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Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon

Let there be bikini.

And I say let there be scrubs who enjoy seeing naked people and don't know what fashion in cloth, leather and steel is!
Seriously!
As Scar said "I am surrounded by idiots"


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Originally Posted by Marius Voinescu
Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon

Let there be bikini.

And I say let there be scrubs who enjoy seeing naked people and don't know what fashion in cloth, leather and steel is!
Seriously!
As Scar said "I am surrounded by idiots"


I am flattered that your opinion of me is so high. I shall continue to think on my life and how I can improve it to best fit your opinion of how it should be. think

Sarcasm aside your sense of fashion seems to be completely off I fear. silence

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Originally Posted by Marius Voinescu
Originally Posted by Darth_Trethon

Let there be bikini.

And I say let there be scrubs who enjoy seeing naked people and don't know what fashion in cloth, leather and steel is!
Seriously!
As Scar said "I am surrounded by idiots"

Your are not very good in accepting other opinions, aren't you?

Originally Posted by Kein
Like they had a choice with all of this crap. So much for development freedom. I'm eagerly awaiting what will be next target.

If i get it right, the initial pressure comes from the medias not from the users. Additionally there is no such thing as "development freedom" as long as you want to sell the software ...

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@Raptor I will be very honest with you in the form of a question.
And the question is "Is any one capable of accepting others opinions in a subject where he/she believes only their ideas are valid?"
In this subject of fantasy armor, I personally believe at least some practicality and good fashion and decency is needed to make the heroine/hero capable of fighting a battle against what ever odds.

Now I will not in any way, claim mine is the ultimate truth. NO! Any one and every one is free to believe as they like, and the developers job is a hard one since they have to try and please all their fans. That ofc is always hard, however in this case all Larian needs to do is make the armors not to over top, not to skimpy and not overly heavy regardless of material.

Now what I have seen thus far in terms of armor for females and males a bit leads me to believe the armors are in my mind much to skimpy.
Now I would like to politely ask all of you great fans of Larian to nicely post one or two pictures here in the thread to prove me wrong. Please [i][/i]


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@Raptor: You are very right in saying development freedom is not really a thing when profits must be made. They cannot do very many things that might be fun and fulfilling to create if they simply won't sell. As such, no moral or sexism argument can really make this decision for them if they wish to make a profit upon a game that will be good regardless of the armor art styles.

That being said, there is a way to find a balance between their personal choices as a company, the requests of their fans, and the needs they must fulfill to sell to the mass market beyond their hardcore fans (usually this is where things become more problematic, imo, and why smaller budget games for a fanbase might be the most consistent and least sacrificial method).

I think we can probably all be happy/charitable about the art so long as we are not seeing the two extremes of near-nakedness and walking castle, and let them decide further at this point what they need to do to sell their game. I just want to avoid the high heels and bikini armor, since I think it looks ridiculous and doesn't fit with my conception of an adventuring woman at all (i.e. it actively rips me out of taking her seriously as a character). If I don't have to wear that, I can deal with armor showing off more skin than is healthy practically.

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Originally Posted by Rod Lightning
Dragon Age didn't do things right in my opinion but whtever. Too freaking over the top.


Compared to 99% of the games out there they did it very right.

Of course *real* armor (male and female) would look pretty bland compared to even the plainest of game armors (well, except when it's a parade set I guess). And full plate wasn't usually worn on foot either, especially not if one was planning on hiking many kilometers like adventurers generally do.


* as usual this is imho (unless stated otherwise); feel free to disagree, ignore or try to change my mind. Agreeing with me is ofc also allowed, but makes for much worse flamewarsarguments.

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Originally Posted by Marius Voinescu

Now I would like to politely ask all of you great fans of Larian to nicely post one or two pictures here in the thread to prove me wrong. Please [i][/i]

No one bothered to post anything frown


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Well 90% of what I play right now is Skyrim, and they choose, more or less, to make it more realistic. Honestly I would feel pretty weird if the female versions of armor became bikini's. Granted, the modders took care of that problem.

Here's some images I took that I like.

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/047/5/d/screenshot59_by_burhenn63-d5v749i.jpg

http://fc05.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/065/1/f/myrna_05_by_burhenn63-d5x5j7s.jpg

http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2013/065/8/6/myrna_02_by_burhenn63-d5x5hg3.jpg

http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2013/065/3/c/myrna_by_burhenn63-d5x5163.jpg

I'll also add that I loved DA:O's versions of the armors and thought they did an excellent job with the armors.

