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Lar_q #460379 13/01/13 04:56 PM
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Strength:
Damage (melee)
Damage absorption (melee)
Damage (ranged) #1

Dexterity:
Cost of movement
Chance to hit (melee)
Chance to be hit(melee/ranged)
Critical hit chance (melee)
Damage (ranged) #2

Intelligence:
Willpower
Mana
Plenty of resistances
Damage (magic)
Charisma

Speed:
Initiative
Action points


Perception:
Chance to hit (ranged)
Critical hit chance (ranged)
Evade

Constitution:
Hitpoints
Energy



I would add two more stats personally.

Spirit was used as a primary stat in several Final Fantasy games. Quote from a wiki: "Spirit is a recurring stat in some of the Final Fantasy series and it has had various uses. It some games it acts as the game's Magic Defense, but in others it can affect the outcomes of spells and other skills."

My perception of Spirit is that it's similar to willpower but in a magical sense. Spirit provides resistance to the ethereal and elements as well as mana. This way a character who is not strong in magic could still gain defense against magic and use magic more freely.

I like the idea of making Willpower a primary stat. I would make it increase the chance to resist negative status effects and something else which fits, maybe a chance to auto-revive or deal a last move when you are KOd.


I don't really like "speed" as a stat, partly because of the word but also because it sort of conflicts with Dexterity.

Originally I put Charisma under Perception because reading body language helps you in a conversation, but became unsure as I did with ranged defense and critical damage.

Last edited by theNILE; 13/01/13 05:02 PM.
theNILE #460401 14/01/13 04:38 PM
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Haven't read anything, but I like Perception very much.
I think that it can be distorted, too. A spell which maes a double image of a person (there's a TDE spell doing the same) : Check on Perception, maybe.
Other ways of distortion the perception could be done via poison, alcohol, or by a fanatical point of view (spiritual distortion of Perception ?).

Another thing I intantly thought of while reading "perception" is this : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_sensitive_persons

Besides, I just wondered whether "positive distortion" of Perception would be possible as well ? For example in an fantasy setting, meditation could perhaps give Percetion a bonus ?
Perception ... finding traces in the sand ? Traces of wild animals, ob criminals, too ? Of treasures, buried ?

Regarding the "social skills" : TDE has an "Social Status", abbreviated as "SO", which is a numerical value for checks of the social status ... For example, Peasant speaking to a Lord or a Lady.


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Kein #460408 14/01/13 08:43 PM
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Kein: Vandal Hearts did everything through items iirc. We did talk about that option for a while, but a lot of us decided that we are no fans of that... I think it may be easier to balance out, but you may quickly leave item generation out that way, and then you're throwing item fever out the door.

J747L: one stat point per level up came from the idea that there will not be as many encounters as in a hack and slash game, so level up should feel very important, and the impact of one stat point will be bigger than for instance in DivDiv where you had five stat points every time. With this stat system we tried to build specific "roles" and succeeded well, even if after ten levels for instance you want to add another role to your character. Also, items with stat boosts will enable you to make a more balanced allrounder if you want and you'll probably be able to respec (though we don't yet know how :))

theNILE: Speed and DEX are different because to me, DEX is about how handy you are. For instance, a magician is dexterous but that doesn't make him fast (or even have good aim, but that's another discussion that I shouldn't have with RPG players :)).

I'm gonna introduce the idea of having willpower as an extra stat though.. I think it makes sense. We have willpower as a secondary stat and use it, but it's not really clear what it depends on atm. Let's hope programmers don't kill me smile (And the producer. Oh wait that's me. I should be smarter than this. Let's see what impact this has on the game/data/....)

Alrik: you're quite right about the uses of perception smile And don't forget we have reputation as a "party stat" and that every NPC has an attitude towards every character.


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ForkTong #460410 14/01/13 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by ForkTong
J747L: one stat point per level up came from the idea that there will not be as many encounters as in a hack and slash game, so level up should feel very important, and the impact of one stat point will be bigger than for instance in DivDiv where you had five stat points every time. With this stat system we tried to build specific "roles" and succeeded well, even if after ten levels for instance you want to add another role to your character. Also, items with stat boosts will enable you to make a more balanced allrounder if you want and you'll probably be able to respec (though we don't yet know how :))


One stat point per level just feels low, but maybe that's just because I'm used to so many other games that give you 5 stat points or so, but it only affects you incrementally. Maybe one stat point per level will feel right if each point has a VERY noticeable effect.

