by Raze
No. That doesn't really fit with turn based combat, and is a horrible idea anyway.


Originally Posted by Stabbey
I'm not even sure what you're talking about, but I think that a series of button-presses with a time limit to cast does not fit the style of this game in any way at all. This game is about careful positioning and thoughtful tactics, not rapid-fire button mashing.


Originally Posted by rupuka
QTE don't fit very well in a turn based combat game (or most games imo) [...]

I think I clearly explained what I meant by QTE, example which I took because it's one of the simpliest operation to implement, within reach of the average human aptitudes.
I guess you extended the concept to the whole system, which I actually carefully limited to the special moves (i.e the most powerful skills), because it makes perfect sense that the strongest attacks should require something else than pure mana management.
It's certainly not just "rapid-fire button-mashing", it's also about managing your time, which is already a ressource in itself because of the limit per turn, hence the idea of the QTE.
Thus, a QTE (or whatever you can think of which would induce another kind of ressource management) strictly limited to the special moves is not only in adequacy with the game mechanics but also add another aspect to the time management.
It doesn't break the rhythm of the fights at all.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
I'm not sure that fits with the way you learn skills. The other Divinity games had all available skills on a list and you spent skill points on them. I'm not sure concealing skills by forcing them to be learned in a specific way will be that helpful.

It's supposed to work in conjunction with the regular way of learning, no matter its form in D:OS, in no way should it force you to choose between both. It'd only be a requirement for "special attacks", which we could consider as a side hunt.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
Elemental power booster spells sound okay, although it doesn't need to be flashy. For example, the trail of fire is also problematic. If it's only a visual effect, it could be confusing or visual clutter. If it's an actual trail of fire, it will be annoying for allies who will get injured and have to work around the trail.

The visual alteration affect the character's appearance to reflect the change, but the "trail of fire" idea would not just be visual, it'd have actual effects, but in the end it's just another kind of environmental effect, it wouldn't break the balance.
Allies, should the trail not be retained, would have to deal with these kind of mechanics anyway.
I forgot to mention it should be cast only once per fights, else it'd make some fights way too easy against certain enemies, should they be specialized in fire spells for instance.

Originally Posted by Stabbey
Not THAT far, certainly. There's only so much stuff that is reasonable to put into an RPG, and that's beyond the scope.

I don't think they're reasoning in term of what's reasonable and what's not but rather what can be implemented, its usefulness and what ressources would it require to implement it.
As long as environmental modification is taken into account, any idea can be risen. It's up to Larian to decide whether or not it'd require too much ressources to be implemented.
Digging could have other utilities, such as infiltrating, hiding or unearthing treasures.
Moreover it was a question more than an idea, I just want to know how far does the system allow us to influence on the environment, to get a better overview of the possibilities offered to the player.

Re: Wishlist [Re: Asyreon] #465711
04/05/13 02:59 PM
04/05/13 02:59 PM
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Stabbey Offline
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I don't care how special or powerful the moves are. No QTE's in a turn-based combat system.

I don't mind an elemental booster skill, or a trail of fire skill, but separate them into two skills so I don't create a fire barrier between my allies and the enemy when I just want to boost my power.

This game is not Minecraft, so I'm quite sure that letting players modify terrain to divert rivers would indeed require far too many resources to implement. I'm sure you know that they didn't have the resources to do a traits and talents thing until the KS, and that seems far less complicated.

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