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Well, Destello, I think, as said by some in your other thread, that the 'seeing what happens at the end of the world' thing is far from immersion-breaker, and more tangible than weather's effect.

And it's to be said that my guess is Larian finally got to marketing and put the most wanted goals higher laugh

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I'm a little shocked day/night cycles and NPC scheduals are a 1 million dollar stretch goal. Really? That's a staple of any good open world game (including the original) and I can't believe it's not in there already.

Last edited by slimgrin; 05/04/13 11:08 PM.
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I think it makes sense to have it at the top because it's a great deal of work for something that isn't really mandatory, no matter how much people insist it is.

A perk system and Henchmen -> Companions are things that will add a lot more depth and replayability to the game. The Stronghold at the End of Time isn't mandatory, but it does offer more of a thrill factor and a more tangible reward than a day/night cycle. That's why the day/night cycle has the highest requirements.

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There was a day/night cycle in Divine Divinity, but it was purely cosmetic (no NPC schedules, or changes to the environment based on the time of day).

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I'll take it even if cosmetic. It makes the environment feel alive and it's a nice touch when monster sightings are contingent to the time of day, or if spells are boosted by environmental effects (TW2). I understand that NPC scheduals are a more complicated matter.

Still surprised it's not part of the core game though.

Last edited by slimgrin; 06/04/13 04:28 AM.
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Originally Posted by slimgrin
Still surprised it's not a part of the core game though.

To clarify, we're 99% sure daytime and nighttime are in the game. Cycles is just being used as another word for schedules for npcs. A Larian employee should really clarify this in both the thread and on kickstarter to avoid this kind of confusion again :P

Edit- after reading and re-reading
Quote
The day and night cycles and the moons of Rivellon have an impact on magic and on monsters. The weather changes, and has an impact on the environment and affects magic as well.

I realized cycles were not being used in place of schedules for npcs. Its saying that the day/night cycle will affect magic via the game's moons. So I assume that just means the day/night cycles that are currently in game have no effect on magic and such.

Last edited by Affixiation; 06/04/13 01:23 AM.
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Thanks. It seems they might be in as a visual flourish with no affect on gameplay. Which is fine, and what I expected. Maybe the stretch goal is about having the cycles impact gameplay and NPC's. It is worded a little weird, they might want to clarify things a bit.

Last edited by slimgrin; 06/04/13 04:29 AM.
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I think 1M goal refers only to NPCs and skills/magic gameplay outpost.

Taking this to account, I wonder... why is so important that NPCs have any schedules at all? I understand the effect for gameplay, with magic being affected by weather or sun/moon, but, NPCs? Maybe I would give that there is some point of "inmersion" in seeing them going to sleep in a determined hour every day, but after the first time you see that, don't you feel that they are just robots doing the same things again and again? And even worse, don't you think that schedules directly affect gameplay? I don't care if an hypothetical herb seeker goes or not to do his/her job in a determined hour or day if that interferes with my quests.

Of course, it is a matter of preference, but I never felt my "inmersion" was broken because NPCs are there for gameplay or plot issues. In fact, I think that in this fashion, events develop in a more natural way.

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Originally Posted by Zerael
Maybe I would give that there is some point of "inmersion" in seeing them going to sleep in a determined hour every day, but after the first time you see that, don't you feel that they are just robots doing the same things again and again? And even worse, don't you think that schedules directly affect gameplay? I don't care if an hypothetical herb seeker goes or not to do his/her job in a determined hour or day if that interferes with my quests.


I think it's actually more robot-like for them to just stand in the exact same place 24/7 ready to sell me things in the middle of the night (visit the Ars Magicana in Divine Divinity to see what I mean).

I really appreciate day and night cycles. I like games that change the world in the night-time, with different/more powerful monsters lurking, brigands more likely to prowl, or perhaps certain disadvantages/powers given to the player at night.

I don't expect NPC schedules unless I'm playing a game that purports to immerse you in a living world (Gothic, Elder Scrolls, Witcher, Kingdoms of Amalur, Arcanum). By contrast Dragon Age had lifeless towns and static time-of-day based on region. I think Divinity 2 suffered from a lack of day and night too, though not as much.

But more important than NPC schedules is making them really important to gameplay. If NPC schedules just means I have to wait or sleep/meditate somewhere to turn in a quest, then I agree it's just annoying.

Despite the schedules in The Witcher games, most NPC's would still get out of bed in the middle of night to talk, trade and do all kinds of stuff. Some others would tell you to go away or would just be fast asleep. If they weren't at home, then you could still find them out and about and interact/advance quests. Many other quests required meeting characters at a certain place at a certain time of day. It was a decent balance (except for one quest-giver in TW1 that was only in the meeting spot for about an hour each day, and never even told you where/what time to meet him).

In Arcanum, NPC schedules meant that any sneaking, breaking in, searching, or theft, was better done at night while characters were likely to be asleep or elsewhere. Many quests called for night-time antics.

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Hello everybody!

To my mind in this case it would better to be more realistic because it seems we won`t reach 1M $
Of course as a big fan I hope very much we will,

I offer to find a compromise or the golden mean if you wish -for example to pay more attention for Day\Night Cycle and Weather System and maybe New Area that was mentioned.Look at Divine Divinity there is no any schedules but game is cool anyway If there won`t Day\Night Cycle and weather system it will be quite odd..
I think--
these things more important and organic FOR Near Future and maybe later if everything be right(who knows?) You`ll be able to add NPC`s schedules etc...IMHO

Actually I hope for the best I am praying for the Seven Gods for your success bow
maybe I should pray for Lord of Chaos for total effect? devil

Anyway Best wishes guys you are amazing people!
P.S(I hope you read this)

Last edited by James 540; 06/04/13 05:41 AM.