The idea of using equipment to fill in the holes in your stat point allocation is a good one - just don't make the equipment TOO dependent on specific stat points. If I want some extra intelligence to fill in the holes of my rogue, I don't want to already need 5 points into Intelligence to wear the +5 Intelligence armor.

Ooh... I've got an idea... maybe instead of REQUIRING you to have 5 points into Intelligence to wear that armor, maybe it's simply slightly more effective at protection if you have a base of 5 Intelligence. Same as with weapons - you can use a two-hander even with 1 Strength, sure, but it's not going to be slower and do less damage?
...
Maybe not, that's basically the same thing anyway. Oh well.

Quote
I'm gonna introduce the idea of having willpower as an extra stat though.. I think it makes sense. We have willpower as a secondary stat and use it, but it's not really clear what it depends on atm. Let's hope programmers don't kill me smile (And the producer. Oh wait that's me. I should be smarter than this. Let's see what impact this has on the game/data/....)


That's probably a good idea, even if it does require some re-working about how many skill points will be available on character creation and such.

The hole the ABSENCE of Willpower caused in the primary and secondary attributes became quite obvious when you looked at the other primary attributes - there were two that could be used for fighter types, two that could be used for ranged types, but only one for magic types. Just from the names alone it seemed like all the secondary attributes related to magic would be dependent only on Intelligence.

Willpower could be of additional use for calculating Charisma and for being less affected by alcohol and such. Maybe also if there's a quest where a beautiful [gender] asks you to do something, having a higher willpower will give you a conversation option to demand a better reward or something.

Stabbey #460411 15/01/13 03:20 PM
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One stat point per level just feels low

Well he said the impact will be much more important and noticeable.

Kein #460416 15/01/13 06:13 PM
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Yesterday my character in SWTOR received about 5000 xp for a quest - albeit a very difficult one.
Compared to TDE and the Drakensang offline games, this looks to me s beind ridiculously (spelling ?) high. as a consequence, I just can't understand several thousand of xp points to be given away - and stat points, too, in this case.

To me, it kind of feels like Inflation ... not of currency, but of xp (which can be considered as a "spirit currency", too ...


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Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer
Yesterday my character in SWTOR received about 5000 xp for a quest - albeit a very difficult one.
Compared to TDE and the Drakensang offline games, this looks to me s beind ridiculously (spelling ?) high. as a consequence, I just can't understand several thousand of xp points to be given away - and stat points, too, in this case.

To me, it kind of feels like Inflation ... not of currency, but of xp (which can be considered as a "spirit currency", too ...


It depends ENTIRELY on context. Without context, I have absolutely no idea how much that 5000 XP in Old Republic is actually worth - especially with XP curves being what they are at different player levels.

You get 2500 XP for literally the very first quest in Divine Divinity, but the context is that it takes 2000 XP to go from level 1 to 2. In Divinity 2, that same 2500 XP would be 2-3 levels worth.

Stabbey #460431 16/01/13 11:33 PM
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I like Willpower.

Building up your character to be able to withstand anything and everything thrown at them is a part of a good game for me.

Kein #460433 17/01/13 12:20 AM
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in my opinion, you usually have 3 "kind" of characters : wizzard, rogue, warrior, and each of this kind will privilege stats regarding to their "kind" (of course, in divinity the interesting point is that you can mix thos kind). a

As I can guess, a wizzard will favor intelligence, while a rogue will favor dexterity speed and perhaps perception, and a warrior will favor strength and constitution, so this is not balance.
to my mind, perception and speed should be under stats of dexterity (or strength for the speed). sh the 4 main stats should be :
Strength
Dexterity
Intelligence
Constitution

So, starting to that point, we should have

Strength : Hitpoints, Damage, Critical hit damage (mele), Speed

Dexterity : Initiative, Action points, Perception, Speed, Chance to hit (mele, ranged), Chance to be hit (mele, ranged and magic), Critical hit chance (mele, ranged), Evade (almost the same than chance to be hit).