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Originally Posted by Marius Voinescu
Originally Posted by Marius Voinescu

Now I would like to politely ask all of you great fans of Larian to nicely post one or two pictures here in the thread to prove me wrong. Please [i][/i]

No one bothered to post anything frown


Here are some screenshots from steam D:OS page (sorry I do not have the time right now to do my own screenshots):

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=223116240

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=219550402

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=219155721

So far, I have not seen any chainmail bikini armor in the game at all (except for zandalor underwears^^)

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Ok that's fair enough, I actually like those pictures, they are not that hd but they are fine smile


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Originally Posted by YoungFreshNewbie
@Raptor: You are very right in saying development freedom is not really a thing when profits must be made. They cannot do very many things that might be fun and fulfilling to create if they simply won't sell. As such, no moral or sexism argument can really make this decision for them if they wish to make a profit upon a game that will be good regardless of the armor art styles.

That being said, there is a way to find a balance between their personal choices as a company, the requests of their fans, and the needs they must fulfill to sell to the mass market beyond their hardcore fans (usually this is where things become more problematic, imo, and why smaller budget games for a fanbase might be the most consistent and least sacrificial method).

I think we can probably all be happy/charitable about the art so long as we are not seeing the two extremes of near-nakedness and walking castle, and let them decide further at this point what they need to do to sell their game. I just want to avoid the high heels and bikini armor, since I think it looks ridiculous and doesn't fit with my conception of an adventuring woman at all (i.e. it actively rips me out of taking her seriously as a character). If I don't have to wear that, I can deal with armor showing off more skin than is healthy practically.


Disclaimer: I haven't read the whole thread.

That said, are you suggesting that revealing armour is an important sales point for a majority of people out there? Are there really that many people out there who think: "This is a pretty good game, but the women don't show enough skin, so I won't buy it."? I don't think so. There's a reason it's called eye candy - it's nice to look at (not for everyone, of course, especially people like you and me who prefer immersion), but nobody would not buy a good game because of that.

Revealing armour in box art and promotional stuff naturally gets more attention, but that's a different matter.

And lastly, I fully expect full plate armour to look like a walking castle - not as over the top as in the first post here, because that suggests armour half a meter thick, but definitely bulky, even on a woman. I can't imagine anyone designing lighter armour like a leather or chain mail shirt to look bulky, so I wouldn't expect a castle there.

My hope is that robes and other mage-y outfits aren't overly sexy, at least not exclusively. I prefer playing wizards, mages and other magic users and some games don't leave me any choice but to leave my female characters half naked. On the other hand, I hope they don't have only robes - This video makes a good case. Just consider his usage of the word gay as a synonym for gaudy. wink

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Originally Posted by Unwerth

Disclaimer: I haven't read the whole thread.

That said, are you suggesting that revealing armour is an important sales point for a majority of people out there? Are there really that many people out there who think: "This is a pretty good game, but the women don't show enough skin, so I won't buy it."? I don't think so. There's a reason it's called eye candy - it's nice to look at (not for everyone, of course, especially people like you and me who prefer immersion), but nobody would not buy a good game because of that.

Revealing armour in box art and promotional stuff naturally gets more attention, but that's a different matter.

That said (plus my post from above) I simply don't understand why most RPGs (or MMOs/asia grinder out there) show female armor as "very tiny" lingerie.

The only reason I can suggest is, the Developer/Publisher expect that this fact boost the sell-count.

Short side story: It seems there are right with this expectation. For the Female Caracters in Warface (booring FPS from Crytek) was "Sexualized" after listening to the target audience (Source: PCGamer

As the pictures shows, DOS goes a very realistic looking way ...

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Originally Posted by Unwerth
That said, are you suggesting that revealing armour is an important sales point for a majority of people out there? Are there really that many people out there who think: "This is a pretty good game, but the women don't show enough skin, so I won't buy it."? I don't think so. There's a reason it's called eye candy - it's nice to look at (not for everyone, of course, especially people like you and me who prefer immersion), but nobody would not buy a good game because of that.


I don't know, there is only one reason I bought Champions of Norrath for the PS2. ... ... ... Ok, maybe there were two reasons. wink

I like eye-candy for eye-candy's sake. I like Boris and Royo art, etc. But if I am actually role-playing ... no, I just really don't want the eye-candy there.

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Originally Posted by LeBurns
I don't know, there is only one reason I bought Champions of Norrath for the PS2. ... ... ... Ok, maybe there were two reasons. wink

I like eye-candy for eye-candy's sake. I like Boris and Royo art, etc. But if I am actually role-playing ... no, I just really don't want the eye-candy there.


Well, yeah, since art is practically 100 % dependent on its "graphics", people enjoy pieces of art for their visuals.

Games, though ... There's thousands out there for people who just want to see half-naked women, and I like to think that people who are interested in RPGs are above that. I might be a bit nave.

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A piece of steel to protect the chest used to be pretty expensive, as well as well made weapons. So, if you consider this fact, it would be pretty common both lowborn male and female warriors and adventurers to have a few parts of armor to protect themselves, while a noble and rich people would be able to afford a full plate armor. Also, armors are made of many diferent layers of diferent materials.