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yeah, I'd rather see more advanced and complex, inter-crossing quests (not main quests), when one thing leads to another, perhaps within whole story, while you play the game you keep progressing on some of there unique quests (besides simple side-quests) that may lead to new locations, may be even not just where but "when"? Interdimensional rits and timeleaps are not new for DD games.

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Personally, Day/Night cycle might be great, but not a necessary addition. But I am curious to see how the day/night and lunar cycle will affect magic...that's the only reason I am excited about the 1 million stretch goal. Won't be disappointed if it isn't reached though, as the magic system by itself is awesome.

On the other hand my thoughts on the other stretch goals:

500k : nice Suikoden (old jRPG I used to play on my PS ... I doubt anyone renumbers it) types build your base as you play.

650k: talents and traits sound a really cool way for unique character customization.

800k: Aww Yeah!!!!!! That is the stuff. henchmen with personalities. Initially, I had decided to play with only the 2 lead chars in SP, as I kinda dislike cannon-fodder companions. But this stretch goal, changes all that. Full Party..here we come laugh


...

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I'm disappointed aswell, but it was not surprising for me that those elements aren't core elements, because Larian made no secret out of that (if you have followed the updates!).

Of course I really hope that "we" reach the 1$ Million goal, because I have the strong opinion that this kind of "world simulation" aspects are needed to make the "perfect" RPG. Imho nothing is more horrible in a fantasy/rpg world than standing NPCs (at the same place the whole time) with "?" and "!" indicators over their heads. They totally break the isolution to roleplay in a different world.

But Larian is clever, I'm sure if we won't reach that Kickstarter goal they'll do some kind of compromise. Don't forget: there's always the option that the community can fix those issues with the editor (hopefully it's powerful enough to do that kind of scripting) after shipping the game.

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Here's why it will cost money to do NPC schedules right:

Originally Posted by "Larian"

@Robcat: Somebody send a personal message telling us that we're trying to exploit people by putting the schedules at the 1M tier, and I guess there might be others thinking that so I just wanted to clarify that we're looking to add in an entire system where e.g. NPCs clean up their stuff on the market before they go home to sleep, where certain creatures only come out at night and guards close the fences because they're afraid of what lurks out there etc... It requires a lot of animation, programming, scripting & testing to get this right.

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Originally Posted by Affixiation
Regardless of end funding, I suggest that they do what obsidian did during the final hours of their kickstarter: doing a livestream of them hanging about their office, answering questions and having fun.



wonderfull idea!



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I once read someone say, 'It all comes down to this. If feature X is not in the game, people will complain that X is missing. If feature X is in the game, people will complain that it shouldn't be.'


Personally, I am sure that the level of NPC interactivity, Day/Night cycle and weather already in the game is fine, however I am really hoping we get the 1M because I'm looking forward to seeing how Larian will enhance these aspects. From what I've seen so far from Original Sin, I'll bet Larian could do some pretty damn neat stuff with NPC schedules in particular, and gosh wouldn't weather/day/night stuff add another dimension to the magic-environmental interactivity?

It is my favourite stretch goal, though it is very hard to choose. Fortunately, if we get to 1M I have no problems...

One final point I'd like to make is that Larian themselves have decided that they would like to enhance these aspects, they have made it their top and most expensive goal. I bet they have some really cool ideas and I would really like to give them the opportunity to fulfil their vision.


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Okay day and night cycles and NPC schedules need money. But it needs time, too.
So Larian needs a new Release date (now: 2013).

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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Here's why it will cost money to do NPC schedules right:

Originally Posted by "Larian"

@Robcat: Somebody send a personal message telling us that we're trying to exploit people by putting the schedules at the 1M tier, and I guess there might be others thinking that so I just wanted to clarify that we're looking to add in an entire system where e.g. NPCs clean up their stuff on the market before they go home to sleep, where certain creatures only come out at night and guards close the fences because they're afraid of what lurks out there etc... It requires a lot of animation, programming, scripting & testing to get this right.


Sounds like a pain in the ass for the coders smile



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I remember weather affecting spells being mentioned already by Larian when the first short gameplay video was released. Like rain making lightning spells more effective (and making fire spells ineffective).

The thing with the moons affecting magic is likely inspired by the Goldbox Dragonlance RPGs.

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From RPGCodex:

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Larian is suffering from the classic KS malady of "need X dollars, ask for two thirds of that," so I don't think they are entirely pleased.

No. We went for 400K and had no idea how we would do. Some even thought it was too high, others thought it was too low. We had discussions about "what if we don't make it". 400K was something that we thought we could get to, given sales figures of Divinity titles in the first couple of weeks.

Then why are NPC schedules at $1M??? :smith:

Because we want to do it right. We didn't come to KS to get schedules in the game. We came to KS to get more life / things to do / more choice and consequence / extra quests / "density" in the game. If people want schedules, we cannot do that on top of all that.

We could do it the half-ass way: NPC is on market, NPC goes to bed. No matter where he is, or what he's doing, he always has the same dialogue. Still takes a bit of scripting, but it's not really cool.

If you go to sleep, you lock your house. If I wake you up in the middle of the night cause I lockpicked your door, you're not gonna go "oh hello".

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