Intelligence : Plenty of resistances (magic), Mana/Energy(not HP), Damage (magic), Damage absorption (magic), Willpower, Critical hit chance/damage (magic).

Constitution : HP, Charisma, Plenty of resistances (physical), Damage absorption (melee/ranged/magic), Cost of movement.



***magic also take into account the "natural" damage such as fire, or ice while poison and disease will be in physical)***

Because the interraction and dialogue are important part of the divinity game, why do not put a kind of "social" stat? that could affect charisma and "persuasion" (stat that can offer you new possibilities of answer and so, new options, like for example if you ar in prison you can convince the guard to release you)

EDIT : I like the post of PUVer for this "social" stat

Last edited by Chaotica; 17/01/13 12:22 AM.

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Chaotica #460443 17/01/13 06:33 PM
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Polite, thoughtful discussion on stats. Here is my take on it:

Strength:
1) Increased Melee Damage.
(You can be very strong but still have retarded accuracy... think about a 120kg body builder vs a 70kg martial artist... if the body builder hits, it hurts... but a martial artist can do more damage consistently)

2) Increased Armor Penetration with Melee(more than perception) and Ranged Weapons(less than perception) OR increased damage done with critical hits (melee/ranged).
If different types of physical damage are implemented, crushing weapons can have highest armor piercing per point of strength with highest Action Point cost, slashing the lowest with Lowest Action Point cost, and piercing in between. Bows would be piercing I guess, dependent on ammo (Hardened Bodkins for piercing, Broadheads for slashing. Can adapt/expand from WIKIPEDIA! ). Although if this is too much to balance-out given the focus on magical damage types and budget constraints... just scrap armor penetration and give Strength +% damage done with critical hits.

3) Increased Capacity to Carry.

4) Special intimidate conversation options.

5) min STR req for heavy armor/melee weapons/shields


Dexterity:
1) Minor Increase in max Action Points

2) Increased Ranged Damage

3) Increased Chance to hit with Melee/Ranged Weapons (equal weight-age with perception)

4) Increased Chance for hostile ranged/melee attacks to miss.(Evasion? Armor Class?)

5) min Dex req for Ranged Weapons


Intelligence:
1) Increased Magic Power (can be magnitude of damage dealt/healing done, and duration for blessings caused/curses caused)

2) Increased MP

3) Increased chance to hit critically with attack magic (assuming Magic always hits unless an active defensive skill causes otherwise)

4) Special Charm/Persuade Conversation options (equal weight-age with perception).

5) min INT req for fancy enchanted jewelry.


Constitution:
1) Increased Hp (HP regen in field)

2) Increased resistance to poison damage(for both DoT and base poison damage attacks) and Minor Increased resistance to physical damage (all 3 types if implemented).

3) Decreased chance for hostile status effects to succeed ( like poisoned/burnt/frozen/stunned/knockdown NOT charm/fear/demoralized/berserk/silence).

4) Decreased Action Point/turn cost to recover from stunning/knockdown/poison/burn/freeze/intoxication.

5) Decrease Action point cost to use melee/ranged weapons and non magic skills (assuming non-magic active skills don't cost MP. Alternatively, could reduce MP cost for non-magic active skills)


Perception:
1) Increased Chance to hit with Melee/Ranged Weapons (equal weight-age with dexterity)

2) Increased Armor Penetration with Melee(less than strength) and Ranged Weapons(more than strength) OR increased chance to hit critically (melee/ranged). See Point 2 in Strength.

3) Increased Chance to Block melee/ranged attacks (with Shields)/ Deflect.

4) Special Charm/Persuade Conversation options. Also stat check to determine whether enemy can be ambushed in certain encounters.

5) Increase in Range of Ranged Weapons.


Speed:
1) Increased Max Action Points.

2) Increased Action Points gained per turn.

3) Higher Initiative in Combat.

4) Reduced Action Point Cost of Movement in combat.

5) Reduced Action point cost of using items in combat.


Willpower:
1) Increased Resistance to elemental damage (fire/ice/earth/thunder)

2) Decreased chance for hostile status effects to succeed ( like charm/fear/demoralized/berserk/silence NOT poisoned/burnt/frozen/stunned/knockdown).