This is a fantasy game, but that concept would explain the "bikini armors"...

maybe, if characters could have an extra slot to equip clothes of diferent kinds that would show beneth the armor... so you could have cloth and chainmails under the armor or take it out to show the female character's atributes.

A good example of that idea is Neverwinter (online). I don't know if its something easy and viable to make, but surely would please both publics.

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There are quite a few games that do away with the bland stereotype of female fantasy armor. One of these I would like to mention is the in development Sui Generis that features a dynamic aiming and combat system, if you look at their latest trailer you will see that the female protagonist have some well made armor and apparel https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BuOzmyED5qA


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Originally Posted by kanjika
A piece of steel to protect the chest used to be pretty expensive, as well as well made weapons. So, if you consider this fact, it would be pretty common both lowborn male and female warriors and adventurers to have a few parts of armor to protect themselves, while a noble and rich people would be able to afford a full plate armor. Also, armors are made of many diferent layers of diferent materials.

This is a fantasy game, but that concept would explain the "bikini armors"...

maybe, if characters could have an extra slot to equip clothes of diferent kinds that would show beneth the armor... so you could have cloth and chainmails under the armor or take it out to show the female character's atributes.

A good example of that idea is Neverwinter (online). I don't know if its something easy and viable to make, but surely would please both publics.


Bikini armour shows bare skin, especially cleavage and the belly. Both of these regions would be protected at least marginally by even the most destitute warrior, if only by pieces of leather or cloth. Most vital organs are in that region, so why would anyone with any kind of sense leave them unprotected? And yes, people of the time probably would've known that a hit in the stomach or chest was bad.

This is probably more fantasy than reality, but a poor warrior would probably scavenge for bits he could use and at least bolt some metal parts on a vest. Bare skin is just a complete no-go in any kind of setting that doesn't want to rely on titillation.

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Originally Posted by Unwerth
[quote=kanjika]
This is probably more fantasy than reality, but a poor warrior would probably scavenge for bits he could use and at least bolt some metal parts on a vest. Bare skin is just a complete no-go in any kind of setting that doesn't want to rely on titillation.

Now here is someone speaking with sense, thank god! Who ever came up with fantasy female "armor" be damned!


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Originally Posted by Unwerth


Bikini armour shows bare skin, especially cleavage and the belly. Both of these regions would be protected at least marginally by even the most destitute warrior, if only by pieces of leather or cloth. Most vital organs are in that region, so why would anyone with any kind of sense leave them unprotected? And yes, people of the time probably would've known that a hit in the stomach or chest was bad.


you tell that to roman gladiators... they had some leather straps with metal parts to protect the heart and sometimes the shoulder or an arm so it could not be easily be crippled and unnable to wield its weapon... and loincloth...

Originally Posted by Unwerth


This is probably more fantasy than reality, but a poor warrior would probably scavenge for bits he could use and at least bolt some metal parts on a vest. Bare skin is just a complete no-go in any kind of setting that doesn't want to rely on titillation.


my point is exactly that... one must protect itself with whatever he can afford, be it shopping or scavenging or running or whatever... but really, would you expect to scavenge a full matching armor not worn out? considering the guy wearing it died with a blow that didn't hit the armor at all, it could happen... but not all armors might fit every type of warrior... right? (consider height, weight and strength)

just to make it clear: i don't defend bikini armors... but as I have stated and you apprently agreed, pieces of armor to protect vital parts is not the problem, but what is underneath... be it cloth, leather, chainmail or skin

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Originally Posted by kanjika

you tell that to roman gladiators... they had some leather straps with metal parts to protect the heart and sometimes the shoulder or an arm so it could not be easily be crippled and unnable to wield its weapon... and loincloth...


Gladiators did it for show, not because it was a good idea. Actual Roman soldiers wore actual armour and hid behind shields.

Originally Posted by kanjika
my point is exactly that... one must protect itself with whatever he can afford, be it shopping or scavenging or running or whatever... but really, would you expect to scavenge a full matching armor not worn out? considering the guy wearing it died with a blow that didn't hit the armor at all, it could happen... but not all armors might fit every type of warrior... right? (consider height, weight and strength)

just to make it clear: i don't defend bikini armors... but as I have stated and you apprently agreed, pieces of armor to protect vital parts is not the problem, but what is underneath... be it cloth, leather, chainmail or skin


I never talked about scavenging a full and fitting suit of armour, I talked about scavenging bits and pieces, as one does. I can pretty much guarantee you, though, that nobody in the history of ever thought exposing ones belly or cleavage was good sense when it came to protecting themselves. Also, you apparently don't consider those parts vital, but they are.

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