3) Decreased Action Point/turn cost to recover from charm/fear/demoralized/berserk/silence/intoxication.

4) Reduced MP cost of magic Skills.

5) Special Conversation options to endure torture/blackmail?


About abilities:

lock-picking/pickpocketing/disarm traps could be skill points invested in that particular ability + Dexterity + Perception (weight-age of these for balancing?)

trading/convincing could be skill points invested in that particular ability + Intelligence + Perception (weight-age of these for balancing?)

luck could be proportional to skill points invested in a passive skill (something along the lines of divine favor? :P ) + Perception + Intelligence (sometimes luck is just subconscious analysis and reflex action WIKIPEDIA!! ) (weight-age of these for balancing?)


...

Chaotica #460451 17/01/13 11:16 PM
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All the neat ideas in this thread have made me think about revising my initial idea with more specifics. I'll probably post that soon.


Originally Posted by Chaotica
in my opinion, you usually have 3 "kind" of characters : wizzard, rogue, warrior, and each of this kind will privilege stats regarding to their "kind" (of course, in divinity the interesting point is that you can mix thos kind). a

As I can guess, a wizzard will favor intelligence, while a rogue will favor dexterity speed and perhaps perception, and a warrior will favor strength and constitution, so this is not balance.
to my mind, perception and speed should be under stats of dexterity (or strength for the speed). sh the 4 main stats should be :
Strength
Dexterity
Intelligence
Constitution

<snip>

EDIT : I like the post of PUVer for this "social" stat


That's almost like Divine Divinity, but I want to point out that the way you've got it set up, it's still imbalanced. Here's why: In Divine Divinity, Strength and Dexterity were the only two primary attributes. Intelligence and Constitution were only used to increase your mana and hit points respectively. Magic damage was fixed in Divine Divinity.

Using those same four attributes in a game where magic damage is variable based on Intelligence, and having Intelligence also still increase mana is the imbalance. If you used the Divinity 2 model, which added Spirit as the mana-increasing-only attribute, then it would be a bit more balanced.

Speaking of PUVer's social stat idea, I sat down and tried to figure out a way to tie all the currently planned attributes to contribute to a particular social stats. This was just an exercise, I don't think it would actually be workable as a game mechanic.

Strength - Intimidation
Dexterity - Humour (taunting / softening up a gruff person)
Intelligence - Persuasion
Speed - Flattery (rather weak)
Perception - Deception (lying/detecting lies)
Willpower - Promises/Sincerity (?) (This is a tough one)

Finding 6 possible social stats was tough, and not all are equal. This also certainly too deep for this kind of game to implement, but it was an interesting mental exercise.


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Originally Posted by Stabbey


Strength - Intimidation
Dexterity - Humour (taunting / softening up a gruff person)
Intelligence - Persuasion
Speed - Flattery (rather weak)
Perception - Deception (lying/detecting lies)
Willpower - Promises/Sincerity (?) (This is a tough one)



Unefortunately I do not like this idea of stereotyping the character, I mean we can have a sweet srtong warrior and a severe wizzard, that is the idea of larian's games !! We are our choice, our acts, we are what we chose to be, there is no predefined character, only the character we want and our beahviour influence the world around us


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Chaotica #460459 18/01/13 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Chaotica
Originally Posted by Stabbey


Strength - Intimidation
Dexterity - Humour (taunting / softening up a gruff person)
Intelligence - Persuasion
Speed - Flattery (rather weak)
Perception - Deception (lying/detecting lies)
Willpower - Promises/Sincerity (?) (This is a tough one)



Unefortunately I do not like this idea of stereotyping the character, I mean we can have a sweet srtong warrior and a severe wizzard, that is the idea of larian's games !! We are our choice, our acts, we are what we chose to be, there is no predefined character, only the character we want and our beahviour influence the world around us


That's a good point, and I'm not really in favour of my own thought experiment there. But from the developer comments in the thread, adding in a bunch of social stats is definitely out of the question, it's too much work. Maybe for a game that was mostly dialogue-based with almost no combat, but that is not this game. That's one of the reasons why I suggested tying bonuses to certain things to existing stats. So instead of a bunch of social stats, the best I can think to come up with is to have multiple non-attribute based conversation options, and based on your attribute levels, there could occasionally be special conversation options, like in Fallout and similar games.


* * * * *

Here's my second attempt at a list of the attributes and what they affect:

Because of the idea floated that bonuses on equipment could be used to fill in gaps in your attribute spread, I’m now less in favour of minimum attribute requirements for equipment. If you are going to put in minimum attribute requirements for equipment, then please decouple the available attributes from the equipment type.

For example, in Divinity 2, Warhammers were the mage type weapon. Random found or store-bought ones had bonuses to magical stats, and only magical stats. The Dragon Knight Saga version also had no minimum attribute requirement, which meant that it didn’t matter. However, if you’re going to have mandatory minimum requirements for equipment, then I want all types of bonuses available to any kind of gear. If Intelligence bonuses are found only on circlets that require a minimum Intelligence to wear, then they’re of no use in filling in a gap in my stats.

Strength
• Melee Damage
• Melee Critical Hit Damage
• Weight / Carrying Capacity
• Conversation Option: Intimidate
• Lowers Action Point (AP) cost for Heavy Weapons
• Heavy Item Throwing Proficiency
• Minimum requirements for certain types of Armor/Weapon

Dexterity
• Ranged Damage
• Ranged Critical Hit Damage
• Lowers AP cost for Light Weapons
• Melee Weapon Evasion (50%)
• Melee Weapon To-Hit Chance
• Minimum requirements for certain types of Weapon
(The (50%) means that this stat accounts for 50% of the calculation for the evasion chance)

Intelligence
• Magic Damage
• Magic Critical Hit Damage
• Conversation Option: Intelligence/Persuasion
• Mana Points
• Lowers AP cost for offensive spells
• Minimum requirements for certain types of Clothing/Weapon
• Spell Evasion (if applicable. (50%))


Speed
• Melee Critical Hit Chance
• Action Point recharge rate? (The need for this might not exist. I think Fallout 1/ 2 had you get full AP back at the start of your next turn.)
• Evasion to all attack types (50%)
• Lowers AP cost for Ranged Weapons
• Conversation Option: Bluff

Perception
• Ranged Weapon Evasion (50%)
• Ranged Weapon To-Hit Chance
• Ranged Critical Hit Chance
• Lockpicking (Skill instead?)
• Trap Detection (Skill instead?)
• Lowers AP cost for lockpicking/disabling devices (if applicable)
• Sight / Hearing
• Conversation Option: Awareness

Willpower
• Magic Critical Hit Chance
• Lowers duration of debuffs
• Lowers AP cost for defensive spells
• Lowers AP cost for recovering from certain debilitating mental (magical) statuses (good idea, Chaotic Heretic)


Constitution
• Hit Points
• Resistance to Poison
• Lowers magnitude of debuffs
• Lowers AP cost for recovering from certain non-magical debilitating physical statuses (good idea, Chaotic Heretic)


Secondary Attributes

Charisma – Modifies the dice rolls in conversations where your party member disagrees. Based on Intelligence (33%), Perception (33%), and Strength (33%)

Resistances – Reduces the damage done. Based on Constitution (40%) and
• Melee Damage – Strength (60%)
• Ranged Damage – Dexterity (60%)
• Magic Damage – Intelligence (60%)

Luck – A little bonus to pretty much everything. I have no idea what a good way to determine it would be, or even if it should be determined at all.

Initiative – The character’s place in the turn order. Affected by Speed (50%), Perception (25%), and Willpower (25%).

Action Points – The amount of action points you get per level. Increased by Dexterity (67%) and Constitution (33%). This could be a way of restricting higher level weapons and spells, if you don't start out with enough AP and need to gain levels to get enough to use or cast something.

Cost of Movement – The amount of movement distance you get per action point. Increased by Speed (67%) and Strength (33%)





Joram #460618 28/01/13 01:30 PM
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I'm late to the party but I just want to give my two cents even though some of them echo previous users' thoughts. Just focusing on the primary stats.

Strength
How physically strong your character is, the amount of force of an attack i.e. how much damage it does IF it hits, not your ability to hit something as commonly seen in RPGs. Strong characters should also be able to wear heavier armour with less penalties (on action points for example).
Outside of combat this is used for anything physical, eg. lifting things, breaking doors, etc.

Dexterity
How skillful a character is, this should be for determining a characters ability to hit for both melee and ranged weapons, however if I learn how to use a sword that does not mean I am automatically skillful with a spear or even a bow, so I would like to see this weapon specific but that's probably not feasible. It should also affect things like disarming traps, opening locks, etc. as you need to be skilled in such matters to solve them, again this is a specific type of dexterity though so would need to be combined with secondary skills.

Intelligence
This should not be limited to magic users/number of spells etc. (I want to say it affects a character's ability to perceive things but I guess Perception does that.) Intelligence should also affect things like the number of skills one can learn and how quickly they can learn new skills. Like dexterity, it should be necessary for skills such as opening locks and disarming traps.

Speed
How agile a character is, this could determine the number of action points available and also the consumption of action points. It should also determine the order of movement for turn-based parts. A character with high speed should also be harder to hit.

Perception
This is an unusual one, a characters ability to sense things outside of the ordinary. Magic users possibly need to have a high in order to be able to know about and use magic. It also sounds like it would be useful for detecting hidden creatures. I like the sound of it.

Constitution
How tough a character is. I don't particularly like this as a core statistic or the idea of hit-points but it does make things easier. Still, it you're hit by a sword I don't care how tough you are, armour is far more important.

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Oops, in my post just above, thinking on it now, the "Lowers AP cost for" should be swapped for Speed and Dexterity.

I was also thinking about if the stat Constitution is really needed, and if all the HP growth could be the same, but that won't work, it makes weaker weapons too powerful if everyone is equally squishy.

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On Kickstarter You mentioned You're looking for more feedback on stats, so here's my 10 cents on which primary stats should affect which secondary stats (and other things).

I'll treat "chance to be hit" as some kind of block/parry, to separate it from Evade.

Strength - I see it as muscle power
- charisma
- physical resistances (for effects like paralysis or poison)
- Chance to hit (melee) | more for heavier weapons
- Damage (melee) | more for heavy/blunt weapons
- Dmage (ranged) - with greater bows
- ability to use heavier weapons (including greater bows) and armor
- chance to be hit
- Cost of movement (indirectly - I think cost of movement should be based on encumbrance and more Strength = less encumbrance)

Dexterity - I see it as ability to move Your limbs (both arms and legs) with required precision
- chance to hit (melee) | more for lighter weapons
- Damage (melee) | more for lighter/bladed weapons
- chance to hit (ranged)
- chance to be hit
- Evade
- Cost of movement (slighty) | more precise footwork can help movement on rough terrain
- Critical hit chance
- critical hit damage

Intelligence - I see it as ability to think analytically and a kind of "power of the mind"
- Charisma
- Willpower
- Mana/Energy (either directly or indirectly - something like spells lowering their mana cost with higher INT, maybe?)
- mental resistances
- Critical hit chance | as in knowing the weak points of enemies

Speed - I see it as reflexes and ability to move Your limbs (both arms and legs) faster
- Initiative
- Action points
- Evade
- resistances based on reflexes
- Chance to hit (melee) | for lighter weapons
- Chance to be hit(melee/ranged)

Perception - I see it as having keen senses and ability to quickly process sensory input
- mental resistances to illusion/charm
- Initiative
- Charisma
- Critical hit chance
- Critical hit damage
- Action points | as in more decisive actions
- Cost of movement
- Chance to hit (melee/ranged)
- Chance to be hit(melee/ranged)
- Evade

Constitution - I see it as toughness of the body and ability to withstand external forces
- hitpoints
- almost all resistances | except against charm/hypnosis etc.
- Willpower
- Mana/Energy | not sure how ths fits into the lore (where does magic energy come from - I assume it comes from the body and mind of the caster)
- chance to be hit | getting tired slower means better blocking

-------------------

In case You find some of these choices as odd, I can try to justify them in some way.

Last edited by Mico Selva; 02/04/13 10:21 PM.

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I agree with most of the points but I would perhaps swap speed and dexterity for the single agility as they really can come under the same skill if you are limiting skills but I don't mind seeing them separate. Luck is something I always like to have.

I see dexterity as primarily a thieves attribute enabling deft hands for pickpocketing and lockpicking, the able use of bows and the ability to dodge well.

The true meaning is being able to use the hands and body in a nimble and accurate way so I guess lockpicking makes sense but bow use could be considered perception as it's more visual and dodging could be attributed to speed as well.

Perception I see as the ability to clearly make out the surroundings, see nearby creatures better and locate hidden things and secrets or traps and also to guide missiles more accurately. It also seems to be akin to wisdom and in character dialogues perhaps perception gives more ability to see different paths of dialogue or have a better understanding of a situation.

Strength is brute strength and ability to hit hard and push items. I know strong characters generally can carry more in most games and tend to be physically more hardy with more hitpoints.
A new twist I guess would be strength of personality or forcefullness perhaps lending to intimidation or forceful talks with high willpower.

Luck is always fun and used to find more rare items, unusual happenings, secrets and aids/hinders in dealings with others and mini games. Higher magic resistance is given by luck and criticals have less chance of succeeding against higher luck values. Higher chance of performing criticals. Can be tied to Divine worship.

Intelligence is used by magic users mostly to learn all their spells from books because they have to have extreme memory skills and knowledge. I think trap users would need some intelligence too. Intelligent people are more eloquent although not always wise and not always entertaining. Intelligence grants access to extra knowledge and lore.

Speed...move fast don't get hit. Good for dodging, charging and dual wielders who don't use shields. Also great for archers. Good for all melee classes...faster you hit obviously is better but it's also good for mages I guess if you can get out the way and throw spells fast it's a plus. Obviously with speed you can travel quicker.

Endurance ...how much health you have and all resistance to damage

Initiative is based on who has higher perception, speed, luck and intelligence combined.

That's just how I see it currently.


Catelee2u #462290 08/04/13 09:18 PM
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Strength
Damage (Melee)
Weight Allowance
Hit Points
Cost of Movement

Dexterity
Damage (Ranged)
Accuracy (Melee)
Dodge (Melee)
Action Points

Intelligence
Mana
Magic Damage/Accuracy

Perception
Sight/hearing
Dodge Missile/Magic
Accuracy (Missile)
Initiative

Charisma and luck are both equal to your lowest stat.
There we go, down to 4 stats. Intelligence is the complete wizard, so long as he's happy with zero defences and going last. Warriors will want a focus on Strength and Dexterity with Perception and Intelligence as secondary for mana and missile defences. Ranged characters need Perception and Dexterity with some level of Strength to keep warriors at bay. Intrinsically warriors move fastest, Ranged types get more shots and Wizards are slow, vulnerable and don't get many turns but when they do, watch out! Charisma and luck act as a counterbalance to min/maxers.

Speed and Constitution are gone, they naturally do too little and in the end I didn't find them necessary. I'm not happy with Charisma but I'm just not sure where to put it, I'd probably be happier having it appear as a feat. One other thing, carry weight is under strength (where else?) but it always felt weird from a gameplay perspective. I'd probably weigh it (no pun intended) so it counterbalanced the weight of weapons and armour but not much else unless you over-specialised.

Kein #462306 09/04/13 02:42 AM
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I like the stats how they are now. Not everything gets better by making it more complex and confusing. In most situations in life (even in RPGs) the simple solutions are the best ones. If people have to read manuals and things like that for half an hour before the can even play the game, there are some serious flaws in the mechanics. These mechanics were ok for the old D&D games because the rules were in the background and many people already knew them but for a new game you should make the systems so complicated. Just make them meaningful. Every stat should have a real impact on gameplay, that's the most important thing imo. wink


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LordCrash #462317 09/04/13 07:11 AM
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I'm all for a simple, easy to understand system, but if it were easy to make one that hits all the right notes Larian wouldn't need to discuss this every time. You want something simple, flavourful and intuitive, as well as something that lets players specialise without forcing them down a one track road. Increasingly I'm of the opinion it's better to scrap the whole damn system and just have perk trees.

Is there a description of the system Larian are using somewhere or is it what the description in this thread describes?

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